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I'd suggest doing this (but beware that the RTT platform number is effectively only a guess* until the train actually comes in and the route is set for the outward journey, at which point it goes bold on RTT). It's what I do.
* I can't remember if RTT uses booked platforms or data based on previous running (or a bit of both) but either way platforms do often change.
I'd suggest doing this (but beware that the RTT platform number is effectively only a guess* until the train actually comes in and the route is set for the outward journey, at which point it goes bold on RTT). It's what I do.
* I can't remember if RTT uses booked platforms or data based on previous running (or a bit of both) but either way platforms do often change.
I think until it goes bold it's the timetabled number, and afterwards it's based on the train appearing on the signalling system. The other event which could be tracked is the associated arriving service turning up in a platform, but even if the associations are set up that would be risky because of late set swaps.
The route is rarely set until a minute or two before departure, so that won't get used.
I haven't used Euston for mainline services in many many years, so this is an outsider question. Not that I've been avoiding it, I just haven't needed it.
What difference do the big advert boards make? If they are showing nothing, or telling me to drive my new Audi* to Disneyland** while drinking Coke*** and phoning with Vodafone**** to renew your Direct Line***** insurance, isn't the effect to me the same? It is something I am not looking at because it does not have the information I need.
Or did the adverts provide enough dynamic content to stand and look at while waiting for the train to be announced, that that was the issue? I can't imagine a huge percentage of people choosing to go to Euston just to watch adverts?
* Other car brands are available
** Other travel destinations are available
*** Other drinks are available
**** Other mobile telephone networks are available
***** Other insurance companies are available
It makes no difference whatsoever, save that turned off it is losing Network Rail of potential revenue.
Of course "the Grown Ups" are - apparently - in charge, which means a very online Transport Secretary (27,000 posts on Twitter alone) who has her own taxpayer-funded personal vanity photographer has seen an online storm which happened because some Londoners had to go to Euston to travel to the Labour Party Conference in Liverpool. Said journalists and policy types as well as commenting on the overcrowding situation also posted lots of "omg how ghaastly they're showing advertising for common things like 'Coca Cola' when it could show the platforms where the trains are, yah" (without realising that even if there wasn't advertising, the train platforms wouldn't be shown ahead of time). And "the Grown Ups" decided that there's a photo-op and Twitter likes to be gained by saying she turned off the advertising screen. Media are happy. Twitter is happy and now believe the problem has been "solved" (presuming next year's Labour conference is in Brighton, they may not need to visit Euston again for two years or so). The large number of levels of people whose actual job it is to weigh these matters up (from station management team, up to regional team, up to NR board level, to junior rail minister, to rail minister) have been disregarded, but hey ho.
The large number of levels of people whose actual job it is to weigh these matters up (from station management team, up to regional team, up to NR board level, to junior rail minister, to rail minister) have been disregarded, but hey ho.
Largely because those people have utterly failed to solve a problem that's existed for 20-odd years (each change makes it worse in some way, as someone who's used the station at least weekly, sometimes daily, over the last 25 years or so) and needed a kick to actually do so, despite some of the solutions being obvious?
WMT and Avanti choose to operate in a way where they generate a high level of competition for seats, or even a standing space on trains departing from Euston. So people are already on edge. Combine this with frequently advertising the platform at very short notice and people are ready to surge. Boarding a train at Euston could probably feature as a task in The Hunger Games.
At London Bridge and Victoria, the trains are frequent, passengers know there are hundreds of seats on each train which are not blocked by reservations and the trains are advertised well in advance. With the low frequency services, passengers get to the station early knowing they can wait for their train and pick their favourite seat, a luxury not always available at Euston. The Uckfield train for instance, people are waiting on the platform for it when it arrives at London Bridge 15 minutes before it leaves.
The other issue with Euston, the concourse is on a higher level well away from the platforms, at the other stations the concourse is right next to the platforms, so you get the Euston scrum everytime a train is announced, it doesn't help that trains are called at Euston minutes before departure, more so if your train is on platforms 1 to 6 you have to go from the concourse down a corridor that can't cope with the rush, down the ramp, on to the platforms then onto the train, then you have the issue that platform closes 2 minutes before the train departs, it feels like the cavalry charge at start of the Grand National every time a train is called at Euston.
I'd suggest doing this (but beware that the RTT platform number is effectively only a guess* until the train actually comes in and the route is set for the outward journey, at which point it goes bold on RTT). It's what I do.
* I can't remember if RTT uses booked platforms or data based on previous running (or a bit of both) but either way platforms do often change.
