Ex Cops who have go on to be Drivers

[Sir Hateley]

It's a 1/40th and can transfer in.

That’s a pretty good scheme, I take it that’s a 6% employee contribution?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Apr 2021 ==

Sir Hateley

There are three different police pensions - the 1987 scheme (that I was in), the 2006 scheme and more recently the 2015 scheme.

The 1987 30 years service pension scheme is the best one - this was originally based on officers contributing 11% of their salary, but this was increased following the Winsor review to around 13-14%. The officers on the 2006 scheme originally contributed about 9% of salary as this was based on a 35 year pension, but again this was increased.

I think the biggest bug bear of all cops were that they were paying more into the pensions but not getting out the same 'rewards' as a cop who has recently retired. I am not 100% sure of whether the police pension arbitration process has ever been resolved. Maybe someone can answer this question?

CJ

Thanks for the info but I meant the railway pension scheme, sorry for any confusion.

 

[dctraindriver]

That’s a pretty good scheme, I take it that’s a 6% employee contribution?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Apr 2021 ==


Thanks for the info but I meant the railway pension scheme, sorry for any confusion.

Depends on the company. Think we pay about 11% at my TOC.

 

[kickin aff]

Pension is also calculated on final salary and not career average earnings like a number of work pensions have now moved to.

 

[C J Snarzell]

Pension is also calculated on final salary and not career average earnings like a number of work pensions have now moved to.

kickin aff

I know the police pension (originally) was calculated on a final salary scheme whereby your last 12 months of service determined what you would draw from your pension.

There were quite a lot of cops I recall who got promoted to Sergeant or Inspector in their last few of years of service who made the move to benefit from a bigger pension.

For example officer A who did 25 years as a PC, three years as a Sergeant, then their final 2 years as an Inspector got the same pension as officer B who did 15 years as an Inspector up to retirement.

I believe the Winsor review stopped this - the new pension scheme was based on your earnings throughout your service. Therefore officer A would not draw as much from his/her pension as officer B.

I know this is another issue which was being challenged by the police arbitration.

CJ

 

[paddingtonGWR]

kickin aff

I know the police pension (originally) was calculated on a final salary scheme whereby your last 12 months of service determined what you would draw from your pension.

There were quite a lot of cops I recall who got promoted to Sergeant or Inspector in their last few of years of service who made the move to benefit from a bigger pension.

For example officer A who did 25 years as a PC, three years as a Sergeant, then their final 2 years as an Inspector got the same pension as officer B who did 15 years as an Inspector up to retirement.

I believe the Winsor review stopped this - the new pension scheme was based on your earnings throughout your service. Therefore officer A would not draw as much from his/her pension as officer B.

I know this is another issue which was being challenged by the police arbitration.

CJ

Thats is a career average then

 

[whoosh]

kickin aff

I know the police pension (originally) was calculated on a final salary scheme whereby your last 12 months of service determined what you would draw from your pension.

There were quite a lot of cops I recall who got promoted to Sergeant or Inspector in their last few of years of service who made the move to benefit from a bigger pension.

For example officer A who did 25 years as a PC, three years as a Sergeant, then their final 2 years as an Inspector got the same pension as officer B who did 15 years as an Inspector up to retirement.

I believe the Winsor review stopped this - the new pension scheme was based on your earnings throughout your service. Therefore officer A would not draw as much from his/her pension as officer B.

I know this is another issue which was being challenged by the police arbitration.

CJ

The Railway Pension has been changed in the same way, in this regard at least.

 

[Albagubrath]

5 years in the railway now driving trains after 12 years in the police and have to say I can’t believe I didn’t do it years ago!
You don’t realise how horrifically bad the job is and how underpaid the police are until you join the railway!
I have to say that I wouldn’t encourage my worst enemy to join the police it’s that bad a job! Wouldn’t get out my bed now for the salary of a police officer and the ****e they deal with for the pittance they are paid!!
If somone said I was to return to the police tomorrow I would rather be unemployed!

