Euston overcrowding

[All Line Rover]

I've never known the pictured situation arise in all my time using Euston - normally going onto 8-11 when you want is fine.

I've seen it several times over the past several years.

 

[Kite159]

One of the problems with Euston is the gateline for 8-11 isn't big enough. Network Rail made the approach wider by removing the old LNR ticket office and other retail outlets but didn't make any changes to the gateline.

It's a complete nightmare when you get 3 trains arriving within a couple minutes of each other on those platforms (an Overground followed by a LNR from Milton Keynes then a LNR from Birmingham) which don't have a long turnaround with crowds building to exit as well as crowds building to board those 350s. Made worse when one of those trains is delayed or the previous train had been cancelled which makes passengers want to use the manual gate to keep hold of tickets.

 

[All Line Rover]

I've commuted into and out of Euston for 20+ years and tonight was the worst management I've ever seen and pretty dangerous.

I'm usually pretty laid back and disruption and crowds happen but tonight was so bad I wanted to share my experience.

I arrived about 1730 and came up through the underground tunnel to platforms 8-11 hoping to catch the 1739. As I came up the stairs there were a lot of people standing around and all the platform indicators displayed the 'platform closed' message, which told me there must be delays.

I waited there for a couple of mins and then the Overground to Watford Junction was displayed on platform 8 indicators, I excused myself through the crowd to the front ready to go through the barriers. This is when I discovered all the barriers had all been set to exit only meaning we could not get onto the platform to wait for the arrival of the 1744 to WJ.

As I was now at the front I could hear all the interactions with the LNWR staff and people asking to be let through. The main excuse was that we can't let you through as you can't have too many people on the platform as the overhead electrics are dangerous...

By this point we had been joined by A LOT of people from the main concourse as the Overground has obviously been advertised and people made their way down to find out they couldn't get through the barriers. There was about 400-500 people on the ramp before the barriers and staff were not letting us through to fairly empty platforms.

The LNWR staff keep telling us we shouldn't be down here but the Overground train was advertised as boarding on all the indicators so sensibly people wanted to join that train.

Then a incoming LNWR train arrived and then that exiting crowd had nowhere to go against the 400-500 people completely blocking the ramp and underground tunnel.

Then the Overground arrived and again they would not let us through and so all these people tried to battle through. It was only then they allowed us onto the platform and then that caused a bit of a rush as the Overground was due to leave.

It was really awful and something really needs to be done as it was badly managed and really dangerous. Limited staff on the platform and gate line and no one seemed to be in control and most of the announcements inaudible.

Sone photo attached.

Thank you to the OP for these photos. Network Rail doesn't want the media to see this farce.

I can see several CCTV cameras at the top of the OP's photos. I wonder who reviews the footage and decides whether to archive it?

 

[Bletchleyite]

One of the problems with Euston is the gateline for 8-11 isn't big enough. Network Rail made the approach wider by removing the old LNR ticket office and other retail outlets but didn't make any changes to the gateline.

There's not much they can do. The Tube entrance gets in the way of any scope to rejig it significantly, and it wouldn't be feasible to close it because there's not enough capacity at the main one.

The station just isn't fit for purpose any more.

 

[sheff1]

When did the scramble in Euston become a thing? Has it been a 'feature' of the station since the rebuild or was it added later?

No such issues when I was travelling frequently between the West Midlands and Euston in the 70s/80s. When the Inter City Shuttle was in operation a train was always in the platform at Euston available to board at one's leisure.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No such issues when I was travelling frequently between the West Midlands and Euston in the 70s/80s. When the Inter City Shuttle was in operation a train was always in the platform at Euston available to board at one's leisure.

Interestingly that's the case at Manchester Picc for Euston services - normally there are two there at once, a bit of disruption and it's not unknown to see three. It does make it a lot more civilised.

 

[signed]

Announcing platforms very late usually allows to prevent change-of-platform rush if there is a last minute change

But it seems at Euston, it is not well implemented

 

[Bletchleyite]

Announcing platforms very late usually allows to prevent change-of-platform rush if there is a last minute change

Instead, it causes a rush for EVERY departure!

Suppressing platforms doesn't work.

 

[dk1]

When did the scramble in Euston become a thing? Has it been a 'feature' of the station since the rebuild or was it added later?

Probably more so after VHF in 2008. It was always a thing at times of disruption and tight turnarounds as you would expect.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Probably more so after VHF in 2008. It was always a thing at times of disruption and tight turnarounds as you would expect.