That's a pity, although it's certainly unsafe the way everyone stampedes and I think that's the crux of the matter, wherever they put the departure boards and however they lay out the concourse. Can anyone really blame someone for wanting to know ahead to avoid that?
It makes no difference whatsoever, save that turned off it is losing Network Rail of potential revenue.
Of course "the Grown Ups" are - apparently - in charge, which means a very online Transport Secretary (27,000 posts on Twitter alone) who has her own taxpayer-funded personal vanity photographer has seen an online storm which happened because some Londoners had to go to Euston to travel to the Labour Party Conference in Liverpool. Said journalists and policy types as well as commenting on the overcrowding situation also posted lots of "omg how ghaastly they're showing advertising for common things like 'Coca Cola' when it could show the platforms where the trains are, yah" (without realising that even if there wasn't advertising, the train platforms wouldn't be shown ahead of time). And "the Grown Ups" decided that there's a photo-op and Twitter likes to be gained by saying she turned off the advertising screen. Media are happy. Twitter is happy and now believe the problem has been "solved" (presuming next year's Labour conference is in Brighton, they may not need to visit Euston again for two years or so). The large number of levels of people whose actual job it is to weigh these matters up (from station management team, up to regional team, up to NR board level, to junior rail minister, to rail minister) have been disregarded, but hey ho.
It has been widely derided and is clearly too big for the space it sits, and the dim lighting meant it was actually illuminating the concourse. The design of the concourse and its placement also meant it impossible to turn away from unlike say Waterloo. One Twitter users description that it was like being machined gunned in the woods by advertisers was quite apt.
No one had an issue with advertising here as there were two advertising screens here before for example without issue. But a screen of this scale was simply mis-specified, that being the absolutely largest screen they could possibly fit on the wall above the platform entrances. So large in fact it seems to even encroach onto the narrow strip of windows above.
What you've described above is a politician being a politician and appealing to common sentiment which should be no surprise. The fact that things got to that stage, along with all the other issues of station management, simply shows incompetence on the part of all those layers of management you've listed.
Just a thought but would relocating the ticket office out into one of the retail units in the cancer yard and moving the upended retailer, Burger King and whatever is along that wall in front of the platforms into the existing ticket office help? Would probably require a few banks of TVMs on the concourse but those wouldnt take up much space in reality.
Also and I acknowledge that this would cost a fortune. Would it be better if arriving passengers were fed into a lower level arrivals concourse and then leave the station from there rather than having to come up the ramp into a field of people. Again I acknowledge that would cost a fortune
Just a thought but would relocating the ticket office out into one of the retail units in the cancer yard and moving the upended retailer, Burger King and whatever is along that wall in front of the platforms into the existing ticket office help? Would probably require a few banks of TVMs on the concourse but those wouldnt take up much space in reality.
I'm not sure Burger King, Camden Food and Upper Crust would be a huge loss if they went entirely, or they could go outside, there is space for a couple more units on the forecourt. It would be nice to take evening trains without the unpleasant smell. Let them eat cake! (Or M&S butties).
Also and I acknowledge that this would cost a fortune. Would it be better if arriving passengers were fed into a lower level arrivals concourse and then leave the station from there rather than having to come up the ramp into a field of people. Again I acknowledge that would cost a fortune
If you just want access to platforms to spot, just sign in at the station reception and you'll be given a pass, same as any Network Rail major station.
If you want to use one to avoid the Avanti ticket checking, if they even exist I doubt that would be looked kindly upon.
If you want to go onto 8-11 nobody cares as long as you have some sort of ticket e.g. a paper Travelcard.
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London Bridge doesn't hide platforms (that I recall?)
Victoria does, though, and you do get a bit of a rush for Southern departures which are very similarly operated to the way WMT works and are of similar length, loading and frequency. The rush is less dangerous, though, for two reasons - one, that services to specific destinations use specific areas of the station so people are more spread out, and two, because Victoria is far less cramped than Euston (this is probably similar to the way Paddington has the issue but far less so).
One of the worst aspects of Euston for this is the narrow platform tunnel - removing Boots has helped massively, and I wonder if they'll now remove the WHS bookshop and HEMA on the other side to do the same for P1-3. Removing all the retail in the tunnel (BK, Upper Crust and Camden Food plus the presently unused ex-Starbucks unit) and widening it would probably help further.
On occasion you do have to wait for a platform at London Bridge, usually if a train is running in late, waiting to couple or they’re looking for the train crew, but this is the exception rather than the rule.