 

[Stigy]

5 years in the railway now driving trains after 12 years in the police and have to say I can’t believe I didn’t do it years ago!
You don’t realise how horrifically bad the job is and how underpaid the police are until you join the railway!
I have to say that I wouldn’t encourage my worst enemy to join the police it’s that bad a job! Wouldn’t get out my bed now for the salary of a police officer and the ****e they deal with for the pittance they are paid!!
If somone said I was to return to the police tomorrow I would rather be unemployed!

I appreciate policing has changed, but the salary isn’t that bad. What is it, £40k a year basic after 2 years give or take? Not really minimum wage stuff. I know some forces make you do five or six years before you’re on the full rate though.

 

[Sparrowman]

I appreciate policing has changed, but the salary isn’t that bad. What is it, £40k a year basic after 2 years give or take? Not really minimum wage stuff. I know some forces make you do five or six years before you’re on the full rate though.

I appreciate policing has changed, but the salary isn’t that bad. What is it, £40k a year basic after 2 years give or take? Not really minimum wage stuff. I know some forces make you do five or six years before you’re on the full rate though.

Constable pay scales

www.polfed.org

It's nowhere near 40k after training unfortunately. It would take a number of years to reach top scale.

London forces have London weighting and South East forces have South East weighting, however police pay has stagnated for a number of years now and, taking into account inflation, has decreased in real terms.

 

[Albagubrath]

I appreciate policing has changed, but the salary isn’t that bad. What is it, £40k a year basic after 2 years give or take? Not really minimum wage stuff. I know some forces make you do five or six years before you’re on the full rate though.

Eh??? It takes 10 years to hit the 40k salary! 40k is a cop with 10 years of incriments, a starting salary is about 27k these days!
There’s no employer contribution to the pension so the full 11% is coming out your salary!
For under 2K a month what your expected to do and the fact you can never plan anything due to cancelled days, court etc it’s a scandal what the police are paid. Also your entire life is 24/7 under scrutiny, you can’t say boo to a goose without someone making a complaint against you.

 

[dzdoris]

Eh??? It takes 10 years to hit the 40k salary! 40k is a cop with 10 years of incriments, a starting salary is about 27k these days!
There’s no employer contribution to the pension so the full 11% is coming out your salary!
For under 2K a month what your expected to do and the fact you can never plan anything due to cancelled days, court etc it’s a scandal what the police are paid. Also your entire life is 24/7 under scrutiny, you can’t say boo to a goose without someone making a complaint against you.

I was a Special Constable with the intention of joining the regulars. When I found out the starting wage in the Midlands is 21 or 23K I couldn't believe it. Decided to stick to the job I was in which paid more with no shift work or risk. It's a joke what they pay new and existing officers when you consider what you do, risks taken and as you say the constant scrutiny from all angles.

 

[the sniper]

I appreciate policing has changed, but the salary isn’t that bad. What is it, £40k a year basic after 2 years give or take? Not really minimum wage stuff. I know some forces make you do five or six years before you’re on the full rate though.

Last time I looked I'd had to have done something like 5 years in the Police before I'd have reached the Guard's wage I had after 1 year of service. The Police pay scales were completely messed up early last decade.

I think you'd have to be naive/crazy and/or incredibly dedicated to the cause to join the Police as a Regular nowadays. Giving it a go as a Special Constable might still be recommendable though, if only for the experience.

 

[dctraindriver]

Eh??? It takes 10 years to hit the 40k salary! 40k is a cop with 10 years of incriments, a starting salary is about 27k these days!
There’s no employer contribution to the pension so the full 11% is coming out your salary!
For under 2K a month what your expected to do and the fact you can never plan anything due to cancelled days, court etc it’s a scandal what the police are paid. Also your entire life is 24/7 under scrutiny, you can’t say boo to a goose without someone making a complaint against you.

I believe the force also contributes about 21% towards your pension be it 87, 06 or 2015.

 

[jacey]

I believe the force also contributes about 21% towards your pension be it 87, 06 or 2015.

