Excess fares questions

[arb]

I've got a journey I'll be doing a few times in the next month that might require me to buy an off-route excess, depending on circumstances. The rules regarding excesses don't seem to be explained very clearly anywhere, and after reading a number of threads on here, I've got a few questions.

The details of the journey appear quite simple: an off-peak day return from Cambridge to Peterborough. The quickest (and cheapest) way of doing this journey is to get a ticket via Ely, costing £14.80. The problem arises because I won't be able to make it back to Peterborough station for my return journey until sometime between 22:00 and 22:30. The last train to Cambridge via Ely leaves at 22:14, so there's probably a 50% chance I'll miss it.

If this happens, am I right in thinking I can get an excess on my ticket so that the route is via Not London, and then catch a First Capital Connect service from Peterborough to Hitchin (exact times vary by day, but there seem to departures at approx 22:30 and approx 23:00), followed by another FCC from Hitchin to Cambridge? Or is this considered to be a situation similar to this thread, where once I miss the last train that I could have used my original ticket with, it becomes invalid, and can't be excessed any more?

Assuming I can excess the ticket, am I right in saying the cost is still half the difference in fares ( (£26.20-£14.80)/2 = £5.70 ), and that the complications described here don't apply because I'm not going overdistance, and just changing route?

Finally, how exactly should I pay for this excess? Logically, I'd try the following:

1) Pay at Peterborough ticket office. But according to this, that closes at 21:00, so it will already be closed when I arrive there.

2) Buy at a ticket machine. Do these sell excesses? I've not noticed them selling excesses before, but I can't say I've ever really looked that hard.

3) If I can't buy in the station, can I just board the train and buy from the guard? Or do I need to get a Permit to Travel because FCC operate a penalty fare scheme? I've never bought a Permit to Travel before - can I get them from ticket machines?

4) My experience of travelling with FCC is that they don't have guards, so I won't be able to pay for the excess on the train (I'll admit I only normally travel on the Cambridge to London route - so Peterborough to Hitchin might be different?)

5) It also looks like the times involved mean that I can't buy the excess whilst waiting for the connection in Hitchin (the ticket office there closes at 20:00) or after reaching Cambridge (which closes at 23:00), which I think leaves me completely out of options for paying!

Thanks for any advice.

 

[transportphoto]

Hi Arb,

Yes your calculations are correct - the XS is £5.70

If the ticket office is not open at PBO, then you have the right to board the train as the TVMs don't do XS's. You can not be Penalty Fared for being off route.

The interchange time at Hitchin is ~8 mins - you could check to see if the ticket office is open but you do not have to if doing so will delay your journey.
When you arrive at CBG, again check to see if the Ticket Office is open, if its not; don't worry as you have made every effort to pay the correct fare but its the railways fault that they haven't provided the ability for you to pay that fare. You will have done nothing wrong even though you haven't paid the correct fare.

If you get checked en-route by RPI's then they should sell you the XS you request.

 

[bb21]

Or is this considered to be a situation similar to this thread, where once I miss the last train that I could have used my original ticket with, it becomes invalid, and can't be excessed any more?

Do tickets become invalid after the last 'correct' journey departs? My understanding is that it expires only at 0230 the day after the final day of validity, if you have not yet started your journey.

 

[yorkie]

The excess can be paid on the train or at the ticket office.

There is no obligation to get this excess from the ticket office, the excess fare is the same regardless of whether is or isn't opportunity to pay before boarding.

Over-distance is different, you should get that excess before boarding. But for off-route it's fine to board.

 

[John @ home]

The last train to Cambridge via Ely leaves at 22:14, so there's probably a 50% chance I'll miss it.

If this happens, am I right in thinking I can get an excess on my ticket so that the route is via Not London, and then catch a First Capital Connect service from Peterborough to Hitchin

Yes. In addition, from 18 January 2011 the right to travel via Stevenage was restored.

700070 Customers may double back between Hitchin and Stevenage.

http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/easements.pdf

Unfortunately some journey planners have not yet been updated to show this, but you are now allowed, for example, to take:

22:59 Peterborough - Stevenage 23:33 East Coast
23:42 Stevenage - Cambridge 00:29 FCC

is this considered to be a situation ... where once I miss the last train that I could have used my original ticket with, it becomes invalid, and can't be excessed any more?

No. The restriction for an Off-Peak Day Return (CDR) Cambridge - Peterborough route Ely includes

Off-Peak Day Singles and Returns, GroupSave Day Returns: Valid for travel on the date shown on the ticket and until 0230 the following day. If it is not possible to complete the journey before this time, travel is allowed until 1200 the day after travel – but no further break of journey is allowed.

so the ticket is still valid for travel at the times you indicate.

The restriction for a Super Off-Peak Return (SSR) Cambridge - Peterborough route Not London includes

Return portions of Super Off-Peak Return tickets are valid for travel until 0230 on the day following the last day of validity (i.e. one calendar month from outward journey). If a passenger is still travelling at 0230, they may stay on the train to complete that part of the journey but no further break of journey is allowed and all travel must be completed by 1200.

Assuming I can excess the ticket, am I right in saying the cost is still half the difference in fares ( (£26.20-£14.80)/2 = £5.70 ), and that the complications described here don't apply because I'm not going overdistance, and just changing route?

That is my understanding. As far as I can determine, the rules for changing a ticket to travel by a more expensive route remain:

National Rail Conditions of Carriage (NRCoC), Condition 13, permits customers to travel by a different route, from the one stated on the ticket or allowed by conditions of the National Routeing Guide, to make their journey on payment of an Excess fare. The Excess fare is calculated as follows:

Single tickets
The difference between the price already paid and price of the cheapest Single ticket, available for immediate travel, that allows the customer to travel on the route and Train Company of their choice.

Return tickets - change of route in both directions
The difference between the price already paid and price of the cheapest Return ticket, available for immediate travel, that allows the customer to travel on the route and Train Company of their choice.

Return tickets - change of route in one direction only
Half the difference between the price already paid and price of the cheapest Return ticket, available for immediate travel that allows the customer to travel on the route and Train Company of their choice.

Finally, how exactly should I pay for this excess?

The booking office is expected to be closed, and NRCoC Condition 13 would make you liable to pay an excess fare. You should pay the first authorised fare collector you encounter on the return leg of your journey.

13. The route you are entitled to take
e. If you make your journey by a route other than those referred to in (a) and (b) above, you will be liable to pay an excess fare. This excess fare will be the difference between the price paid for the ticket you hold and the price of the lowest priced ticket(s) available for immediate travel that would have entitled you to travel by that route.