Euston ticket barrier checks

[cyclebytrain]

The last couple of times I've been through Euston, they haven't had anyone on the barriers for the Glasgow trains. Being first stop Warrington, I don't see there's any danger of fare dodging not being caught.

The cynic in me says that there's now no opportunity for someone with an invalid ticket to realise this before they're liable for (at least) a Euston to Warrington fare... Does anyone know if this is the new policy or if I've just been unlucky? (I have a vested interest in human barriers to weed out unreserved bikes that would otherwise take up my space in the bike compartment).

 

[Old Timer]

Virgin have a policy of checking trains on-board after leaving Euston/Watford Jct, specially First Class, so not sure what your point here is ?.

The ticket checks at the barrier are only to weed out those who do not have appropriate tickets, and seem to be ad hoc at best.

 

[cyclebytrain]

Curiosity with a pinch of selfishness -for the past 18 months or so all the Glasgow trains that I have used (barring disruptions) have been barriered at Euston. I've managed to avoid London (and travelling for that matter) for a little while and now it seems like something has changed in my absence. It also seems to me that someone with an off peak ticket on a peak service could now get caught out in a way that wouldn't happen if the ticket was checked before they got to the platform.

I can promise you they weed out bikes without a reservation too. I don't mind too much; but if the bike situation is going to become a free for all in practice (regardless of what the rules say) then I want to know about it sooner rather than later. I assure you it won't take the bike community long to start ignoring the reservation system.

 

[north]

I don't have much knowledge of the staff at Euston but I have had many bad experiences with the barrier staff for East Coast trains at Kings Cross. I have found them frequently rude, aggressive and not knowledgeable about the restrictions for the first station on their services (Stevenage). I have found the on board train managers much better.

Personally my heart sinks when I see them

peak service

There is no such thing. Restrictions apply to tickets not trains.

 

[Failed Unit]

Curiosity with a pinch of selfishness -for the past 18 months or so all the Glasgow trains that I have used (barring disruptions) have been barriered at Euston. I've managed to avoid London (and travelling for that matter) for a little while and now it seems like something has changed in my absence. It also seems to me that someone with an off peak ticket on a peak service could now get caught out in a way that wouldn't happen if the ticket was checked before they got to the platform.

I can promise you they weed out bikes without a reservation too. I don't mind too much; but if the bike situation is going to become a free for all in practice (regardless of what the rules say) then I want to know about it sooner rather than later. I assure you it won't take the bike community long to start ignoring the reservation system.

I am not a West Coast user, but on all TOC's I ever use ticket restrictions are annonced before the train leaves which gives users the chance to leave if thier ticket is not valid. They are often on stations so their isn't really much chance of you leaving with the wrong ticket.

As for the cycles on East Coast you need to ask the gaurd to put you bike in the area so you can't just do it without a reservation. I once had my reservation re-check on east coast when platform staff opened the DVT for my bike as the train manager handn't seen the reservation. Is virgin a free-for-all?

I am with North I would rather east coast didn't have them before we boarded the train, it just causes deley and tickets are checked anyway even if it is first stop Peterborough!

 

[cyclebytrain]

There is no such thing. Restrictions apply to tickets not trains.

My apologies, I felt that was a useful and short way of communicating my meaning and would be understood.

About the Euston staff. Some are pleasant, some are knowledgeable, some are grumpy, some are rude, sometimes some of them seem to be having a very bad day and are most unpleasant. Overall, my personal opinion is that the good outweigh the bad and I'd rather have them there than not.

For a Pendolino the door to the bike compartment is usually open at Euston, although it's not unusual for the driver to check your destination. For a voyager the cycle compartment can always (in practice) be opened unaided.

Virgin is not meant to be a free for all, but if the platforms at Euston aren't barriered it will very quickly become one.

 

[Failed Unit]

Virgin is not meant to be a free for all, but if the platforms at Euston aren't barriered it will very quickly become one.

Why should it be, was GNER a free for all? Was Inter-City West Coast a free for all. The first stop on a Virgin train is Milton Keynes (where passengers can get off) are you saying that Virgin can't check the train onboard in 30 minutes. Yes Virgin have problems with fare evasion from journeys such as Wigan - Preston, just like East Coast do with Durham - Newcastle journeys where it is too short to do a check on the entire train.

But I am one that doesn't agree with barriers on Inter-City stations, they don't stop fare dodging anyway. I could still travel from London - Glasgow very cheaply if I was determined to.

 

[north]

My apologies, I felt that was a useful and short way of communicating my meaning and would be understood.

Sorry - I didn't mean to cause offense. I object to way that the TOCs are allowed to refer to "peak" and "off-peak" services. What this achieves is to sometimes coerce passengers to buy more expensive "anytime" tickets than are necessary for their destinations.

 

[cyclebytrain]

I think I have to claim better knowledge about what bikers will do if they find out the platforms are regularly not being barriered.

