EWS 37s

Jord · 18 Oct 2007

I got speaking to an EWS driver on wednesday, and he said and i quote:

'you're not into 37s are ya, yeah brilliant if not the best EE's, and he says well i took a green one, which i said is 411 (he didn't know the numbers) then one with the big BR logo, which is 425 and 417 from Runcorn - Warrington because have been put back into service'

Do you reckon this is true? why would a driver lie about something like this and you can't really doubt somebody that works for EWS and gives you information on things like this, and he also said that EWS or the Germans that own them said they want 56s running by the end of next month preferably so we'll see. . .

RailUK Forums

Donny Dave · 18 Oct 2007

It is true...

The reason all 3 of the 37s were on a train together was because 417 failed at Folly Lane, and 411/425 were sent to rescue....

No idea about the 56s though, but I would have thought the priority would be to get all the 60s back into service first.

Jord · 19 Oct 2007

So 411/425 were sent to Runcorn from Margam?

Surely there was something closer to rescue 417?

Unless 411/425 wern't at Margam

Sir_Clagalot · 19 Oct 2007

hmm, Interesting to see if the 56s get a reprieve... along with the 37s! (anyone know what happened to 37403? Was up for sale last month, still wearing its Green livery from the West Highland 100 Years 'thing' that Scotrail did! Looked a bit rusty though!)

matt · 19 Oct 2007

Jord said:
So 411/425 were sent to Runcorn from Margam?

Surely there was something closer to rescue 417?

Unless 411/425 wern't at Margam

37411 and 425 were already at Warrington (or in the area)

class 313 · 19 Oct 2007

This did happen:-
37411 + 37425 6H66 0431 Arpley - Dowlow
Then
37411 + 37425 + 37410 6F67 1016 Dowlow - Arpley

So it wasn't 417 but 410 that was in the consist.

Jord · 19 Oct 2007

matt said:
37411 and 425 were already at Warrington (or in the area)

Oh right, thanks for that, just that i didn't hear about that move in the first place then

37402 · 19 Oct 2007

I wouldn't hold your breath too long for 56s.

More 37s, maybe.

matt · 19 Oct 2007

Any ideas why 37417 can down to Bescot for 2 days did a few runs then went back up to Warrington ( was a skip on the birch today

)

Jord · 19 Oct 2007

class 313 said:
This did happen:-
37411 + 37425 6H66 0431 Arpley - Dowlow
Then
37411 + 37425 + 37410 6F67 1016 Dowlow - Arpley

So it wasn't 417 but 410 that was in the consist.

oh, anybody got any pictures? would make a good picture 2 or 3 37s

and all in different liveries

matt · 19 Oct 2007

http://thechairsrailwayphots.fotopic.net/p45968129.html

That is the only photo I have seen so far

Julian G · 19 Oct 2007

David said:
It is true...

The reason all 3 of the 37s were on a train together was because 417 failed at Folly Lane, and 411/425 were sent to rescue....

No idea about the 56s though, but I would have thought the priority would be to get all the 60s back into service first.

I swear I heard that reinstating 37s are cheaper than getting 60s out of Store?

class 313 · 19 Oct 2007

Have a video instead
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KhrLJ8eIB-E

5872 · 19 Oct 2007

Julian G said:
I swear I heard that reinstating 37s are cheaper than getting 60s out of Store?

probably did. If you think about it 37s are a little bit older but 60s are more powerful thus more fuel usage. Besides double 37 can get monster power results on intermodals!.

Jord · 19 Oct 2007

Cheers matt and class 313

class 313 · 19 Oct 2007

5872 said:
probably did. If you think about it 37s are a little bit older but 60s are more powerful thus more fuel usage. Besides double 37 can get monster power results on intermodals!.

Ermm and 59s are more powerful than 60s... But IIRC it wouldn't be 37s doing runs that 60s do now.

thefab444 · 20 Oct 2007

5872 said:
probably did. If you think about it 37s are a little bit older but 60s are more powerful thus more fuel usage. Besides double 37 can get monster power results on intermodals!.

37s are a good twenty years older than 60s. Also, I don't think they've been reinstated to do intermodals, sadly. As far as I know, more Yings are being sent out to Europe and thus DB are reinstating 37s/60s. I'm not sure if they still have an order for more of the afforementioned Yingers?

5872 · 20 Oct 2007

thefab444 said:
37s are a good twenty years older than 60s. Also, I don't think they've been reinstated to do intermodals, sadly. As far as I know, more Yings are being sent out to Europe and thus DB are reinstating 37s/60s. I'm not sure if they still have an order for more of the afforementioned Yingers?

