Ex LNER (and Grand Central) Mark 4 sets for TfW

[Bald Rick]

They aren't! Definitely steel.

The bodywork isn't as good as Mk3s either - it was really noticeable on the few sets which received the first (metallic silver) iteration of the East Coast livery. That showed up every ripple.

I stand corrected, and feel I have lived a lie the last 30 years.

 

[43301]

I stand corrected, and feel I have lived a lie the last 30 years.

158s, with a similar-looking body profile, are the aluminium-bodied trains from that era.

 

[sd0733]

It wouldn't look any worse than the scratch-sets they look like at present, but they really should just paint/vinyl them into regular TfW livery instead of pratting about.



They're e-ink - in the absence of power (no doubt the batteries have run out - they're battery powered) they just keep displaying what was there before, power is required to change it. Same as e.g. a Kindle.

It would hardly be that difficult for someone to go down the train with a roll of black insulation tape and a pair of scissors to cover them up, though.

They're wired into something as there is a circuit breaker in each coach for the seat reservation system and tripping it out does nothing as like you say they are e-ink.

I was told the system was planned to be used hence it wasn't covered up and issue is that the company who ran the system wasn't interested in a contract for so few trains. Maybe now there are a few more (maybe the 197s could be included too) then it may be more viable. If its not then the easy answer to me is stick the seat numbers over the top.

 

[tomuk]

just as well the Mk4s are Aluminium!

They aren't! Definitely steel.

The bodywork isn't as good as Mk3s either - it was really noticeable on the few sets which received the first (metallic silver) iteration of the East Coast livery. That showed up every ripple.

Mk4s are steel, they are a Metro Cammell knock off of the Mk3 design, just like their 156 predecessors. Although similar to a Mk3 the structure is simplified to allow cheaper construction. They bodyshells were all built by outside contractors for completion at Washwood Heath.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They're wired into something as there is a circuit breaker in each coach for the seat reservation system and tripping it out does nothing as like you say they are e-ink.

The individual boxes aren't, they are battery powered and stuck on with double sided adhesive fixings. I believe they communicate using something like Bluetooth Low Energy with a box in the coach somewhere, which itself retrieves them from the Internet (or wherever it is), which is what will be connected to the breaker you mention. LNER made a big thing about this design when they were developed as it made the cost of installation much lower than traditional wired ones.

 

[tomuk]

The individual boxes aren't, they are battery powered and stuck on with double sided adhesive fixings. I believe they communicate using something like Bluetooth Low Energy with a box in the coach somewhere, which itself retrieves them from the Internet (or wherever it is), which is what will be connected to the breaker you mention. LNER made a big thing about this design when they were developed as it made the cost of installation much lower than traditional wired ones.

Similar ones are being fitted to the Pendolinos of refurb with seat occupation technology

 

[Bletchleyite]

Similar ones are being fitted to the Pendolinos of refurb with seat occupation technology

No, the Pendolino reservation displays are not being changed other than to convert a coach from 1st to Standard. That's the reason the seat layouts aren't changing. The seat occupation technology is wired in along the ceiling conduit, it looks like rather heavyweight CCTV (so much of it that you'd think it's reading your newspaper, which could have a security benefit if people perceive it that way) but that isn't its purpose and the images I believe aren't being recorded.

 

[CaergwrleKen]

67029 was apparently booked to travel to Landore today but ‘wasn’t ready’ to make the journey..

 

[tomuk]

No, the Pendolino reservation displays are not being changed other than to convert a coach from 1st to Standard. That's the reason the seat layouts aren't changing. The seat occupation technology is wired in along the ceiling conduit, it looks like rather heavyweight CCTV (so much of it that you'd think it's reading your newspaper, which could have a security benefit if people perceive it that way) but that isn't its purpose and the images I believe aren't being recorded.

Ah I misconstrued reports about the fitting of the seat occupation technology 'like on the east coast' as being it was carried out the same way.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Does TFW intend on introducing reservations again as they got rid of them (It's noticable how much quicker boarding is now without reservations.

Does anyone know why TfW are not currently offering reservations (seemingly on any of their services, not just the mark 4s)?

Unless they are planning to bring reservations back soon, they need to get the rail industry data systems updated because Real Time Trains (and presumably other sites) are still listing 'Reservations Available' and 'Reservations Recommended' on various TfW services. The latter is perhaps particularly galling; 'we recommend that passengers get a reservation, but we won't issue reservations'.

 

[Bletchleyite]

"Reservations available" can just mean counted places.

"Reservations recommended" when they aren't on sale is silly.

 

[markymark2000]

Unless they are planning to bring reservations back soon, they need to get the rail industry data systems updated because Real Time Trains (and presumably other sites) are still listing 'Reservations Available' and 'Reservations Recommended' on various TfW services. The latter is perhaps particularly galling; 'we recommend that passengers get a reservation, but we won't issue reservations'.

Reservations have been off since Covid. I can't remember Pre Covid, I didn't really travel much with TFW back then.

While RTT shows reservations available, when I go via LNER to book, it shows 'this train is fully reserved' and 'no reservations available'.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Reservations have been off since Covid. I can't remember Pre Covid, I didn't really travel much with TFW back then.

While RTT shows reservations available, when I go via LNER to book, it shows 'this train is fully reserved' and 'no reservations available'.

There are counted places for Advances only. TfW has it set up not to issue them to walk-up ticket holders as it'd be pointless.

 

[markymark2000]

There are counted places for Advances only.

Sorry, forgive me. what does that mean? Ensuring there is enough seats for the number of advances being sold?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sorry, forgive me. what does that mean? Ensuring there is enough seats for the number of advances being sold?

