Exact Fare Only Buses

[WelshBluebird]

What is quite interesting as that some of the main exact fare operators are some of the most successful operators in the country, the ones that are overseeing growing networks and regularly winning awards. So it can’t be seen as a barrier to the travel in reality.

Of course, just as with many rail journeys, I don't think you can use the "people use it so nothing is wrong with it" argument here. People have to travel. In many areas, there is just one company that provides bus services between two points. If you want to travel, then you have to use that service even if you would rather not.

 

[Wirewiper]

By the time London's buses stopped taking cash in June 2014, just 1% of fares were paid this way - by observation, this seemed to be mainly people who had let their Oyster Cards run out of credit, so a delay would ensue whilst said people rummaged around in their purses/wallets for the fare they were not expecting to pay. When London's buses went cashless it became possible to go into negative credit for one journey only - a warning beep sounds and the passenger is issued with a paper reminder ticket from the ticket machine. And this is never an issue with contactless cards as these are not reliant on you being in credit with TfL - if your bank account is already overdrawn, travelling on a London bus just makes it £1.50 more so.

So for that miniscule number of people who do not have a contactless card, a paper Travelcard, an Oyster card, or an ENCTS pass (which are valid 24 hours on London Buses), the last resort is to buy a £5 one-day Bus & Tram Pass from an Underground Station or any Oyster Ticket stop.

Please can we have no more moans about London's buses not accepting cash. It really is not a problem.

 

[Darklord8899]

Come on, it isn't that slow! Most cash fares take no longer than the painfully slow process of getting a concessionary pass to 'beep', or taking a contactless payment - that always shocks me, everywhere else it takes a split second but on a bus the machines seem to take forever. In today's world, the options should be either take cash and offer change, or go cashless. Smart card, contactless etc are all available to operators who really don't want the hassle of cash. The reality of exact fare polciy is that there is a minority of operators want the cash trade, but who can't be bothered to reciprocate with the basic customer service measure of offering change in reply. It's incredibly 1970s and smacks of the dreadfully old fashioned attitude that buses are for those who don't have a choice. I've never used an exact fares network, and as a relative 'youngster' (ish!) I find the idea totally bizarre. It's my generation and those after me that public transport needs to win over, yet how many people in their 30s or under are walking about with a bus fare in exact change in their pocket? I can tell you the answer is not many! An awful lot tend not to use cash, and where they do it'll have just come out of a cashpoint and be in note form. At which point, "sorry mate we don't give change" starts become a bit of a turn-off.

Sadly, the reality of accepting cash and giving change leads to the possibility of some junkie or jakey trying to steal the cash, nae chance of that with a vault that the driver has no access to.

 

[robertclark125]

Wow! Time saving indeed!

Preston bus is exact fare. During the brief period of stagecoach ownership the policy was abandoned but prior to the sale to rotala the policy had to be reintroduced.

I was surprised to learn Preston bus even adopt the policy on tendered services unless the local authority had gave it the ok.

In the middle 1990s strathtay buses, now part of stagecoach, ran the evening tendered journeys on dundee City routes 7 8 36 and 37. To comply with the contract terms the journeys were ran as exact fare. As a result a fleet of Leyland tigers and leopards had fare boxes installed.

 

[Busaholic]

Preston bus is exact fare. During the brief period of stagecoach ownership the policy was abandoned but prior to the sale to rotala the policy had to be reintroduced.

I was surprised to learn Preston bus even adopt the policy on tendered services unless the local authority had gave it the ok.

In the middle 1990s strathtay buses, now part of stagecoach, ran the evening tendered journeys on dundee City routes 7 8 36 and 37. To comply with the contract terms the journeys were ran as exact fare. As a result a fleet of Leyland tigers and leopards had fare boxes installed.

From what I remember, Preston Corporation were among the very first to introduce the exact fare system and did so very soon after the conversion of their first few routes to opo. It didn't happen in 1970 when the P1/P3 were converted to Panther operation, which I remember, and they were among the first to be converted, but happened not too long after.

 

[Antman]

By the time London's buses stopped taking cash in June 2014, just 1% of fares were paid this way - by observation, this seemed to be mainly people who had let their Oyster Cards run out of credit, so a delay would ensue whilst said people rummaged around in their purses/wallets for the fare they were not expecting to pay. When London's buses went cashless it became possible to go into negative credit for one journey only - a warning beep sounds and the passenger is issued with a paper reminder ticket from the ticket machine. And this is never an issue with contactless cards as these are not reliant on you being in credit with TfL - if your bank account is already overdrawn, travelling on a London bus just makes it £1.50 more so.

So for that miniscule number of people who do not have a contactless card, a paper Travelcard, an Oyster card, or an ENCTS pass (which are valid 24 hours on London Buses), the last resort is to buy a £5 one-day Bus & Tram Pass from an Underground Station or any Oyster Ticket stop.

Please can we have no more moans about London's buses not accepting cash. It really is not a problem.

The loss of revenue is a problem.

All to often passengers with no credit on their oyster card travel free as there is no option to pay cash.

 

[Robertj21a]

The loss of revenue is a problem.

All to often passengers with no credit on their oyster card travel free as there is no option to pay cash.

They shouldn't be. I doubt that it is very much of a problem in the big scale of things. It will be difficult to survive in London without a debit card and many of those are now contactless.

 

[PeterC]

They shouldn't be. I doubt that it is very much of a problem in the big scale of things. It will be difficult to survive in London without a debit card and many of those are now contactless.