Yes that is correct in relation to the Pension. Working for the Police i can confirm a lot of speculation and wrong information in this thread. Its a great organisation to work for with lots of benefits. (i'm not saying its better than a railway or train driver role) now i must sleep on the front line tomorrow.

 

[dzdoris]

Yes that is correct in relation to the Pension. Working for the Police i can confirm a lot of speculation and wrong information in this thread.

My information was off the West Midlands Police website...unless it's out of date? https://jobs.west-midlands.police.uk/police-officer-recruitment/whats-life-like-wmp/

 

[jacey]

My information was off the West Midlands Police website...unless it's out of date? https://jobs.west-midlands.police.uk/police-officer-recruitment/whats-life-like-wmp/

i don't work for west midlands and i'm not a Police officer. no idea about starting salary for an officer i was referring to the Pension and other things in this thread.

 

[Stigy]

Eh??? It takes 10 years to hit the 40k salary! 40k is a cop with 10 years of incriments, a starting salary is about 27k these days!
There’s no employer contribution to the pension so the full 11% is coming out your salary!
For under 2K a month what your expected to do and the fact you can never plan anything due to cancelled days, court etc it’s a scandal what the police are paid. Also your entire life is 24/7 under scrutiny, you can’t say boo to a goose without someone making a complaint against you.

t depends on the force but I appreciate a couple of years may have been a bit optimistic, but for an officer with 10 years policing under their belt on the full scale, you can hardly say the money is rubbish, surely? I know policing in general took a hit a few years ago, seeing starting salaries as low as £19k in some forces.

To put it into perspective, ambulance staff (entry level ECA for example) are often paid a starting salary of around £19k, which with enhancements rises to the highest it ever will, at about £25k. In my opinion, that’s a rubbish salary for the job (not exactly minimum wage, but rubbish for the role they do and risks they take). Firefighters’ salaries are on a par with Police.

It’s not all about the salary, I understand that, and that’s why a lot of people see it as a vocation. As emergency workers go, the Police are paid toward the higher end of the scale.


I think the fact that most people leaving the police have between 10 and 15 years service says a lot about how policing has changed in relatively few years.

 

[dctraindriver]

t depends on the force but I appreciate a couple of years may have been a bit optimistic, but for an officer with 10 years policing under their belt on the full scale, you can hardly say the money is rubbish, surely? I know policing in general took a hit a few years ago, seeing starting salaries as low as £19k in some forces.

I think the fact that most people leaving the police have between 10 and 15 years service says a lot about how policing has changed in relatively few years.

It’s now 7 years to hit 41k. Before The Winsor Review it took 10 years to hit top rate. However pay was frozen for at least a couple of years after 2010 thus over time coppers and other public sector workers as you probably know have taken about an 18% cut in real terms.

It was a job for life, however the Winsor Review in some respect was implemented to rid forces of life long cops. Govt ideally want rid of most coppers after 5 years, let them move on thus reducing the higher pension contribution costs of long term officers. Burnt out, moving on if they can. Recruit 2 probationers for the cost of a year 7 cop for roughly the same pay plus less experience of dealing with crime. Then rinse and repeat.

 

[C J Snarzell]

It’s now 7 years to hit 41k. Before The Winsor Review it took 10 years to hit top rate. However pay was frozen for at least a couple of years after 2010 thus over time coppers and other public sector workers as you probably know have taken about an 18% cut in real terms.

It was a job for life, however the Winsor Review in some respect was implemented to rid forces of life long cops. Govt ideally want rid of most coppers after 5 years, let them move on thus reducing the higher pension contribution costs of long term officers. Burnt out, moving on if they can. Recruit 2 probationers for the cost of a year 7 cop for roughly the same pay plus less experience of dealing with crime. Then rinse and repeat.

Thats right. I joined the police in May 2003 and I was on the 11 point pay system. I remember the annual September pay rise was stopped after 2010 and then all cops were put on a two year pay increment freeze from April 2012.

On top of that - there was a payment given to front line staff (who had 5+ years service) every December. This was an insentive to keep staff in certain roles such as response policing. This too was abolished under the Winsor review - with officers simply getting a shift allowance if they worked between 8pm & 6am (like an extra £1.20 an hour).

