EMR are to take on Voyagers 221142/143 on a short term basis from October 26th. It has been spoken about a lot recently and the recent tenders with Crosscountry left a lot of forum members feeling skeptical of this happening but it's been signed off today, so here's new thread for just that. Once EMR are finished with them they'll move to Crosscountry
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Ex GC 221s to move to EMR
- Thread starter liamf656
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tfw756rider
On Moderation
Crew training for just two units? As I don't think they can do the "222/9" trick 
Just from a spotting perspective, that's slightly annoying. If the 221 photos I had already had been at Derby or Sheffield, I'd have been tempted not to bother; I can't imagine they'd get a new livery for EMR (or, indeed, a CrossCountry rather than GBR one?) so telling the difference wouldn't have really been possible.
Two units that will only be around for 5 months...
Let's hope Hitachi are paying for this and not the taxpayer.
Rail2002
Member
Although similar, these units will not be compatible with Class 222, as they have different software.
There are differentials in the cab equipment too. For example, the speedometer is at a different angle to the Meridians. The Meridian was designed by Bombardier to have a different degree angle of speedometer to stop sunlight causing shine back.
From an Engineering point of view, I believe Voyagers carry more equipment in the roof area, rather than underfloor, as per the Meridians.
I believe train crew will require training on these units and also I believe, but could be wrong, that Voyagers have never worked to Saint Pancras, so would need to be cleared. They've worked to Paddington, Kensington Olympia, Gatwick and Croydon and obviously King's Cross & Euston but no other London terminal, as far as I am aware.
It won't be as extensive as other traction as there are many similarities with the 222s. Also I presume not everyone will sign the 221s given their short stayCrew training for just two units? As I don't think they can do the "222/9" trick
There's at least four 180s (180109, 180110, 180111 and 180113) that have been in store, mainly Ely Papworth, for quite a while, and have been sent to Eastleigh TMD.
Perhaps they're getting some TLC there, after their cold storage in the open, prior to strengthening the Grand Central operational fleet?
D365
Veteran Member
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- 29 Jun 2012
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- 13,204
Did Class 22x units ever appear at St Pancras during West Coast Main Line blockades?
edwin_m
Veteran Member
They may go back to Central Rivers for servicing. This avoids some of the engineering issues - they have totally different bogies from 222s for example - and I imagine Etches Park has its hands full already without taking on a new class.
Also a risk that they might not meet 222 timings, as the 221s are heavier. With that and the crew training issue I assume they will be kept on very specific diagrams.
Also a risk that they might not meet 222 timings, as the 221s are heavier. With that and the crew training issue I assume they will be kept on very specific diagrams.
They’re in for a full refurbishment prior to joining GC, as discussed in another thread
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Regardless, the Super Voyagers do have good acceleration and the ones EMR are leasing have been in active service for over 3 years now. Combine that with the rate the 222s are failing and I don’t think it’ll be too hard to keep up with their timings…
Not St Pancras, but I feel one or two might have visited Marylebone?
We haven't even heard down St Pancras. Probably only be Derby drivers will sign them.
They have done when diverting between Birmingham and Derby
I presume even a select few at that and the 221s kept on a single diagram. Not sure how they'd get around the lack of SDO unless they remove Long Eaton/Beeston from those trips
Probably the fast Nottingham or Sheffield that miss those stops.
Amos390
Member
I think Beeston should be able to hold a 5-car 221, Beeston has a platform length of 142 metres (according to RailwayData) and the 221 (5-car variant) is 118 metres.
Long Eaton has platform lengths of 110m (up) and 113m (down) so if the 221s have a crew door (I cannot remember whether they do or don't) that could be fine, they'd just need to make sure they stop with the crew door being the one off the platform (not sure how that works with the stop car markers there though).
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
they don't, there are passenger doors at the very front and back (well, near enough)
Amos390
Member
Ah ok, thanks
I believe the 221s will be in 10 car formation whilst in use with EMR
InTheEastMids
Established Member
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*Must* surely? As you say, part of the reason for EMR's difficulties was down to Etches Park being overwhelmed by patching up knackered old trains whilst onboarding dodgy new ones.
Presumably if the intention is to therefore deploy on the services most liable to overcrowding?
Any views on when actual entry into service will be?
They'll be fine as long as all 5 engines are working as my most recent experience suggests a lot of 222 have been running about on 4.
Have to admit, I remain a bit pessimistic
1. It's such a short lease that it would be utterly unsurprising if it took most of the time just getting crew trained, paperwork done and glitches ironed out!
2. There hasn't been confirmation that this is additional capacity - it be that this just allows 2 more Cl222 to be sent off
3. It's not exactly a vote of confidence in the idea that the 810 situation is likely to suddenly improve
Class15
Established Member
Can this be extended? Cutting it at Feb looks really inflexible if not!
I wonder what the method of operation is going to be? 221s are driver release and close (on instruction of the guard giving 2-1 telling the driver to close doors) and there are no door controls provided to the guard other than the door buzzer to communicate with the driver and a key switch to make the "panel" active and control the local door. 222s I believe are more traditional with the driver setting the number of doors to be released but the guard actually releases doors and closes them using a conventional guards panel.
Has anyone come up with an agreed method of working with ASLEF and the RMT?
Has anyone come up with an agreed method of working with ASLEF and the RMT?
londonmidland
Established Member
810013
Member
Aren't the 810s driver release and close?
Hairy Bear
Member
A pair worked into St.Pancras for Virgin in the early days on a promotional trip to Old Dalby if I remember correctly .
No the train manager does this
As talks have been ongoing for a good few months I presume the unions have also been involved for method of working agreements
Extension is possible to April if signed off
Fingers crossed! Would be extremely frustrating if this falls over because people couldn't come to an agreement for a short term crisis period.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Can the 222s keep to time on 4?
Are 221s also routinely running around on 4? They are older units and these particular ones have spent time out of use, which usually isn't good for reliability.
They can't multiple with 222s and if either unit fails it's virtually impossible EMR will have two 222s available to substitute, so there will be a shortform.
I believe this is the pair at GC, which have been out and about every day.