Excess Fares on time restricted tickets

[Urban Gateline]

I'm sure this has been covered before, however I can't seem to find a topic on it. Controversially I believe the ticket office staff at my station may be incorrectly dealing with time restricted tickets.

I work on the Gateline as you may well know, and often in the morning peak you get passengers with super off-peak or off-peak tickets who wish to travel, however their ticket is not valid at that time. (Yes I know the local restrictions, so I do allow anyone to pass if their ticket really is valid)

I refer such passengers to the ticket office when their ticket is not valid at the current time, however the member of staff there says excess fares cannot be done to change these to a valid off-peak or anytime ticket! Therefore a brand new ticket is sold to the passenger at full price, which mostly costs more than an excess fare would have cost.

I have read the relevant part of "The Manual" and nowhere does it say that an excess cannot be issued in such cases, indeed it gives instructions on how to actually issue an excess with time restricted tickets, as we all know it can get complicated with return tickets!

The Excess Fare to charge before travel, or on board the train when there was “no opportunity to buy” before boarding
General Principles

The Excess fare to charge is the difference between the price of the ticket held and the price of the cheapest ticket(s) available for immediate travel on the chosen service.

The cheapest available ticket(s) suitable for the journey being made may vary, depending on the specific train, time of day or day of week on which customers wish to travel. The cheapest ticket could be an Anytime, Off-Peak or Super Off-Peak ticket. It will never be an Advance ticket.

Normal discounts apply to children (aged 5-15 inclusive) and Railcard holders.

National Rail Conditions of Carriage, Condition 12 allows customers to travel on a day or train on which their ticket is not valid, on payment of an Excess fare, providing there is no change to the originating and destination station shown on the ticket. The excess should be calculated as follows:
Single tickets

The difference between the price already paid and price of the cheapest Single ticket, available for immediate travel, that allows the customer to travel on the chosen service.
Return tickets - change of travel in one or both directions

The difference between the price already paid and price of the cheapest Return ticket, available for immediate travel, that allows the customer to travel on the chosen service. For change of travel in one direction only, it may be cheaper to sell a new appropriate Single fare, however if the customer is on the outward leg of the Return ticket, the return leg of the original Return ticket will remain subject to the original restrictions.

Travel when not valid for time, day or train (Excess paid before travel, or on board the train where there was “no opportunity to buy” before boarding)

Single Tickets:

Off-Peak / Off-Peak Day:

Charge the difference between the fare paid and the appropriate Single fare.


Super Off-Peak / Super Off-Peak Day:


1) If Off-Peak are valid on the train


Charge the difference between the fare paid and the Off-Peak Single.


2) If Off-Peak are not valid on the train


Charge the difference between the fare paid and the appropriate Single fare.


Advance

Charge £10 admin fee plus the difference between the fare paid and the cheapest Single fare available for immediate travel on the journey being made (provided the time of the reservable leg has not yet passed).



Travel when not valid for time, day or train (Excess paid before travel, or on board the train where there was “no opportunity to buy” before boarding)

Return Tickets

a) Travel in one direction

Off-Peak / Off-Peak Day


Charge the difference between the fare paid and the appropriate Return fare. If cheaper, customer may prefer a new appropriate Single fare (but any return leg will remain subject to restrictions).

Super Off-Peak / Super Off-Peak Day


1) If Off-Peak are valid on the train


Charge the difference between the fare paid and the Off-Peak Return fare. If cheaper, customer may prefer a new appropriate Single fare (but any return leg will remain subject to restrictions).


2) If Off-Peak are not valid on the train


Charge the difference between the fare paid and the appropriate Return fare. If cheaper, customer may prefer a new appropriate Single fare (but any return leg will remain subject to restrictions).

b) Travel in both directions

Off-Peak / Off-Peak Day

Charge the difference between the fare paid and the appropriate Return fare.

Super Off-Peak / Super Off-Peak Day


1) If Off-Peak are valid on the train

Charge the difference between the fare paid and the Off-Peak Return fare.


2) If Off-Peak are not valid on the train


Charge the difference between the fare paid and the appropriate Return fare.

Maybe I have interpreted "The Manual" incorrectly? However it seems clear that excess fares should be issued in such cases?

I guess I am just looking for clarification on the matter, as I do not wish to get any of my colleagues into any bother, it is more for my own knowledge!