I was suppose to move from grade 8 to grade 9 in May 2012 which would have been an extra two grand a year in salary (just over a £100 a month) and this was denied me by Tom Winsor and that sour faced battle axe Theresa May (when she was Home Secretary), because of the pay increment freeze that started in April.

I believe the government are proposing yet another pay increment freeze for cops. What hacks me off about this is that it is always the young in service officers who are hit the hardest. A young PC (earning under 30k) is invariably the one running around on response, working a 24/7 shift pattern dealing with all manner of dangerous scenarios, while a PC with 10+ years on restrictive duties is sat in an office on daytime hours drawing £41k. No fairness in that.

I do recall at least two officers at my station quit their roles in 2012 - one had only three years service in, but felt his meagre salary didn't reflect the demands of the job and supporting a young family.

CJ

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Police pay and conditions seem to vary a lot between forces, may have generally been better in London, but do they vary a lot between rural forces too?

I am retired, doing some voluntary work, I was wondering if the cops could employ retirees voluntarily for light duties, education, surveillance? Might be an alternative to volunteering on a heritage railway.

 

[dk1]

I am retired, doing some voluntary work, I was wondering if the cops could employ retirees voluntarily for light duties, education, surveillance? Might be an alternative to volunteering on a heritage railway.

Doesn’t sound anywhere near as enjoyable though.

 

[Sparrowman]

Police pay and conditions seem to vary a lot between forces, may have generally been better in London, but do they vary a lot between rural forces too?

I am retired, doing some voluntary work, I was wondering if the cops could employ retirees voluntarily for light duties, education, surveillance? Might be an alternative to volunteering on a heritage railway.

There are national police payscales for officers up to the rank of Chief Superintendent.

The only variations are London forces recieve London Weighting and housing allowance and South East forces recieve a South East allowance. Also Inspectors/Chief Inspector's in London forces receive slightly more money.

Police pay is generally consistent across all Home Office forces and I believe is consistent with BTP. Minstry of Defence Police and Civil Nuclear Constabulary have similar pay, however there are differences due to the nature of their funding. Most offer a slightly higher starting salary based on whether the recruit has a degree or will need to study one as part of the degree apprenticeship programme. Officer starting on an apprenticeship start on around 18/19k.

It's only really when officers move into the Chief officer ranks (Assistant Chief Constable / Commander for the Met and City of London upwards) that pay varies, for example the Chief Constable of Cambridgeshire constabulary will get paid less than the Chief Constable of Greater Manchester police, due to different pressures / size of force etc.

Most forces do recruit volunteers, generally to help with administrive tasks, or if they have a specialist skill, for example in cyber. Of course, Specials are volunteers too.

 

[C J Snarzell]

Police officers in all UK Home Office forces are on a national pay structure - this covers all ranks from Constable up to Chief Superintendent.

In the Met Police, officers get something like 5k a year extra than their counterparts elsewhere - this is/was known as the London weighting allowance which reflected the cost of living/working in London.

However, the problem this created is that forces in the Home Counties, like Hertfordshire, Thames Valley and Surrey were hemorrhaging officers who were transferring into the Met because of the extra pay and slightly better working conditions. The Met is generally regarded as a 'looked after' force with better resources, than a smaller 'County' force.

I know of Met cops who commute from places like Oxford and Northampton because they benefit from extra pay and I believe they did get free rail travel when commuting to/from work with certain conditions (it was for 50 miles travel outside of London). I don't know if this is still place - maybe another forum member can advise me?

Chief officers in ACPO rank are on varied salaries which tend to reflect the size of the force. An ACC in an urban force will be on a higher salary than their counterpart in a rural force.

CJ

 

[whoosh]

Let's not forgot the Labour Government gave police a pay rise, but refused to backdate it to when it should've been implemented. It wasn't much of a rise anyway, and then to not pay it for the matter of a few months...!
With all political parties displaying such a lack of respect, it's no wonder a good proportion of the public don't either.

