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Evening peak restrictions from Paddington

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Mojo

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Can anyone explain the evening peak restrictions from Paddington? I'm sure it was mentioned here before that even if the times aren't shown in the restrictions window on Avantix Traveller NFM for those evening peak trains then the restrictions still apply. Is this still the case, and does it only apply to certain types of tickets?

I want to use a SVR, and, if so would mean I could travel on the 'fast' trains in the evening peak?
 
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Mojo

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The restriction text for the outward portion is just 'By any train.''
 

barrykas

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Short Answer: It depends on the exact journey on the ticket.

Longer Answer: FGW have recently moved the list of barred trains from the "front" of the Off-Peak validity page, where it's lived for several years, and inserted it against all of the validity codes to which they think it applies.

Cheers,

Barry
 

Mojo

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Just found this; it seems to suggest that when there were blanket restrictions they only applied to Off-peak Day tickets, although are you saying now that they only apply to those with the restrictions detailed against each individual restriction code?
 

yorkie

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I was under the impression that the ludicrous idea that one route could have their own set of secret rules that 'trumped' all other rules and that they didn't have to bother with restriction codes because they were somehow special, was abolished, and they now fall into line with everyone else. We said a while back this should happen, I am not sure if anyone complained or if ATOC/FGW read what we said and agreed with us, but it does seem to have happened!

Barry's confirmation that the list of barred trains from the front of the validity page (which didn't appear in any public documentation whatsoever, not even Avantix Traveller) in The Manual does seem confirm that this is indeed the case, and sanity has been restored. About time too!
 

Mojo

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Just searched on National Rail Enquiries and whilst I can't get the train to show up which I want to use, one of the trains on the "barred list" is shown as valid. I've noticed there is a CDR for the same route which is shown as barred in both Avantix and National Rail.
 

bnm

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There are still legitimate ways around the evening peak restrictions as well as some Off Peak fares that transit through Paddington that have never been subject to the restriction.
 

Halsebee

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Could someone please explain what the significance of moving from the front of the off peak validity page is, and what is meant by that?

Thanks
 

Mojo

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Could someone please explain what the significance of moving from the front of the off peak validity page is, and what is meant by that?
Historically the Great Western route out of Paddington had train restrictions (the barred trains list) for Cheap Day Return (now Off-peak Day) tickets which prohibited their use on certain trains throughout the evening peak; typically high-speed trains operating long-distance services to places like Bristol, South Wales, South West, Cotswold line, etc., restricting passengers to travelling on the stopping trains.

Each ticket has a restriction code, which when looked up explains what times the ticket can be used. In NFM04 the case of a ticket from Reading to 1072 (London Terminals) was:
Code:
Restriction Applies:
Monday to Friday only. No travel restrictions on other days.

Outward Travel
By any train scheduled to arrive London Terminals or Kensington Olympia at or after 1000.

Return Travel
By any train.
However, the barred trains list took precedence over this, meaning they were not valid "by any train."

It seems the case is now that the blanket evening peak restrictions for all Off-peak Day tickets now only applies if the restriction is in the restriction text. Looking at NFM07 the restriction text for the same journey above is
Code:
OUTWARD TRAVEL:               
By any train scheduled to     
arrive London Terminals or    
Kensington Olympia at or after
 1000.                        
                              
<snip>
                              
RETURN TRAVEL:                
By any train except those     
listed in the table below:    
                              
Ticket may NOT be used on the 
following services, Monday -  
Friday:                       
                              
                              
From   From   Final           
Padd   Rdg    Destination     
1600___1628___Bristol TM (BRI)
1606___1633___Penzance (PNZ)  
1615___1642___Swansea (SWA)   
1630___1659___Taunton (TAU)   
1636___1704___Exeter St D(EXD)
1645___1712___Swansea (SWA)   
1649___1721___Oxford (OXF)    
1700___1727___Bristol TM (BRI)
1703___1732___Penzance (PNZ)  
1715   1743___Swansea (SWA)   
1722   1751   Hereford  (HFD) 
1730   1757   Taunton (TAU)   
1736   1804   Paignton (PGN)  
1745___1812___Carmarthen (CMN)
1748   1817   Cheltenham (CNM)
1750   1823   Worcester (WOS) 
1800   1828   Bristol TM (BRI)
1803   1833   Penzance (PNZ)  
1815   1843   Swansea (SWA)   
1822   1852   Hereford (HFD)  
1830   1857   Weston SM (WSM) 
1833   1904   Exeter (EXD) FX 
1833   1904   Plymouth(PLY) FO
1845   1912   Swansea (SWA)   
1847   1919   Cheltenham (CNM)
1851   1924   Oxford (OXF)    
1900   1929   Bristol TM (BRI)
1903   1934   Plymouth(PLY)_FX
1903   1934   Penzance(PNZ) FO
1915   1942   Swansea (SWA)   

<snip>

So the restriction in this case of a Reading to 1072 ticket has not changed, however I think he is trying you can find an Off-peak Day ticket which does not have the list of barred trains in the restriction text then it is therefore valid on these trains provided there is no other evening peak restriction.