 

[Be3G]

You are absolutely correct – even the NRCoC say that an excess should be charged, and they're the terms of the contract itself that the train operating companies and their customers have to adhere to. It's an unfortunate (and oft-discussed here) fact that few ticket office staff understand excesses, if they're even aware of their existence.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I refer such passengers to the ticket office when their ticket is not valid at the current time, however the member of staff there says excess fares cannot be done to change these to a valid off-peak or anytime ticket!

I suggest that you drop in to the office sometime and make a bit of a fool of yourself by admitting that you'd always known that Off-Peak tickets couldn't be excessed to the equivalent for the same journey which is available for travel during the 'peak', but . . .
some (imaginary) passing member of staff from another Company had just been told that the Manual is now telling ticket sellers to do it.

Be indignant that 'the Company' hadn't told you that the rules had changed.
Be fuming that you all have to hear your own Company's annoying policy changes from someone working for the competition.
Ask if any of them are as angry as you that they hadn't been told either.
Complain about any 3 other arbitrary things that 'the Company' has done recently.

Then, see how many of them agree with you that 'the Company' is lousy and just changes the rules without telling the people out on the front line who have to deal with their ****.
And watch how many of them start offerring the cheaper option of an excess,- not because it's in the Manual, but just to spite their employer!

I suggest that you don't mention that you've been reading up on the Manual, nor that you'd sent any passengers their way, and definitely not that you read this on an internet forum.

Worth a punt?

 

[Urban Gateline]

Thank you both!

I suggest that you drop in to the office sometime and make a bit of a fool of yourself by admitting that you'd always known that Off-Peak tickets couldn't be excessed to the equivalent for the same journey which is available for travel during the 'peak', but . . .
some (imaginary) passing member of staff from another Company had just been told that the Manual is now telling ticket sellers to do it.

Be indignant that 'the Company' hadn't told you that the rules had changed.
Be fuming that you all have to hear your own Company's annoying policy changes from someone working for the competition.
Ask if any of them are as angry as you that they hadn't been told either.
Complain about any 3 other arbitrary things that 'the Company' has done recently.

Then, see how many of them agree with you that 'the Company' is lousy and just changes the rules without telling the people out on the front line who have to deal with their ****.
And watch how many of them start offerring the cheaper option of an excess,- not because it's in the Manual, but just to spite their employer!

I suggest that you don't mention that you've been reading up on the Manual, nor that you'd sent any passengers their way, and definitely not that you read this on an internet forum.

Worth a punt?

As always, DaveNewcastle has come up with an intelligent solution!

 

[Clip]

I suggest that you drop in to the office sometime and make a bit of a fool of yourself by admitting that you'd always known that Off-Peak tickets couldn't be excessed to the equivalent for the same journey which is available for travel during the 'peak', but . . .
some (imaginary) passing member of staff from another Company had just been told that the Manual is now telling ticket sellers to do it.

Be indignant that 'the Company' hadn't told you that the rules had changed.
Be fuming that you all have to hear your own Company's annoying policy changes from someone working for the competition.
Ask if any of them are as angry as you that they hadn't been told either.
Complain about any 3 other arbitrary things that 'the Company' has done recently.

Then, see how many of them agree with you that 'the Company' is lousy and just changes the rules without telling the people out on the front line who have to deal with their ****.
And watch how many of them start offerring the cheaper option of an excess,- not because it's in the Manual, but just to spite their employer!

I suggest that you don't mention that you've been reading up on the Manual, nor that you'd sent any passengers their way, and definitely not that you read this on an internet forum.

Worth a punt?

I like you style


Urban Gateline do you work for SWT? If so that is lousy training for your place of work and something ive not often come across when having to use one of your ticket offices as Ive found them always genned up on stuff

 

[Urban Gateline]

I like you style


Urban Gateline do you work for SWT? If so that is lousy training for your place of work and something ive not often come across when having to use one of your ticket offices as Ive found them always genned up on stuff

Glad to hear of your positive experiences, I do indeed work for SWT! If my Gateline ticket training is anything to go by, it would certainly be classed as "lousy", only one day we had on it and the rest we had to learn from experience!

 

[Clip]

Glad to hear of your positive experiences, I do indeed work for SWT! If my Gateline ticket training is anything to go by, it would certainly be classed as "lousy", only one day we had on it and the rest we had to learn from experience!

I can only imagine - thes are valid this time, these after. Check the date is valid too.

heres your key , have fun.



Something like that?

 

[island]

Sadly this is what SWT customers must put up with

 

[jb]

Worth a punt?

Fabulous.