Counted places are reservations issued without a specific seat. Their main purpose is to manage quotas for Advance tickets (unrelated to the provision of physical seats), though the "pseudo compulsory reservations" TOCs also use them to "oversell" trains.

 

[markymark2000]

Counted places are reservations issued without a specific seat. Their main purpose is to manage quotas for Advance tickets (unrelated to the provision of physical seats), though the "pseudo compulsory reservations" TOCs also use them to "oversell" trains.

Thank you, much appreciated.

 

[3973EXL]

STP 16/07 5Q79 1826 Eastleigh TRSMD - Landore TMD 37901 GC01 & Spares set 37800 - terminated Dr Days - signalling issues.
12211 12434 12310 10318 11319 DVT 82201 DVT 82220 12315 10305 12304 12324 12215
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K00953/2022-07-16/detailed

VSTP 18/07 5Q79 0435 Dr Days - Landore arrived RT
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:58410/2022-07-18/detailed

 

[craigybagel]

67029 was apparently booked to travel to Landore today but ‘wasn’t ready’ to make the journey..

It went down today instead.

 

[Anonymous10]

It went down today instead.

why is it going to landore?

 

[SuperLuke2334]

It went down today instead.

Do we know why 67029 was going down? I assume it is to test some things with the sets but if anyone could confirm or correct that'd be great.

 

[GWVillager]

I have understood from elsewhere on this forum that a franchise document indicates First Class will not be offered on the Class 197s until 2025 at the earliest. As the Mark IV's are due in on the Manchester - Swansea line this year, will First Class be offered on them in the meantime or will it be declassified for the time being?

 

[Doveymain158]

I think there might be a change of plan MK4s were not part of the original plan for the Manchester’s

 

[3973EXL]

STP 27/08 1719 Eastleigh TRSMD - Landore TMD
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K03279/2022-08-27/detailed

 

[SuperLuke2334]

STP 27/08 1719 Eastleigh TRSMD - Landore TMD
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K03279/2022-08-27/detailed

Another set, excellent. Hopefully this means we'll start hearing about crew training ramping up and starting to see the new sets appearing on Holyhead Cardiffs until December when they start being introduced on Manchesters.

 

[craigybagel]

I have understood from elsewhere on this forum that a franchise document indicates First Class will not be offered on the Class 197s until 2025 at the earliest. As the Mark IV's are due in on the Manchester - Swansea line this year, will First Class be offered on them in the meantime or will it be declassified for the time being?

Like I said in the 197 thread, take everything you see as a formal plan at the start of the franchise with a pinch of salt. Many things have changed since then.

Another set, excellent. Hopefully this means we'll start hearing about crew training ramping up and starting to see the new sets appearing on Holyhead Cardiffs until December when they start being introduced on Manchesters.

It's hard to see training ramp up any more then it already is - both Crewe and Cardiff depots are hard at work getting crews trained as fast as possible. Unlike with the 197s it's harder to see it happening as they're mostly using trains in public service (or static training on depot), but pretty much every day at least one service will have trainees on - both drivers and guards.

 

[Bob Price]

Like I said in the 197 thread, take everything you see as a formal plan at the start of the franchise with a pinch of salt. Many things have changed since then.

Agree, 153's on the Heart of Wales, 170's now going, the Mk4's, none of this was planned. I notice the Flourish station has been binned as well. We will see the actual end result when it happens.

 

[craigybagel]

Agree, 153's on the Heart of Wales, 170's now going, the Mk4's, none of this was planned. I notice the Flourish station has been binned as well. We will see the actual end result when it happens.

Exactly. And speaking of changes brought about by the MKIVs, I've just posted this on the December timetable thread

I've not had the chance to go through the full TfW timetable, but there are big changes on Manchester - West Wales Services.

It remains hourly from Manchester at or around xx:30. Odd hours remain as DMUs, mostly to Carmarthen. Even hours are 67 & MKIVs, all to Cardiff only bar the 1630 to Swansea. 2232 remains as a DMU to Shrewsbury that comes from the Chester route, with the loco that arrives at 2215 running ECS to Crewe instead.

To balance it out, the DMUS seem to work Manchester - Carmarthen - Cardiff - Milford Haven - Manchester, so stations West of Carmarthen only get a service east of Cardiff in one direction (though in my experience through passenger numbers are pretty negligible anyway).

 

[Philip]

Exactly. And speaking of changes brought about by the MKIVs, I've just posted this on the December timetable thread

Aren't the DMUs for the odd hours from Manchester?

I guess once the 197s start working North Wales services, the spare 175s could be used to strengthen the Manchester-South Wales DMU diagrams until the 197s start on those routes.

 

[craigybagel]

Aren't the DMUs for the odd hours from Manchester?

Indeed, thanks for the correction. Too early in the morning for me

I guess once the 197s start working North Wales services, the spare 175s could be used to strengthen the Manchester-South Wales DMU diagrams until the 197s start on those routes.

Hard to run 175s on multiple due to the lack of SDO. The top priority will be releasing the 170s for EMR.

 

[GWVillager]

I think there might be a change of plan MK4s were not part of the original plan for the Manchester’s

Well yes precisely- how do they fit into said plan.

Like I said in the 197 thread, take everything you see as a formal plan at the start of the franchise with a pinch of salt. Many things have changed since then.

Yes, I'm sure those plans have changed at least somewhat, but that doesn't change the fact that, so long as everything continues as expected, there will be a good few months at least where the Mark 4s will be running alongside 175s with no First Class, so is there any information on whether TfW will offer First on that route with only some trains able to provide it?