Ex LNER (and Grand Central) Mark 4 sets for TfW

[Jamesrob637]

A friend was on 150231 from Shrewsbury to Wilmslow today and reported things as being "toasty". This was the 12:49 from Cardiff, usually booked hauled.

 

[sd0733]

No Mk4s out after next Monday with the Dinmore block.

Amended diagrams on Monday which will see 2 sets end in Holyhead. 5 sets (HD01/02/04/05/06) will finish at Crewe/Holyhead Monday night for some unspecified work at Crewe. The sets that end in Holyhead will rotate with ecs moves Crewe-Holyhead and vice versa to cycle them for exams and work.
HD07 will be at Canton.

 

[Elecman]

Was on HD02 this afternoon and the train was like being in a Sauna with nearly all the carriages Aircons failed, indeed the Buffet only opened for half an hour between Shrewsbury and a Hereford because the staff said it was too hot to work and indeed used the Sauna phrase themselves over the PA.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Was on HD02 this afternoon and the train was like being in a Sauna with nearly all the carriages Aircons failed, indeed the Buffet only opened for half an hour between Shrewsbury and a Hereford because the staff said it was too hot to work and indeed used the Sauna phrase themselves over the PA.

You’re not seriously telling me the buffet staff declared it “too hot to work” and closed - on a train that was somehow deemed fine to keep carrying passengers? That’s ridiculous on so many proportions.

That’s either extremely unprofessional of the buffet staff, or, if the train really was sweltering to the point of being “in a sauna” and thus it really genuinely becoming “too hot to work,” then the train is therefore dangerous for passengers to travel in and should surely have been cancelled or swapped. Either way, someone’s screwed up big time here.

 

[LowLevel]

You’re not seriously telling me the buffet staff declared it “too hot to work” and closed - on a train that was somehow deemed fine to keep carrying passengers? That’s ridiculous on so many proportions.

That’s either extremely unprofessional of the buffet staff, or, if the train really was sweltering to the point of being “in a sauna” and thus it really genuinely becoming “too hot to work,” then the train is therefore dangerous for passengers to travel in and should surely have been cancelled or swapped. Either way, someone’s screwed up big time here.

A mk4 is a sealed box. It becomes very hot very quickly.

No one wins in these situations.

Do you cancel the train, leaving another load of passengers to be accommodated on the next one which is quite likely to already be a full 2 car 150 at present?

Do you keep it in traffic and try your best with it and give the passengers the choice of staying on or getting off?

It isn't "fine to continue carrying passengers" in as much as the alternative might be worse.

On a roasting hot train the only people with absolutely no choice in being there are the crew. If you do decide to run it telling them to stand behind a roasting buffet counter and continue working is not the action of a reasonable employer.

Having spent yesterday inside a fairly similar 158 with no air conditioning I was about ready to pass out by the end of it, and indeed more than once I've had to carry passengers out of cooking trains into the fresh air to bring them round when they've done so.

 

[sd0733]

You’re not seriously telling me the buffet staff declared it “too hot to work” and closed - on a train that was somehow deemed fine to keep carrying passengers? That’s ridiculous on so many proportions.

That’s either extremely unprofessional of the buffet staff, or, if the train really was sweltering to the point of being “in a sauna” and thus it really genuinely becoming “too hot to work,” then the train is therefore dangerous for passengers to travel in and should surely have been cancelled or swapped. Either way, someone’s screwed up big time here.

The buffet/kitchen does get noticeably warmer than the rest of the coach when the air con is faulty. They're also standing up and with machinery and cookers chucking out heat in a much more confined space so is a lot worse than the passenger compartment.

Not sure why but over the past few days there's been far far more Air-con failures than over the other periods of hot Spells. Hopefully it's something that can be got to the bottom of in the upcoming Downtime for the fleet.

 

[43096]

You’re not seriously telling me the buffet staff declared it “too hot to work” and closed - on a train that was somehow deemed fine to keep carrying passengers? That’s ridiculous on so many proportions.

