Euston to Glasgow Central - 4h08m

[stut]

Unfortunately these extra stops lose rail the market from South of the Thames a far larger market than that provided bymany of these small provincial towns.

The size of the town in question is only part of the equation, though. Peterborough itself isn't that big, granted.

Add in the people driving from Hunts, south Lincs and so on. That's a good few more.

Of course, you should also add the people from Huntingdon. And St Neots, Biggleswade, Arlesey, Hitchin. Then over to Stamford. Oakham, Melton Mowbray. Not all huge towns, no. So let's forget about Manea and Whittlesey.

Norwich? Thetford? Ipswich? Cambridge? Well, basically, most of Norfolk, Suffolk and Cambridgeshire. All these people, if they want to get the train up North, are going to change at Peterborough.

Fair enough, miss out your Newarks, Granthams and all on the faster services. Missing out your major connection points, though, is silly. I would have said, on the ECML, that Peterborough, Doncaster, York and Newcastle should be a given on the majority of services.

 

[jopsuk]

As pointed out, Peterborough is a major interchange station- travelling from Cambridge up north before Christmas, I reckon the majority of the passengers on (full and packed standing) service I got from Ely (an EMT from Ely) alighted and changed for Leeds or the Edinburgh service I got on. Taking out Peterborough would pretty much mean travelling via London- or, worse, Stansted Airport. Would you really want to disconnect two major interchanges (York and Peterborough) on the ECML?

 

[43106]

I reckon Preston could have two trains per hour for London (if there were enough units/ paths etc), bearing in mind that it's "Preston, change here for Blackpool, Blackburn, Burnley etc etc".

Some merit in this, but 2tph is a bit much

Preston to Carlisle has up to five trains every two hours (one from Manchester, two from Birmingham and one or two from Euston), which is probably the best service it's ever had - meaning plenty opportunities to change to/from a Euston - Preston service.

Not quite right. TPE have 1/2tph to Glasgow or Edinburgh, there's only 1 tph to/from Brum and there's just over 1tph to/from Euston, of which about 0.8tph serve Carlisle.

Oh, and whilst we're on the subject, what's the point in the one Euston - Edinburgh service a day? And why can't all these Carlisle - Glasgow/ Edinburgh services stop at Carstairs?

a) The Euston - Edinburgh service has now gone. It stopped running at the start of the current PTT in December 2008,
b) Very few services stop at Carstairs because there are very few reasons to stop there! In years gone past, they stopped there so that trains to/from Edinburgh could split/join, and that hasn't happened in about 20 years! There is very little in the way of population in the locale - it's all concentrated at Carstairs State Hospital (Scotland's equivalent to Broadmoor or Rampton) which is right next to the station! It's unlikely that the inmates there are going to be concerned with the timetable of trains - they're going nowhere!!!

 

[me123]

There is a town/village at Carstairs. It doesn't warrant a frequent service to London, but a more frequent service to Glasgow would be welcomed; there are several thousand non-inmates living there! Oddly enough, Virgin used to serve Carstairs with one Pendolino a day to Edinburgh, as part of the ECS for the EDB-EUS train.

I think there could be benefit in 2tph to Preston or Lancaster. The Scotland trains could all run non-stop Euston-Preston, with the other train mopping up in between. Don't know if there's demand, though, and there certainly ain't Pendolinos!

 

[yorkie]

Oh, and (whilst we're on the subject), what's the point in the one Euston - Edinburgh service a day? And why can't all these Carlisle - Glasgow/ Edinburgh services stop at Carstairs?

Not enough demand to justify the stop - which would cost about 4 minutes on Glasgow services. As for Edinburgh, you can't be serious surely? I'd guess a reversal would cost around 10 minutes, and you'd get about 5 people getting off while inconveniencing a hundred or more.

 

[tbtc]

Not enough demand to justify the stop - which would cost about 4 minutes on Glasgow services. As for Edinburgh, you can't be serious surely? I'd guess a reversal would cost around 10 minutes, and you'd get about 5 people getting off while inconveniencing a hundred or more.

I appreciate there's minimal demand for Carstairs Junction it'self, but if the trains from England to Glasgow were co-ordinated to stop there around the time of the NXEC Glasgow - Edinburgh - KX services, you could give Edinburgh a much improved service to the WCML destinations at minimal cost.

I appreciate that the days of joining/ splitting services has probably gone (though it'd double up journey opportunities), but I could see it working as an interchange for Edinburgh - Carlisle/ Manchester/ Birmingham (etc) journeys.

Of course, for this to happen, we'd need three independant TOCs to work together, which will never happen.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Some merit in this, but 2tph is a bit much

2tph would be a lot better if the "slow" service to Preston could extend to Blackpool or East Lancashire, but sadly that's not going to happen without wires at the moment...

a) The Euston - Edinburgh service has now gone. It stopped running at the start of the current PTT in December 2008

Hadn't appreciated that (with all the other December changes) - it always seemed a daft one to me. It seemed a really "token" service, depriving the core market of London - Glasgow, when Edinburgh already has a reasonable service down the WCML as far as Stafford.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for improvements to the Edinburgh - WCML service, but I think it'd be better to co-ordinate the Virgin and TPEX services better, and to potentially give connections at Carstairs for the Glasgow - WCML services (as above).

 

[Failed Unit]

Unfortunately these extra stops lose rail the market from South of the Thames a far larger market than that provided bymany of these small provincial towns. If I am to use rail from london to Scotland I need a service that has a maximum of 2 or possibly 3 stops but what is on offer is really only an express service to Yorkshire then a stopping service to Newcastle and Edinburgh.

As it is I can have taken off from Gatwick or Southampton in the time that it takes me to get to Kings Cross.

That is the trouble with trying to mix demand, to get air travellers from London you need the journey as fast as possible. But Milton Keynes, Rugby etc also have significant demand, even Nuneaton (for Leicester).

Unless you can do a fast and slow service every hour someone will miss out .

The same happens on the ECML, to get people away from the air you need 2 stops ideally. But Darlington, Doncaster and Peterborough create good demand themselves.

Hopefully one day we will get enough passengers to do,
London, York, Newcastle, Edinburgh & London, Peterborough, Doncaster, York, Darlington, Durham, Newcastle, Berwick, Edinburgh on the east and

London, Preston, Carlisle, Glasgow & London, Milton Keynes, Rugby, Crewe and all major stations to Glasgow on the West.

We will need some good growth before that happens.

If we had enough Pendo's would it be worth doing running London - Scotland via Birmingham new street in effect merging the London - Wolverhampton and Birmingham - Scotland services?