It's been a thing since basically forever. I remember Ben Elton (I think) doing a sketch about it in the early 90s - "double seat, double seat, gotta get a double seat!"

Here it is - Comic Relief 1986!

It didn't happen on local services out of Euston until the operation of the CIS was transferred from Virgin Trains to Network Rail in the 2000s some time - those platforms weren't suppressed, and it worked much better when they weren't. There was at one point even a printed paper list of departures down in the Tube station!

 

[sheff1]

It's been a thing since basically forever.

As I said, it was not a thing in my experience in the 70s/80s.

 

[RJ]

I worked at Euston from 2010-2011 and it wasn’t as bad then, except for when multiple trains were advertised at exactly the same time. There wasn’t the frenzied sprinting that is normal now. The long distance trains were pretty reliably called 20 minutes before departure.

 

[yorksrob]

Thanks. (I’ve not commuted from ‘south of the river’ for nigh on 40 years.)

So, to make sure that I’ve got this right, at stations like Charing Cross, Waterloo, Victoria and Liverpool Street (surface level) it is now routine to go to ‘all barriers open’ during major disruption/crowding, so that delayed passengers can spread out?

They're mostly electronic barriers now, do if the ticket lets you through, you go through as soon as the train is announced.

 

[jon0844]

I assume they don't like people on the platform when a train comes in (which makes sense for IC trains, but 'local' ones?) and they were likely also concerned at how to get the arriving passengers out. So I assume someone thinks you keep everyone on the concourse and then there's room for people to safely alight and leave, then you get people down to board.

If people are already being invited to board, or not staying on the concourse and crowding the gates then there is certainly a problem and I would say that the passengers who are crowding the corridors/gates are partly to blame, but are only doing it because they see 'boarding' and fear missing the train. This is why I guess they hide trains, but then people can still see them on OTT and other apps (or knowing the layout of the station and which platforms can be used and which can't).

I'm not sure what the solution is, but it would seem that you'd perhaps make the exception for the Overground trains and allow people to enter, to clear the queues. However, I am sure that it won't take long until some passengers see an opportunity to get in and then wander around for other trains.

Euston is clearly a mess. It relies on so many things to get right, and once things are out of control I can't see how you recover unless you close the station and force everyone outside (but risking a mini riot). Euston needs to take into account passenger behaviour, as they can't just hope people will hang back to make room. It's a dog eat dog world, so everyone is looking to get an advantage.

At the very least, perhaps announcements should be made to explain the situation and that nobody will miss their train - please keep clear to allow people off the train etc etc. Those without earbuds might respond positively.

 

[signed]

I assume they don't like people on the platform when a train comes in (which makes sense for IC trains, but 'local' ones?) and they were likely also concerned at how to get the arriving passengers out. So I assume someone thinks you keep everyone on the concourse and then there's room for people to safely alight and leave, then you get people down to board.

If it was a through-station sure, for a Termini, that makes absolutely no sense.

I don't know what the turnaround time on LNR/WMT or AWC is, but I would assume most IC trains have sat around for at least an hour, while being re-catered, prepared, etc... before departing again.

If the train is there, stopped, why doesn't it open 20 min beforehand?

 

[jon0844]

For a Termini, that makes absolutely no sense.

I don't know what the turnaround on LNR/WMT or AWC is, but I would assume most trains have sat around for at least an hour, while being re-catered, prepared, etc... before departing again.

If the train is there, why doesn't it open 20 min beforehand?

Depends on the platforms. How wide they are, will people get in the way of others. In my experience, if you have people on the platform when an IC train arrives, many are going to try and board at the same time as people are getting off. People seem to board in a panic, and forget about anything and everyone else. They won't want to wait for staff to go through and clean, restock etc.

That's why platforms are either closed or trains are simply not advertised. Those who want the edge by using an app to see their train will nearly always know to hang back and be respectful. Don't believe that everyone is like that though.

I am sure Euston has years of historical data/evidence to justify not allowing everyone to use the platforms to wait for trains, and that's before considering what happens if they do a unit swap or a train changes platform last minute.

Now for a train that has arrived and sat empty for an hour or more, you could advertise it earlier - but are many trains standing around like that? Perhaps outside of the peaks, when the passenger numbers are going to be lower anyway so it doesn't really count.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Depends on the platforms. How wide they are, will people get in the way of others. In my experience, if you have people on the platform when an IC train arrives, many are going to try and board at the same time as people are getting off. People seem to board in a panic, and forget about anything and everyone else. They won't want to wait for staff to go through and clean, restock etc.