To be sure, I don't mean there will be a free for all on people travelling with invalid tickets, just bikes without reservations. Apologies if I wasn't clear about that. I don't think it will have any effect on fare dodgers. I do think it would remove a useful layer of protection for people who aren't familiar with peak restrictions. I also think it would lead to the bike compartment being jam packed full of bikes without a reservation and will cause me all sorts of problems.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Sorry - I didn't mean to cause offense. I object to way that the TOCs are allowed to refer to "peak" and "off-peak" services. What this achieves is to sometimes coerce passengers to buy more expensive "anytime" tickets than are necessary for their destinations.

None taken. I could always have been more precise.

 

[hatty213]

Why should it be, was GNER a free for all? Was Inter-City West Coast a free for all. The first stop on a Virgin train is Milton Keynes (where passengers can get off) are you saying that Virgin can't check the train onboard in 30 minutes.

The first stop on THREE of the NINE tph Virgin runs is Milton Keynes. On some of the others it's Watford; the rest go express, some for up to two hours, without stopping. In this instance the OP was talking about the regular Glasgow trains that run first-stop-WarringtonBQ, which definitely do NOT stop at MKC, and which could, he argues, render people liable for a huge excess. Though I agree in practice announcements are usually made and barrier staff used, to avoid this.

 

[fgwoll1e]

Well I got the 05:39 Euston to Glasgow last Thursday and my ticket was checked before boarding.

 

[yorkie]

I really don't think it's an issue at all. Can't a Pendo take 4 bikes? 4 people taking bikes on a 200 mile journey on a whim is unlikely. I've encountered more issues with some 'desperate'/anti-bike staff making a problem than actual problems when travelling with a bike.

You are going to have a lot more issues when a train of a type like a Class 158 (of original internal design) is put on a popular inter-urban route on a nice day when people will decide to travel ad-hoc.

 

[bengolding]

I've also found that VT barrier checks at Euston are far less than before. Now, they tend to be purely at random in my experience.

I've travelled on one specific VT from Euston twice now (hint: formed of two trains coupled together) in the past few weeks. No barrier check, and only the First Class host checks the ticket in one of the trains. A friend who travelled in Standard in the same train confirmed no ticket check on their journey of over an hour. Do VT only have one TM instead of 2 in situations like this?

Incidently, got a peak train to Rugby earlier. No barrier check at Euston and not even a ticket check in First Class either. The journey only took 45m so the TM probably got caught up with a ticketing issue in Standard. Perhaps VT should do what EMT do and the First Class hosts should also be given ticketing duties? Whenever I travel First with EMT, it is always the First Class host that very quickly does the biro squiggle on my ticket and not the TM.

 

[rail-britain]

Barrier checks are primarily for revenue protection, not to ensure that customers have the "correct" tickets

However, personally I believe there should be a member of the TOC highly visible so that customers can check that their tickets are valid on the train before travel
Usually there is a person sat right in the middle station concourse at Euston for this purpose

As for passengers with cycles
Sadly they are in the minority
If the train has reservations then the on-board staff will be aware of this
However, if there is space then a cycle may be carried (a supplement may be payable)

Equally, if a passenger boards with the "incorrect" ticket there are all kinds of reasons why this can occur
A small minority will be "trying it on", however again this can be anything from "accidently" sitting in First Class to having the wrong type of ticket
A small minority will be on completely the wrong train, quite common with late platform announcements

I travelled on the 16:30 Euston - Glasgow last year (no stops)
Shortly after departure the other passenger in my coach asked if it was the Preston train as the reservations still hadn't shown up, I suggested they wait until the Train Manager arrived and discuss the matter
However there were at least 20 other passengers for Preston as someone on the platform was pointing to the wrong train (the Preston was on the opposite platform)
The Train Manager put out an announcement that passengers with tickets for destinations other than Glasgow should remain in their seats as he was now aware of the issue
The train briefly stopped at Preston (rather than making the passengers travel the entire round route!)

 

[nedchester]

I really don't think it's an issue at all. Can't a Pendo take 4 bikes? 4 people taking bikes on a 200 mile journey on a whim is unlikely. I've encountered more issues with some 'desperate'/anti-bike staff making a problem than actual problems when travelling with a bike.

You are going to have a lot more issues when a train of a type like a Class 158 (of original internal design) is put on a popular inter-urban route on a nice day when people will decide to travel ad-hoc.

Some TOCs re quite pro bike. For example Merseyrail allow bikes at all times (subject to space). As a result I use my bike and the train rather than my car to get to work a couple of times a week. Good on them.

 

[yorkie]

However, if there is space then a cycle may be carried (a supplement may be payable)

Where do you get this wrong info?

 

[A60K]

I travelled on the 16:30 Euston - Glasgow last year (no stops)

It's always been timetabled to stop at Preston since it was introduced just over a year ago. When was this - a special occasion?

 

[Failed Unit]

The first stop on THREE of the NINE tph Virgin runs is Milton Keynes. On some of the others it's Watford; the rest go express, some for up to two hours, without stopping. In this instance the OP was talking about the regular Glasgow trains that run first-stop-WarringtonBQ, which definitely do NOT stop at MKC, and which could, he argues, render people liable for a huge excess. Though I agree in practice announcements are usually made and barrier staff used, to avoid this.