I think with WMT, people might be travelling longer distances and don’t necessarily want to have to wait a long time for a seat to become available, whereas a lot of Southern trains, people might find a seat at East Croydon. I’ve been on the platform at Euston at witnessed WMT trains packed to the gunnels with people unable to board. The way people sprint down the ramps, like their life depends on it isn’t replicated at other terminals, but other stations exist where long ramps have been a hazard for years.
Largely because those people have utterly failed to solve a problem that's existed for 20-odd years (each change makes it worse in some way, as someone who's used the station at least weekly, sometimes daily, over the last 25 years or so) and needed a kick to actually do so, despite some of the solutions being obvious?
To be fair, they had a solution. Build a new railway and a new station, co-located, to take away the majority of long distance services. That would then have freed up enough capacity at the legacy station to do a major improvement exercise.
Unfortunately, multiple layers of politics have gotten in the way of that plan.
Just a thought but would relocating the ticket office out into one of the retail units in the cancer yard and moving the upended retailer, Burger King and whatever is along that wall in front of the platforms into the existing ticket office help? Would probably require a few banks of TVMs on the concourse but those wouldnt take up much space in reality.
Also and I acknowledge that this would cost a fortune. Would it be better if arriving passengers were fed into a lower level arrivals concourse and then leave the station from there rather than having to come up the ramp into a field of people. Again I acknowledge that would cost a fortune
I think that your potential lower level concourse would have to be built very carefully to avoid impacting the tube station which is a bloody rabbit warren.
For you perhaps, but for many people the massive moving images and the cast of constantly changing coloured light across the concourse feels oppressive and stressful, as others have already said.
Every "real life" non enthusiast person I've spoken to about it has said they hate it. It's not just the fact that it replaced useful info boards.
I think with WMT, people might be travelling longer distances and don’t necessarily want to have to wait a long time for a seat to become available, whereas a lot of Southern trains, people might find a seat at East Croydon. I’ve been on the platform at Euston at witnessed WMT trains packed to the gunnels with people unable to board. The way people sprint down the ramps, like their life depends on it isn’t replicated at other terminals, but other stations exist where long ramps have been a hazard for years.
Aside from the Crewe, journey times are similar between Southern and WMT. And the rush is as bad for an MKC stopper as it is for a Birmingham semifast, there are just fewer wheelie bags to trip over.
For you perhaps, but for many people the massive moving images and the cast of constantly changing coloured light across the concourse feels oppressive and stressful, as others have already said.
Every "real life" non enthusiast person I've spoken to about it has said they hate it. It's not just the fact that it replaced useful info boards.
It makes no difference whatsoever, save that turned off it is losing Network Rail of potential revenue.
Of course "the Grown Ups" are - apparently - in charge, which means a very online Transport Secretary (27,000 posts on Twitter alone) who has her own taxpayer-funded personal vanity photographer has seen an online storm which happened because some Londoners had to go to Euston to travel to the Labour Party Conference in Liverpool. Said journalists and policy types as well as commenting on the overcrowding situation also posted lots of "omg how ghaastly they're showing advertising for common things like 'Coca Cola' when it could show the platforms where the trains are, yah" (without realising that even if there wasn't advertising, the train platforms wouldn't be shown ahead of time). And "the Grown Ups" decided that there's a photo-op and Twitter likes to be gained by saying she turned off the advertising screen. Media are happy. Twitter is happy and now believe the problem has been "solved" (presuming next year's Labour conference is in Brighton, they may not need to visit Euston again for two years or so). The large number of levels of people whose actual job it is to weigh these matters up (from station management team, up to regional team, up to NR board level, to junior rail minister, to rail minister) have been disregarded, but hey ho.
The large number of levels of people whose actual job it is to weigh these matters up (from station management team, up to regional team, up to NR board level, to junior rail minister, to rail minister) have been disregarded, but hey ho.
Those 'large number of levels of people' have so far failed to turn Euston around and have instead made it progressively worse at each change.
External interventions to wake them from their group think appear to be an absolute necessity. I'd not be surprised to see a respected industry figure sent in to bang heads.
External interventions to wake them from their group think appear to be an absolute necessity. I'd not be surprised to see a respected industry figure sent in to bang heads.
As I've said before ,I don't think it will change until someone is badly injured or sadly killed ( shades of Bethnal green disaster). Then " mistakes were made".
As I've said before ,I don't think it will change until someone is badly injured or sadly killed ( shades of Bethnal green disaster). Then " mistakes were made".
The situation at Euston is far worse at weekends, in my experience. On weekdays it's often regular travellers who generally 'know the drill'. At weekends it's friends and family going for a day out, many of whom don't know Euston. Add in some hi-jinx and a bit of alcohol and it's not difficult to see how problems can occur.
Why is it different to other London Terminals?