I bought a sandwich a few weeks ago in Camden Town. The guy in the shop seemed to think it really weird that I wanted to pay with cash.

 

[TUC]

It is noticeable that exact fare predominated im mumicipal/PTE areas and has tended (though not exclusively) to persist where there is limited competition. A classic case of where complacency leads to putting organisational convenience over the needs of the customer.

 

[Antman]

They shouldn't be. I doubt that it is very much of a problem in the big scale of things. It will be difficult to survive in London without a debit card and many of those are now contactless.

I see it often on TfL buses, somebody touches in with an invalid oyster but travels anyway.

 

[Dai Corner]

It is noticeable that exact fare predominated im mumicipal/PTE areas and has tended (though not exclusively) to persist where there is limited competition. A classic case of where complacency leads to putting organisational convenience over the needs of the customer.

Indeed. Newport Transport being a perfect example as I noted in my opening post. Though to be fair (pun intended) they are now apparently in talks with suppliers of contactless systems.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I bought a sandwich a few weeks ago in Camden Town. The guy in the shop seemed to think it really weird that I wanted to pay with cash.

Was in Cornwall a few weeks ago and there’s a chain of shops that flog paintings, prints and greetings cards (yeah, I know - hardly life’s essentials) but they don’t take cash at all - just card payments.

 

[Busaholic]

Was in Cornwall a few weeks ago and there’s a chain of shops that flog paintings, prints and greetings cards (yeah, I know - hardly life’s essentials) but they don’t take cash at all - just card payments.

Conversely, an antique shop I know that's been under the same ownership for forty years, where the average price is in the hundreds, takes no cards!

 

[Robertj21a]

Conversely, an antique shop I know that's been under the same ownership for forty years, where the average price is in the hundreds, takes no cards!

Better get what you want quickly, it's not likely to survive much longer !

 

[Busaholic]

Better get what you want quickly, it's not likely to survive much longer !

As the owner's about 80, it might well happen because of anno domini.

 

[radamfi]

I see it often on TfL buses, somebody touches in with an invalid oyster but travels anyway.

It shouldn't really be the driver's job to enforce fare collection on busy London routes. There is effectively open boarding on New Routemasters and 507/521 routes anyway. There is always a risk of a revenue inspection, which should be the real deterrent against ticketless travel.

 

[ag51ruk]

It shouldn't really be the driver's job to enforce fare collection on busy London routes. There is effectively open boarding on New Routemasters and 507/521 routes anyway. There is always a risk of a revenue inspection, which should be the real deterrent against ticketless travel.

If that was the case, allow boarding at the centre doors on all buses. Or concentrate revenue protection on the routes where people can board by any door, and on other routes let the driver do what drivers in the rest of the country do and check tickets

 

[Zamracene749]

I absolutely agree with the supermarket trolley analogy- I reckon this should be extended to all buses. Correct coinage required use the bus/trolley. And of course, trolley style, once you return to wherever you boarded the bus earlier in the day, you get the exact change back

 

[Antman]

It shouldn't really be the driver's job to enforce fare collection on busy London routes. There is effectively open boarding on New Routemasters and 507/521 routes anyway. There is always a risk of a revenue inspection, which should be the real deterrent against ticketless travel.

Revenue inspectors are rare to non existent on TfL buses.

 

[Dentonian]

I absolutely agree with the supermarket trolley analogy- I reckon this should be extended to all buses. Correct coinage required use the bus/trolley. And of course, trolley style, once you return to wherever you boarded the bus earlier in the day, you get the exact change back

And if you aren't returning to the same location
..........

 

[Robertj21a]

Revenue inspectors are rare to non existent on TfL buses.

They exist but are 'targeted'.

 

[Antman]

They exist but are 'targeted'.

Who targets them?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Revenue inspectors are rare to non existent on TfL buses.

There are a lot more of them about on "open boarding" buses i.e. Borismasters.

 

[Antman]

There are a lot more of them about on "open boarding" buses i.e. Borismasters.

Even on them they are rare.

 

[sprunt]

There is effectively open boarding on New Routemasters and 507/521 routes anyway.

Which is ironic, given that part of the rationale for replacing the bendies with them was how easy it was to board without paying.

 

[Robertj21a]

Who targets them?

I would guess the Revenue Protection team has a fairly good idea of the most suitable places/routes to target. Why the considerable interest ?

 

[transmanche]

Which is ironic, given that part of the rationale for replacing the bendies with them was how easy it was to board without paying.

Was it? I recall the rationale being that the Borismasters would have three entrances and open boarding to make sure that they were the same as the bendybuses.

 

[PeterC]

Was it? I recall the rationale being that the Borismasters would have three entrances and open boarding to make sure that they were the same as the bendybuses.

A lot of the anti bendybus pressure was about fare dodging. Usually based on uninformed comments about the number of people who didn't touch in - ignoring the fact that it was unecessary for Travelcards and Freedom Passes.

We were told, of course, that the Borismasters would have conductors. It certainly wasn't made plain to the general public (or press) that these were nothing of the sort and were just there to tell you off if you jumped on or off the open platform between stops.

 

[Dart1]

Exact fare is safer as you don't have to carry money round like some of the big operators who you would of thought would of had exact fare & some of the smaller firms the same

 

[ValleyLines142]

Even on them they are rare.

I had two on the same day last week, one on the 21 and one on the 453.