It was a job for life, however the Winsor Review in some respect was implemented to rid forces of life long cops. Govt ideally want rid of most coppers after 5 years, let them move on thus reducing the higher pension contribution costs of long term officers. Burnt out, moving on if they can. Recruit 2 probationers for the cost of a year 7 cop for roughly the same pay plus less experience of dealing with crime. Then rinse and repeat.

Wow. That looks quite like education, which seems to haemorrhage run down and demotivated staff, and shout, "Next!" to a queue of grinning, unsuspecting, naïve youngsters.

 

[C J Snarzell]

Let's not forgot the Labour Government gave police a pay rise, but refused to backdate it to when it should've been implemented. It wasn't much of a rise anyway, and then to not pay it for the matter of a few months...!
With all political parties displaying such a lack of respect, it's no wonder a good proportion of the public don't either.

If memory serves me right this happened in 2008, when Gordon Brown was Prime Minister.

Every September the police used to receive a 3% pay rise to meet inflation - this had been in place for nearly 30 years since the Edmund-Davies report in the late 1970s. 2008 was the year of the financial crash which lead to the start of austerity across the UK. I believe the Police Federation locked horns with the Labour government and it was eventually agreed that over three years - 2008, 09 & 10 the police would get a reduced pay rise each year (roughly around 2%). This was agreed late 2008 or early 2009, but as you say - Labour would not 'backdate' the pay rise from the previous September.

As I said in my previous post - since 2010 there hasn't been regular pay rises every year. I think officers have had 1% pay rises the last couple of years, but as I left myself three years ago, I'm a little out of kilter with the pay & conditions these days.

CJ

 

[whoosh]

@C J Snarzell

That sounds right. In Scotland it was backdated by the devolved government there, but in England penny-pinching was the order of the day - by a government that was supposed to be on the side of workers.

As I'm sure I've said or alluded to earlier in the thread - it's a shame that such a stance leads to a more inexperienced workforce who eventually become very demoralised and leave once they do have experience - which they then aren't there to pass on.

And subsequent governments have been happy to play along with this foolishness.

 

[Dan61]

I have been given a Start date with WMT of 5th July and have completed all of my onboarding now so just waiting for everything to come back. I would be leaving West Mids Police. Apart from the backlog for training and other reason not to take the job lol. I am just concerned with the amount of backlog and potential reduced footfall that WMT are seeing that if you are stuck at home whilst waiting for a DI and there are job cuts the first they will come too are the trainees at home. Am i thinking too much into it ?

 

[Tally In]

t depends on the force but I appreciate a couple of years may have been a bit optimistic, but for an officer with 10 years policing under their belt on the full scale, you can hardly say the money is rubbish, surely? I know policing in general took a hit a few years ago, seeing starting salaries as low as £19k in some forces.

To put it into perspective, ambulance staff (entry level ECA for example) are often paid a starting salary of around £19k, which with enhancements rises to the highest it ever will, at about £25k. In my opinion, that’s a rubbish salary for the job (not exactly minimum wage, but rubbish for the role they do and risks they take). Firefighters’ salaries are on a par with Police.

It’s not all about the salary, I understand that, and that’s why a lot of people see it as a vocation. As emergency workers go, the Police are paid toward the higher end of the scale.


I think the fact that most people leaving the police have between 10 and 15 years service says a lot about how policing has changed in relatively few years.

Firefighters are no where near on a par with police. 30k fully qualified.

 

[Frankie4763]

Firefighters are no where near on a par with police. 30k fully qualified.

That’s why we need to have secondary employment....get a job on the trains instead and just have one well paid job.

 

[dctraindriver]

I have been given a Start date with WMT of 5th July and have completed all of my onboarding now so just waiting for everything to come back. I would be leaving West Mids Police. Apart from the backlog for training and other reason not to take the job lol. I am just concerned with the amount of backlog and potential reduced footfall that WMT are seeing that if you are stuck at home whilst waiting for a DI and there are job cuts the first they will come too are the trainees at home. Am i thinking too much into it ?

I wouldn’t worry. You should be safe. And if it does go wrong you will find rejoining pretty easy.