That’s either extremely unprofessional of the buffet staff, or, if the train really was sweltering to the point of being “in a sauna” and thus it really genuinely becoming “too hot to work,” then the train is therefore dangerous for passengers to travel in and should surely have been cancelled or swapped. Either way, someone’s screwed up big time here.

I take it you’ve never worked in the enclosed space of a train kitchen/buffet? It gets very hot, very quickly in a Mark 3 or Mark 4 without air conditioning - much hotter than the saloons because it is both an enclosed space and there is plenty of heat generating equipment in there.

 

[py_megapixel]

As a passenger on a train with failed AC I'd much rather the buffet closed than continued to prepare hot food, heating up the train in the process...

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

In this weather I really do think, where available, a set swap should be made for trains with failed air conditioning of such long distances.

 

[LowLevel]

In this weather I really do think, where available, a set swap should be made for trains with failed air conditioning of such long distances.

Totally agree - the problem though is the availability part, particularly for stock with restricted crew competency like the hauled sets.

 

[Speed43125]

In this weather I really do think, where available, a set swap should be made for trains with failed air conditioning of such long distances.

This happened on a pendolino i was on at Stafford on Tuesday.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

This happened on a pendolino i was on at Stafford on Tuesday.

Good that it was swapped. Pendolinos, much as I love them, are very warm trains inside even in normal circumstances with working air-con and typical British weather. I dread to think how unpleasant one would've been with no air con and outside temperatures pushing thirty.

That aside, has there been any further update on plans to livery the MK4 sets consistently? I believe last time we touched on this subject, all over black with red doors and horizontal GNER-esque stripe had been the plan? NOT, I might add, that now is the right time to be putting sets out of use for repainting.

Furthermore, is there any news on the out-of-action set whose temporary (or perhaps now permanent?) loss caused Holyhead 67-services to be reduced from 3 to 1tpd? I believe @sd0733 said that the return to 3tpd was dependant on that set's future.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Good that it was swapped. Pendolinos, much as I love them, are very warm trains inside even in normal circumstances with working air-con and typical British weather. I dread to think how unpleasant one would've been with no air con and outside temperatures pushing thirty.

That aside, has there been any further update on plans to livery the MK4 sets consistently? I believe last time we touched on this subject, all over black with red doors and horizontal GNER-esque stripe had been the plan? NOT, I might add, that now is the right time to be putting sets out of use for repainting.

Furthermore, is there any news on the out-of-action set whose temporary (or perhaps now permanent?) loss caused Holyhead 67-services to be reduced from 3 to 1tpd? I believe @sd0733 said that the return to 3tpd was dependant on that set's future.

It's all gone very quiet on HD08 so I'm not sure whether it's happening or not now.

 

[Caaardiff]

In this weather I really do think, where available, a set swap should be made for trains with failed air conditioning of such long distances.

You mean with the abundance of units TFW has at their disposal? You've answered your own point there with the "where available". There may not have been one available. Cardiff is the only place really to swap a unit, and the only other place you can take a Mk4 out of service is Crewe for their Depot, but there's no spare units hanging around there to replace it.

HD02 worked the 1249 Cardiff - Manchester then the 1630 Manchester - Swansea, a pretty busy train. The 1730 was a 2 153's, with no air con, but open windows at least.
Depends where the air con failure started but might've been too late to take out of service and send to Crewe and very unlikely a swap would be possible.

 

[43102EMR]

In this weather I really do think, where available, a set swap should be made for trains with failed air conditioning of such long distances.

It’s TfW - so it’s either keep the Mk4 in service or send in a 150

 

[sd0733]

Good that it was swapped. Pendolinos, much as I love them, are very warm trains inside even in normal circumstances with working air-con and typical British weather. I dread to think how unpleasant one would've been with no air con and outside temperatures pushing thirty.

That aside, has there been any further update on plans to livery the MK4 sets consistently? I believe last time we touched on this subject, all over black with red doors and horizontal GNER-esque stripe had been the plan? NOT, I might add, that now is the right time to be putting sets out of use for repainting.