That's why platforms are either closed or trains are simply not advertised. Those who want the edge by using an app to see their train will nearly always know to hang back and be respectful. Don't believe that everyone is like that though.

I am sure Euston has years of historical data/evidence to justify not allowing everyone to use the platforms to wait for trains, and that's before considering what happens if they do a unit swap or a train changes platform last minute.

Now for a train that has arrived and sat empty for an hour or more, you could advertise it earlier - but are many trains standing around like that? Perhaps outside of the peaks, when the passenger numbers are going to be lower anyway so it doesn't really count.

What people are asking for with Avanti, is the train comes in and passengers get off, cleaners, etc get on. Train locked, platform announced, passengers allowed to start coming onto platform if they want. Train unlocked and boards when ready.

Present system is platform not announced till a couple of minutes before departure, then a short countdown commences till platform closes and everyone has to race at full pelt to get to platform. Unfit passengers get left behind. Meanwhile railway managers are left scratching their heads why more people don't travel by train.

 

[stuu]

One of the problems with Euston is the gateline for 8-11 isn't big enough. Network Rail made the approach wider by removing the old LNR ticket office and other retail outlets but didn't make any changes to the gateline.

It's a complete nightmare when you get 3 trains arriving within a couple minutes of each other on those platforms (an Overground followed by a LNR from Milton Keynes then a LNR from Birmingham) which don't have a long turnaround with crowds building to exit as well as crowds building to board those 350s. Made worse when one of those trains is delayed or the previous train had been cancelled which makes passengers want to use the manual gate to keep hold of tickets.

I wonder if HS2 works have made this worse? When I used to commute into Euston up to 2010, it was very common for LM (as was) trains to be routed into platforms 16 and 17 in the peak. Obviously that option doesn't exist now. Do the LNWR trains ever use anything other than 8-11 now?

 

[signed]

but are many trains standing around like that? Perhaps outside of the peaks, when the passenger numbers are going to be lower anyway so it doesn't really count.

Another thread seems to indicate that turnaround is probably closer to ~30 min, so, it might be short but still, I am pretty sure you can do as @Deafdoggie is saying.

As a point of reference (I understand the systems are different but still), in France (notably one of the worst countries in terms of crowd control), 99% of trains are announced 20 min beforehand and it does just fine.

A local station to me, Rennes, has hourly double set TGV coming and splitting (to different destinations)/joining there with sizable exit and entry volumes, 20 min is dealt very swiftly.
They even implemented 2TMV (2 trains sur la même voie) where two wholly different destinations TER services sits on the same track. This causes chaos because people don't pay attention to the train destination, but not that much.

 

[jon0844]

When I went from Paris to Barcelona, I thought the station was pretty much like Euston and there was a rush to board. Given the length of the train, the crowd soon dispersed as people spread out, but I wouldn't say the experience was much better than here.

Admittedly, it was a fully booked service and in the middle of summer. It was far more civilised when returning, but only because everyone was held upstairs until boarding commenced (and then filtered through very slowly). As everyone had a reservation, there was no need to panic - although I think the usual problem for IC services is people aren't so much worried about getting their reserved seat, but finding a place to store their bag.

 

[signed]

Yeah, Paris stations are a mess since 99% of services in the star patterns depend on them, they are at capacity (especially Gare de Lyon and Montparnasse), so it can be rammed.

 

[Hadders]

Do the LNWR trains ever use anything other than 8-11 now?

Yes, they routinely do use other platforms.

 

[Taunton]

The ORR has issued an improvement notice on Network Rail over crowd management at Euston. I don't know what the outcome of this is but I would encourage anyone witnessing anything dangerous to report it to the ORR.

That just seems to be bureaucracy, issuing an "Improvement Notice". Clearly this bit of paper being bandied around (which took the ORR years to write it seems) has served no useful purpose whatsoever.

Regarding the stampede when trains are announced, part is to get a seat before they are all gone, with minimalist accommodation provided, and part because it's generally known that the key issue for rail management is only whether the train departs on scheduled time, regardless of whether the passengers have managed to get there or not, and regardless of whether the train was advised in good time or at the last minute. On time departure is MEASURED in management reviews. The rest is not.

 

[InTheEastMids]

Thank you to the OP for these photos. Network Rail doesn't want the media to see this farce.

I can see several CCTV cameras at the top of the OP's photos. I wonder who reviews the footage and decides whether to archive it?