If the first stop is Watford the it is a pick up only so I guess you could argue the barrier should prevent people getting on for Watford in the first place, but the Watford stop shouldn't be listed at Euston so as far as most people are concerned it is first stop Coventry.

Yes the OP was talking about a Glasgow service whichs normally first stop Warrington, but why would Virgin use barrier staff to prevent people with the wrong ticket from joining the train? If someone got on the wrong train and it was first stop Warrington Virgin would be quite happy with selling them an open return.

We have managed for years without barrier staff stopping people getting on the wrong train, lots of East Coast mainline trains are first stop York, it has never caused a problem. Probably because we have monitors, labels on the windows and annoncements before the train leaves so you must be dreaming if you are the on wrong train by accident. To be honest I would have little sympathy is someone heading to Leeds was on it....

 

[Donny Dave]

We have managed for years without barrier staff stopping people getting on the wrong train, lots of East Coast mainline trains are first stop York, it has never caused a problem. Probably because we have monitors, labels on the windows and annoncements before the train leaves so you must be dreaming if you are the on wrong train by accident. To be honest I would have little sympathy is someone heading to Leeds was on it....

London - Leeds is valid via York anyway :P

 

[dk1]

I would guess that i have travelled out of Euston a dozen times since Christmas & am pleased to say a full barrier check has been under taken on every journey. They seem forceful but proffesional & will not take any excuses. Either your ticket is valid or it is not & i have no problem with this. better also to stop any fare evaders or pains in the backside from boarding rather than leaving it up to the poor train manager to deal with whilst en-route & on their own.

 

[yorkie]

. Either your ticket is valid or it is not & i have no problem with this.

Do you think they get it right all of the time?

 

[rail-britain]

It's always been timetabled to stop at Preston since it was introduced just over a year ago. When was this - a special occasion?

Apologies, it was the 16:33 to Preston on the opposite platform
The extra stop was at Rugby, allowing passengers to transfer back on to the Preston service
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Where do you get this wrong info?

Virgin Trains briefing pack for Summer 2010
It CLEARLY states that a £10 reservation fee may be payable
At present no reservation fee applies, but this allows them to apply it at any time

 

[A60K]

Apologies, it was the 16:33 to Preston on the opposite platform
The extra stop was at Rugby, allowing passengers to transfer back on to the Preston service

Ah, that makes sense. I've not used it, but surely it would make sense to keep those two services well apart at Euston given that there's only three minutes between departures. If the two trains are on the same island platform I can imagine passengers for Warrington seeing on the departures board that they need the train which terminates at Preston, asking someone on the platform 'is this the Preston train' and being directed to the Glasgow service because, yes, it is the Preston train in as much as it stops at Preston!

 

[Greenback]

If people have to ask then they should ask for where they are actually going to get off, it's not rocket science!

 

[Lampshade]

If people have to ask then they should ask for where they are actually going to get off, it's not rocket science!

Tell me about it, at Manchester Victoria before the Oldham Loop Line closed people would ask the staff "is this the Rochdale train?" to which a member of staff would reply "yes", they would then proceed to ask "does it stop at Oldham?"... why not just ask if it stopped at Oldham to start with given every Calder Valley service stops there, making a lot of trains 'Rochdale' trains :?

 

[313103]

Do you think they get it right all of the time?

They are human beings and not robots (despite what some tocs think), so my dear friend you have already answered your own question.

I know i dont get it right 110% of the time all the time, and i think that unless you are perfect you dont get right 110% of the time, all the time.

Humans unlike robots are subject to emotional problems ( although looking at the reliability of the class 378s lately you'd think they have got issues as well).

 

[dk1]

Do you think they get it right all of the time?

There is always room for slight mistakes on restriction times etc but from what i see revenue protection staff always listen to reason or enquire to check. Its those passengers AP tickets bought at a give-away price who think they can have all the flexability they like, that get my goat. Im afraid a few tears because they find themselves facing a £70 walk on fare wouldnt wash with me either. They try it on all the time & suppose you cannot blame them but when its a fare cop, shut up & pay up.

 

[313103]

If people have to ask then they should ask for where they are actually going to get off, it's not rocket science!

What is most annoying is that passengers do not tend to ask the correct question. For example A couple of years ago i was working a train from Stratford (London) to Clapham Junction at West Hampstead a passenger asked me if this is the train to Richmond i said No it is not, at this point the passenger boarded. At Kensal Rise on the same train a passenger asked if this was the Clapham Junction service i said yes it is, she promptly stayed on the platform.:roll::roll:

Most of the time i have to answer a question with a question.

 

[455driver]

Tell me about it, at Manchester Victoria before the Oldham Loop Line closed people would ask the staff "is this the Rochdale train?" to which a member of staff would reply "yes", they would then proceed to ask "does it stop at Oldham?"... why not just ask if it stopped at Oldham to start with given every Calder Valley service stops there, making a lot of trains 'Rochdale' trains :?

I reply with "sorry you are only allowed one question". The look on their faces says it all

 

[A60K]

If people have to ask then they should ask for where they are actually going to get off, it's not rocket science!

I know, I know As other people have also said though, sometimes there's a triangle between the question they ask and the information they seek!