Furthermore, is there any news on the out-of-action set whose temporary (or perhaps now permanent?) loss caused Holyhead 67-services to be reduced from 3 to 1tpd? I believe @sd0733 said that the return to 3tpd was dependant on that set's future.

Set swaps can and do happen when possible but realistically the choice is run it or cancel. If air con faults in a coach was a failure then there'd be no 158s and a lot of 175s, 197s and Mk4s missing.

There's was a tender put out for repainting as they are well overdue as part of the standard maintenance cycle, they were due at the same point the LNER sets were repainted so not entirely sure where that went.

HD08 isn't happening just yet. It's currently at Landore and last I heard it was planned to head to Holyhead for further storage. Landore work is full with 150 repair, 153/5 conversion and 175 handback so could do with it out the way.
There's no plans at present for anymore Holyhead so the 1 each way is the plan for the foreseeable future.

There are a few plans for some remedial works on sets over the next few weeks to improve reliability and availability, they're not very exciting but should assist in the running and operation of the sets. Some of which will happen in the Downtime of the Dinmore block:

-New exterior door buttons
-LED lighting in coaches
-DVT door overhauls
-Better first class branding, stickers and head rests.
PRM toilet/Vestibule door overhauls
-Coupling mods
-Air con and cooling Mods in the kitchen (being tested on HD07)
-Air con tracking so can be monitored in real time
-New water boilers, taps, ovens, chillers and induction hobs in the kitchens.
-Deep clean of the fleet
-67 Buckeye coupling removal
-67 cab roof and cab Door repairs

 

[Anonymous10]

Set swaps can and do happen when possible but realistically the choice is run it or cancel. If air con faults in a coach was a failure then there'd be no 158s and a lot of 175s, 197s and Mk4s missing.

There's was a tender put out for repainting as they are well overdue as part of the standard maintenance cycle, they were due at the same point the LNER sets were repainted so not entirely sure where that went.

HD08 isn't happening just yet. It's currently at Landore and last I heard it was planned to head to Holyhead for further storage. Landore work is full with 150 repair, 153/5 conversion and 175 handback so could do with it out the way.
There's no plans at present for anymore Holyhead so the 1 each way is the plan for the foreseeable future.

There are a few plans for some remedial works on sets over the next few weeks to improve reliability and availability, they're not very exciting but should assist in the running and operation of the sets. Some of which will happen in the Downtime of the Dinmore block:

-New exterior door buttons
-LED lighting in coaches
-DVT door overhauls
-Better first class branding, stickers and head rests.
PRM toilet/Vestibule door overhauls
-Coupling mods
-Air con and cooling Mods in the kitchen (being tested on HD07)
-Air con tracking so can be monitored in real time
-New water boilers, taps, ovens, chillers and induction hobs in the kitchens.
-Deep clean of the fleet
-67 Buckeye coupling removal
-67 cab roof and cab Door repairs

If there's aircon issues in the 197s that begs questions would think that as they're virtually new it would be pretty reliable.

 

[tiptoptaff]

If there's aircon issues in the 197s that begs questions would think that as they're virtually new it would be pretty reliable.

They are built by CAF mind....

 

[Techniquest]

If there's aircon issues in the 197s that begs questions would think that as they're virtually new it would be pretty reliable.

They've had AC issues for a long time, I absolutely melted on one the other month when we had a hot and sunny day in the summer. It was more refreshing to be outside than on a 197!

 

[Elecman]

You’re not seriously telling me the buffet staff declared it “too hot to work” and closed - on a train that was somehow deemed fine to keep carrying passengers? That’s ridiculous on so many proportions.

That’s either extremely unprofessional of the buffet staff, or, if the train really was sweltering to the point of being “in a sauna” and thus it really genuinely becoming “too hot to work,” then the train is therefore dangerous for passengers to travel in and should surely have been cancelled or swapped. Either way, someone’s screwed up big time here.