Euston is 50+ years old. Other London Terminals (eg Kings Cross, London Bridge, Liverpool Street, Paddington etc) have had money spent to imprive things. Euston hasn't.
At busy times Euston's services are very busy. This isn't unique to Euston but the 'outer suburban' services generally run less frequently than from other London Termini (eg the LNE Crewe service is one an hour - compared to GTR to Peterborough, GTR to Brighton etc)
Because people know the services are busy, understandably they want to try their best to get a seat (NB compulsory reservatiuons isn't the answer - Avanti already act as though they have them)
The trains are not visible from the concourse and access is via ramps that is not ideal, especially Platforms 1-3
Trains often get announced only a few minutes before departure, resulting in a 'stampede'
If platforms were advertised earlier then this might help matters but there seems to be an aversion to doing this, even for LNR services where this always used to happen.
What needs to happen:
Additional capacity so that more trains can run. Maybe a couple of additional tracks to the midlands......
A rebuild of the station. Additional platforms to accommodate extra services and a larger concourse. Future proofed for the next 50-100 years.....
Anything else will just be a sticking plaster.
There were, of course, plans for all of this........
Though making it easier for walk up ticket holders to get one optionally via a TVM or the Avanti app, with seat selector, may help. The more people have reservations, the fewer have to rush.
So can we now expect the SofS to get involved in all sorts of minutiae of railway operations? The micro-management of the rail network by politicians and DfT rarely ends happily.
I think this is actually an example of macro-managing (ie. micromanaging would be her telling an individual staff member how best to shout through a megaphone lol)
I went to Willesden Junction after work today and my journey planner showed that changing at Euston was the first choice so I changed at Euston.
Unfortunately when I arrived the station, the next train was 14 minutes away as I was faster than the journey planner by 8 minutes on my previous leg. Although the platform wasn't announced yet regular commuters know the train to Watford Junction always departs from platform 9, and the platform can be freely accessed as long as I have a ticket. None of the things mentioned in this post happen on the suburban line platforms 8-11.
Anyone remember what Euston was like before ticket barriers, people walking up platforms and sitting there. Was there the same issues or not? Admittedly less passengers in those day but still.
Anyone remember what Euston was like before ticket barriers, people walking up platforms and sitting there. Was there the same issues or not? Admittedly less passengers in those day but still.
Wasn't really any different. I tended to predict the departing platforms from the arrivals with a fairly good level of success before Realtime Trains was a thing (it helped to know what formed what, which was a fairly easy pattern on Silverlink/LM), but most people just waited up top.
It makes no difference whatsoever, save that turned off it is losing Network Rail of potential revenue.
Of course "the Grown Ups" are - apparently - in charge, which means a very online Transport Secretary (27,000 posts on Twitter alone) who has her own taxpayer-funded personal vanity photographer has seen an online storm which happened because some Londoners had to go to Euston to travel to the Labour Party Conference in Liverpool. Said journalists and policy types as well as commenting on the overcrowding situation also posted lots of "omg how ghaastly they're showing advertising for common things like 'Coca Cola' when it could show the platforms where the trains are, yah" (without realising that even if there wasn't advertising, the train platforms wouldn't be shown ahead of time). And "the Grown Ups" decided that there's a photo-op and Twitter likes to be gained by saying she turned off the advertising screen. Media are happy. Twitter is happy and now believe the problem has been "solved" (presuming next year's Labour conference is in Brighton, they may not need to visit Euston again for two years or so). The large number of levels of people whose actual job it is to weigh these matters up (from station management team, up to regional team, up to NR board level, to junior rail minister, to rail minister) have been disregarded, but hey ho.
Yeah, one of the advantages of living in a democracy is that when the masters of a publicly funded asset lose the plot, they’re directly elected boss can pick up the phone and point that out.
Feel free to find me a single passenger that thinks the people who run Euston are weighting matters up correctly. You don’t get a free pass just because you have a job title.
Anyone remember what Euston was like before ticket barriers, people walking up platforms and sitting there. Was there the same issues or not? Admittedly less passengers in those day but still.
I used Euston a lot in the mid-1970s, for both InterCity; what we used to call ‘residential’ services towards Bletchley and Northampton; and the DC. This period saw the launch of the Electric Scots and greatly enhanced residentials.
The single 10-column ‘Solari’ departure indicator, flanked by massive illuminated advertising displays, usually promoting cigarettes, could sometimes only show around 25-30 minutes ahead, so some destinations were ‘invisible’ at any given moment. There could still be a build-up of (say) Holyhead or Glasgow passengers awaiting news of their train.
I don’t remember ever waiting ‘on the platform’.
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