Basically all rail stations have CCTV coverage and a station like Euston I would expect it to be very extensive. The footage would normally be kept for a period that would be in Network Rail's data protection policy, but I think 1-2 weeks is usually the most common.

If OP was minded to, then they could submit a subject access request to Network Rail for CCTV footage of themselves.
This might also have the unfortunate effect of providing a grandstand view of the overcrowding.

 

[The Planner]

I wonder if HS2 works have made this worse? When I used to commute into Euston up to 2010, it was very common for LM (as was) trains to be routed into platforms 16 and 17 in the peak. Obviously that option doesn't exist now. Do the LNWR trains ever use anything other than 8-11 now?

16 is still there. Its made very little difference in reality.

 

[BRX]

the real retraining need is of (some of) the passengers...

There's very extensive evidence from research into crowd behaviour & resultant disasters that it never makes sense to try and blame individuals in the crowd. Nearly all such disasters could have been avoided by better design, planning and management.

 

[Mikey C]

What people are asking for with Avanti, is the train comes in and passengers get off, cleaners, etc get on. Train locked, platform announced, passengers allowed to start coming onto platform if they want. Train unlocked and boards when ready.

Present system is platform not announced till a couple of minutes before departure, then a short countdown commences till platform closes and everyone has to race at full pelt to get to platform. Unfit passengers get left behind. Meanwhile railway managers are left scratching their heads why more people don't travel by train.

Exactly. Even if you allow 10 minutes for the arriving passengers to leave the platform, that would make the journey experience for the departing passengers far more relaxed. Especially as so many people have seat reservations, so those people will be waiting next to their carriage, rather than everyone bunching in the same place.

 

[setdown]

Everything is obviously fine now, as the ORR are saying Network Rail have complied with their improvement notice.

Improvement notices 2023 | Office of Rail and Road

This page contains details of improvement notices issued in 2023.

www.orr.gov.uk

(Read: Notice issued to Network Rail Infrastructure Ltd on 26 September 2023)

• Issue date: 26 September 2023
• Compliance date: 21 November 2023, extended to 15 December 2023
• Status: Complied

I'm not actually sure what has changed to move from 'outstanding' to 'complied', but there we go.

 

[styles]

I honestly think it's a Hillsborough disaster waiting to happen.

I get that you want people to depart a train before starting to board it again, and ideally you want to clean it and do a walk-through in between; but the timescales are just far too short at Euston. Platforms are often announced like 2 minutes before scheduled departure, and of course we've drilled into passengers that train doors can close up to 2 minutes before departure. Not to mention all the people on flexible tickets scrambled for coaches C/U, or those with luggage wanting to get prime storage spots.

For years now there's been a strive to increase capacity on the network, but it's been so focussed on the rails and signals that we've neglected the stations.

The ORR in October called out Network Rail for this at Euston saying it's an unacceptable safety risk. They have to come up with some new ideas, and I don't really think taking away central departure boards is the answer.

It can't be a permanent solution that we keep significant portions of station space (the platforms) empty for the vast majority of the time. Maybe barriers are needed, with one-way systems, or guards against falling onto rails, or removing some furniture like the industrial bins stored on the platforms, or underground/overground waiting areas, or dare I say some compulsory purchasing of neighbouring land to expand, but something has to change.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Everything is obviously fine now, as the ORR are saying Network Rail have complied with their improvement notice.

Improvement notices 2023 | Office of Rail and Road

This page contains details of improvement notices issued in 2023.

www.orr.gov.uk

(Read: Notice issued to Network Rail Infrastructure Ltd on 26 September 2023)

I'm not actually sure what has changed to move from 'outstanding' to 'complied', but there we go.

If about 10 minutes ago was anything to go by, it was "achieved" by employing some security guards to stand around doing absolutely nothing. An utter waste of money.

Could be worse, could have them shouting at people, I suppose. But it is not fixed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jun 2024 ==

I honestly think it's a Hillsborough disaster waiting to happen.

I think it's important not to overtalk it. It very much isn't that because gatelines can be pushed through, so it's not going to end up with masses of people crushed against an immovable barrier.

It is a problem though. The station is utter purgatory to use at present.

The ORR in October called out Network Rail for this at Euston saying it's an unacceptable safety risk. They have to come up with some new ideas, and I don't really think taking away central departure boards is the answer.

It's made it worse. If the end board is turned on, it backs up that way, if it's off it causes crossways flows. It really does need putting back where it was, if they must have the advertising put it on the new screens.