Yes that’s exactly what the staff said over the PA

 

[43102EMR]

Set swaps can and do happen when possible but realistically the choice is run it or cancel. If air con faults in a coach was a failure then there'd be no 158s and a lot of 175s, 197s and Mk4s missing.

There's was a tender put out for repainting as they are well overdue as part of the standard maintenance cycle, they were due at the same point the LNER sets were repainted so not entirely sure where that went.

HD08 isn't happening just yet. It's currently at Landore and last I heard it was planned to head to Holyhead for further storage. Landore work is full with 150 repair, 153/5 conversion and 175 handback so could do with it out the way.
There's no plans at present for anymore Holyhead so the 1 each way is the plan for the foreseeable future.

There are a few plans for some remedial works on sets over the next few weeks to improve reliability and availability, they're not very exciting but should assist in the running and operation of the sets. Some of which will happen in the Downtime of the Dinmore block:

-New exterior door buttons
-LED lighting in coaches
-DVT door overhauls
-Better first class branding, stickers and head rests.
PRM toilet/Vestibule door overhauls
-Coupling mods
-Air con and cooling Mods in the kitchen (being tested on HD07)
-Air con tracking so can be monitored in real time
-New water boilers, taps, ovens, chillers and induction hobs in the kitchens.
-Deep clean of the fleet
-67 Buckeye coupling removal
-67 cab roof and cab Door repairs

Out of interest, are HD01-03 going to receive the same interior as the ex-GC sets?

 

[GWVillager]

Out of interest, are HD01-03 going to receive the same interior as the ex-GC sets?

Almost certainly not, I should imagine. The red suits the TfW brand better than the grey/orange.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Out of interest, are HD01-03 going to receive the same interior as the ex-GC sets?

I'd like them to get some refurbishment that makes them look similar, however the orange in the GC sets has no place in the TfW brand, so I hope they go for a black/red colour scheme, if they do refurbish the interior.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Almost certainly not, I should imagine. The red suits the TfW brand better than the grey/orange.

Well you’d think, but of course the moquette on all their other stock is actually grey.

 

[sd0733]

Out of interest, are HD01-03 going to receive the same interior as the ex-GC sets?

The idea is/was that eventually all the sets will match internally and externally. At the moment the emphasis is getting them all in service and extended but once that's all complete then the outside and inside works can be done.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Piercing as it may be to some I absolutely love the unique BLEEP BLOOP BLEEP BLOOP door chime of the MK4s (fitted by Virgin Trains EC, I think) and I do hope they’re not replaced by the dreary bog-standard sound fitted to Sprinters/Desiro City/Avanti 221s or the boring beeps on the CAFs/Aventras.

 

[py_megapixel]

Piercing as it may be, I absolutely love the unique BLEEP BLOOP BLEEP BLOOP door chime of the MK4s (fitted by Virgin Trains EC, I think) and I do hope they’re not replaced by the dreary bog-standard sound fitted to Sprinters/Desiro City or that on IETs.

Interestingly, I believe that is actually closer to complying with the accessibility regulations than what they have on the Sprinters. If I may have misremembered specifics, but I believe the regulations stipulate that the door open sound must consist of 5 seconds of tones alternating between two particular pitches (though it can stop earlier if the door is fully open). Among new trains, almost nothing built before about 2014-ish is compliant with this, but almost everything afterwards (including the IETs) is.

I have no idea why all the older units - that were being modified specifically to comply with those same regulations - were fitted with that unpleasant "screech - screech - screech" sound instead of the correct tones.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I have no idea why all the older units - that were being modified specifically to comply with those same regulations - were fitted with that unpleasant "screech - screech - screech" sound instead of the correct tones.

700 and 707 were built with the same sound, just sped up and with four tones instead of three, but the later 717 has the same as 80x.

I still find the 80x chime quite boring and insignificant (and they have the same annoying door close sound as Sprinters/Turbos/old stock) It’s the MK4 one I just really like.

 

[Anonymous10]

They are built by CAF mind....

I mean yes but they're new you'd expect it to at least last a year or two....

 

[Envoy]

I bet the Saharan orange rain is showing up on the black sets.