We do not need more yingers! We have over 700 of them here now!.

class 313 · 20 Oct 2007

5872 said:
We do not need more yingers! We have over 700 of them here now!.

Ermm, we?

EWS need more locomotives and in their eyes that will be more 66s. Sorry Fred.

Dreadnought · 20 Oct 2007

5872 said:
We do not need more yingers! We have over 700 of them here now!.

Not quite 700 yet!!

I think at the moment there is 427 Cl66 with another 19 currently on order. Of these 46 EWS ones are allocated to the euroshed pool, although not all are across the channel yet!!

Do agree we need a bit of variety though and it is certainly good to see more tractors and tugs running!!

86242 · 20 Oct 2007

class 313 said:
Ermm, we?

EWS need more locomotives and in their eyes that will be more 66s. Sorry Fred.

I would think it would be very unlikely if EWS would order more 66s as I don't see how they could justify the lease charges with some many 'new' 60s setting about doing nothing. Originally the 250 EWS 66s would only replace the 31s, 33s and other odd/old garage as well the all the 47s (which were all pretty wrecked) all other classes have only gone as they have lost so much traffic IIRC EWS did plan to keep 100 37s in there 'core fleet' once all the 66s arrived...

37402 · 21 Oct 2007

Julian G said:
I swear I heard that reinstating 37s are cheaper than getting 60s out of Store?

Only because most (not all) of the OOS 60s are in need of major repairs/big bits of kit to get them going again. Wheelsets are in rather short supply too.

16CSVT2700 · 25 Oct 2007

073 and 081 put pistons through their blocks so they need pretty substantial repairs.

2 cl. 37s are nowhere near capable of shifting the loads 60s do.

I'd like to see grids make a comeback, perhaps some 58s? Its been years since I heard one working properly..

class 313 · 25 Oct 2007

16CSVT2700 said:
073 and 081 put pistons through their blocks so they need pretty substantial repairs.

2 cl. 37s are nowhere near capable of shifting the loads 60s do.

I'd like to see grids make a comeback, perhaps some 58s? Its been years since I heard one working properly..

Saying that, how many workings are 60s pushed to their limits? And before 60s what did their trains? Two 37s are quite powerful.

Donny Dave · 25 Oct 2007

It's not the power that counts, it's the tractive effort. While a pair of 37s are more powerful than a 60, would you like to restart them on a 3000 ton train going up Shap?

They would end up going backwards, while a 60 would just get going with very little fuss ....

86242 · 25 Oct 2007

David said:
It's not the power that counts, it's the tractive effort. While a pair of 37s are more powerful than a 60, would you like to restart them on a 3000 ton train going up Shap?

They would end up going backwards, while a 60 would just get going with very little fuss ....

There may be some truth in that but it is worth remembering pairs of 37s used to handle a lot of workings now done by 60s before the 60s were built...

class 313 · 25 Oct 2007

David said:
It's not the power that counts, it's the tractive effort. .

Yes you're right...

1x60 = 106,500 lb.
1x37 = 61,910 lb.
2x37 = 123,820 lb

Donny Dave · 25 Oct 2007

class 313 said:
Yes you're right...

1x60 = 106,500 lb.
1x37 = 61,910 lb.
2x37 = 123,820 lb

Don't know where you get your figures from, but there is no 37s with a maximum of 61,190lb tractive effort :?

As built, 37s had 55,500lb of tractive effort, of which the continuous effort was 35,000lbf. at 13.6 mph The continuous effort for a 60 his more than double this, and at higher speed as well.

PS Why was the coal and iron ore trains from Port Talbot - Llanwern always triple headed by 37s, but a single 60 could do the job?

yorkie · 25 Oct 2007

class 313 said:
Yes you're right...

1x60 = 106,500 lb.
1x37 = 61,910 lb.
2x37 = 123,820 lb

Those figures are pretty meaningless.

'Tractive effort' is a complicated term, I asked you how it is calculated and you did not know. I suggest you read up on it before commenting.

Try reading these discussions:-
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.railway/browse_thread/thread/cc9a170b2485b080
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.railway/browse_frm/thread/4b029964f9904489

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tractive_effort
'When a bare figure for tractive effort is quoted without a speed qualification, this is normally for starting tractive effort, i.e. at a dead start with the wheels not turning' - is that what you have quoted above?

37402 · 25 Oct 2007

86242 said:
There may be some truth in that but it is worth remembering pairs of 37s used to handle a lot of workings now done by 60s before the 60s were built...

And it is also worth remembering that tonnages weren't what they are today on most trains...

EWS 37s

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