However, when you search for a Watford High Street to Didcot Parkway ticket which is apparently valid "by any train," journey planners will still not show validity. In ''The Manual'' when you search for a CDR it still shows "First Great Western evening barred trains

Tickets may not be used on the following services, Monday to Friday:" so it seems the restriction hasn't been lifted afterall?
 

route:oxford

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So what happens with the restrictions this winterval when the FGW services are departing from Marylebone?
 

bnm

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All ticket restrictions are lifted on FGW on 24th & 27th-31st December inclusive. So only buy Super Off Peak, if available for your journey, or Off Peak, if not.

Oh, and FGW are using Waterloo, not Marylebone.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
So the restriction in this case of a Reading to 1072 ticket has not changed, however I think he is trying you can find an Off-peak Day ticket which does not have the list of barred trains in the restriction text then it is therefore valid on these trains provided there is no other evening peak restriction.

However, when you search for a Watford High Street to Didcot Parkway ticket which is apparently valid "by any train," journey planners will still not show validity. In ''The Manual'' when you search for a CDR it still shows "First Great Western evening barred trains

In which case I rely on the 'Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Legislation 1999', which allows for the interpretation of T&Cs more favourable to the consumer to prevail. So NFM07 says ANY train on your Watford HS-Didcot example and does not qualify that ANY with a list of exceptions.

There are many more Off Peak fares (both period and day) available from/through Paddington that do not refer to the list of barred evening trains within their particular validity code in NFM07. I'm not going to publicise them. FGW can find them themselves if they want to close the loopholes. They are partly responsible for the mess and whilst I understand (a little) their desire to manage capacity out of Paddington in the evening, if they can't or won't ensure that loopholes are closed then I will continue to exploit them. It is also unfair to penalise passengers based on a restriction that is only published in a document that is not in the public domain.

Some rail staff here may argue that information gleaned from journey planners, text displayed on departure boards, or what the clerk says in the ticket office is sufficient for the blanket ban to apply. However, if even just one official source of information on ticket restrictions differs (in this case NFM07) and this difference is more favourable to the passenger then that interpretation of the restriction prevails.

I've successfully travelled out of Paddington on Off Peak tickets using services on the 'barred' list on numerous occasions in the past year. I've yet to have a TM attempt to issue an Excess or UPFN. However that's because you so rarely get a ticket check on evening services until after Didcot and by then I'm on a different ticket anyway because I further reduce the cost of my journey from/to Bristol by splitting at Didcot. I am prepared for the possibility of a TM/RPI querying my ticket but I am only prepared to accept a UPFN and then challenge that. I'm fairly certain that a judge's interpretation of ANY would be the same as mine. Extremely unlikely that FGW would prosecute though.

Finally, IANAL:D
 
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route:oxford

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Oh, and FGW are using Waterloo, not Marylebone.

Oh right. I hadn't realised.

That's going to be a right pain for services that are routing Oxford, Banbury then down the Chiltern Mainline.

Would be quicker getting off the train at Oxford and getting the Tube into London!
 

bnm

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Oh right. I hadn't realised.

That's going to be a right pain for services that are routing Oxford, Banbury then down the Chiltern Mainline.

Would be quicker getting off the train at Oxford and getting the Tube into London!

Sorry, should've said they are only using Waterloo for services to/from the south-west via Westbury, Salisbury and Basingstoke. Sevices to the west and south Wales will still start/terminate at Paddington as usual, but travel via an alternate route avoiding Reading. Using the New North Main Line from Old Oak Common to South Ruislip then Chiltern Main Line to Banbury, reverse, then on to Swindon via Oxford and Didcot West Curve.

Local services out of Paddington will be terminating at Maidenhead.

Cotswold Line services will operate to/from Oxford only.

Services to Cheltenham/Gloucester will operate to/from Swindon only.

Buses will operate between Reading - Maidenhead, Reading - Didcot, Reading - Swindon, Reading - Basingstoke.
 
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rowlandpittard

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There is also an avaiability of tickets via Birmingham New Street to Euston and free tube to Paddington for Cheltenham and Gloucester Do not know if this applies to South Wales as South Wales to Paddington tickets are valid via Gloucester as well as Sailsbury and Southhampton
 

bnm

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There is also an avaiability of tickets via Birmingham New Street to Euston and free tube to Paddington for Cheltenham and Gloucester Do not know if this applies to South Wales as South Wales to Paddington tickets are valid via Gloucester as well as Sailsbury and Southhampton

That temporary routeing allowance appears to only be valid from Cheltenham Spa, Gloucester, Cam & Dursley and Lydney.
 
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