Euston overcrowding

[Nippy]

The problem is the whole layout from Euston to Camden is optimised for the platform layout that is currently in place. So you’d have to remodel that as well. I think it would help a bit if more Avanti services used the 12-16 side as they do seem to be more concentrated on the 1-7 side.

 

[signed]

I don't think the layout (except for the departure boards but that has already been discussed) is really the issue for the overcrowding.

The dumbest policies by whoever (NR, Avanti/LNR or all three, I don't know) is the problem

 

[railfan99]

For context, the train forming the 11.13 (an 11 carriage Pendolino) arrived at 11.05.

The idea that, in the space of 6 minutes (if boarding closed at 11.11), 1000+ people can safely disembark from an 11 carriage train and another 1000+ people can safely board that train, when that train is located on a platform a considerable distance from the station concourse down a narrow ramp, is ludicrous.

Policy is to stop boarding two minutes prior to timetabled departure, but why not close the doors 60, or 30 seconds before? Isn't 60 seconds practice in Germany at terminal stations?

Some booked in say the front five cars will have time to reach "their" door, and it's difficult to walk though if one has a suitcase, but an extra minute would allow more to board.

At Gare de Lyon 18 months ago, there was a similar mad scramble with just a few minutes before scheduled departure for our TGV Duplex to Barcelona, but everyone seemed to manage, although they weren't competing with alighting passengers.

Does this train have recovery time inserted en route or at the end of its trip?

Maybe one solution is to let a predetermined number through to wait on the platform, and then the rest once the majority of alighting passengers have passed through the gates and are using the ramp or already on the concourse.

 

[SynthD]

Is this really just a people issue or will any of this chaos be partially solved once HS2 actually serves Euston?

It will be relieved, but it'll easily be visible as soon as the staffing practises become the limiting factor, during disruption.

I suspect that capacity be actually used by Network Rail announcing the start of a long overdue programme to upgrade the existing station - bit like they did a few years back at Kings Cross.

That was the original, full spend, plan. It seemed like it was an obvious, relatively cheap add on once HS2 was complete. It's necessary for the helpful exit towards Kings Cross/St Pancras.

 

[The Planner]

I was wondering if Euston's layout has something to do with their problems? Having the suburban/local annexe right in the middle of the station seems a little curious and appears to have been inherited from pre-rebuild days. Historically, east to west was Arrival/Suburban/Departure/Parcels and this was passed down to the 60's rebuild. Presumably with the run down of Watford services and prioritising long-distance traffic, this was perceived as being adequate at the time and for the near future and no attempt was made to change the overall arrangement.
If they had, say, moved the suburban/local annexe to the east side at rebuild, would there be still the same problems? Allowing the crowds in and out through a dedicated entrance onto Eversholt Street rather than forcing them through the main concourse maybe have been a more desirable layout. Was it considered at the time?

You still need to use Line X for fast departures, its the real get of jail card at Euston for the low side.

 

[Taunton]

The various flying junctions at Camden Town (1920s design, for the DC electric line) were laid out to put the local services into the middle of the station, so the design was pretty much set in stone from then. Using the old empty carriage line underpass from the low numbered platforms for departures from there, now trains turn round at the platform, may seem a "clever" rearrangement, but it's no more than used to be done with empty stock from arrivals departing to the sidings.

It's still not apparent just what measures were found by the ORR to have "fixed" the overcrowding issues. Could it be they think the new departure boards have achieved this perfection?

 

[Tester]

The various flying junctions at Camden Town (1920s design, for the DC electric line) were laid out to put the local services into the middle of the station, so the design was pretty much set in stone from then. Using the old empty carriage line underpass from the low numbered platforms for departures from there, now trains turn round at the platform, may seem a "clever" rearrangement, but it's no more than used to be done with empty stock from arrivals departing to the sidings.

It's still not apparent just what measures were found by the ORR to have "fixed" the overcrowding issues. Could it be they think the new departure boards have achieved this perfection?

Interestingly I can date when the upgrading to passenger standards (and renaming from Down Empty Carriage to Down Departure) was done, as it was my first job on the railway as a trainee - 1973.

Feeling old now!

 

[Dr Hoo]

Interestingly I can date when the upgrading to passenger standards (and renaming from Down Empty Carriage to Down Departure) was done, as it was my first job on the railway as a trainee - 1973.

Feeling old now!

Ah yes! I was there too. The Down Departure was the key to the intensified outer suburban service and new Glasgow electrification, half-hourly West Midlands and so on.

 

[Skiddaw]

I wish they'd revamp the bogs too. I've obviously not experienced the mens toilets but the ladies is awful!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wish they'd revamp the bogs too. I've obviously not experienced the mens toilets but the ladies is awful!

The men's stink.

I don't understand why good ventilation is so hard, they are actually up against the outside wall so it should be really easy to achieve.

 

[Skiddaw]

I can well believe it.

The ladies is horrid. I always wince when I'm in there, imagining how it must come across to tourists/visitors to London.

 

[Trainbike46]

I can well believe it.

The ladies is horrid. I always wince when I'm in there, imagining how it must come across to tourists/visitors to London.

I mean, non-uk tourists would be arriving at Paddington (from Heathrow), St Pancras (Eurostar, from Luton), Liverpool street (from Stansted), Victoria (from Gatwick) or London Bridge (from Gatwick). I believe all of those have better toilets, compared to Euston. So for the tourists we're sorted (jk)

While Euston (men's) toilets aren't great, they're far from the worst station toilets I've encountered. I agree they could do with improved ventilation though!

 

[modernrail]

I mean, non-uk tourists would be arriving at Paddington (from Heathrow), St Pancras (Eurostar, from Luton), Liverpool street (from Stansted), Victoria (from Gatwick) or London Bridge (from Gatwick). I believe all of those have better toilets, compared to Euston. So for the tourists we're sorted (jk)

While Euston (men's) toilets aren't great, they're far from the worst station toilets I've encountered. I agree they could do with improved ventilation though!

They are the worst I have experienced in London terminus stations by a long way. Hideous crappy little things and in a truly stupid location.

I think there is an argument for moving them to two thirds of ticket office area now much less space is needed for ticket selling.

There is also a strong argument for sticking a roof over the outside courtyard and banning smoking out there.

 

[Mikey C]

I mean, non-uk tourists would be arriving at Paddington (from Heathrow), St Pancras (Eurostar, from Luton), Liverpool street (from Stansted), Victoria (from Gatwick) or London Bridge (from Gatwick). I believe all of those have better toilets, compared to Euston. So for the tourists we're sorted (jk)

While Euston (men's) toilets aren't great, they're far from the worst station toilets I've encountered. I agree they could do with improved ventilation though!

The STP toilets (at the north part of the station) are way too small, certainly the ladies are, hence there are massive queues outside the ladies. Indeed the ones at London Bridge were way too small, necessitating a new set of toilets to be built.

 

[Backroom_boy]

The STP toilets (at the north part of the station) are way too small, certainly the ladies are, hence there are massive queues outside the ladies. Indeed the ones at London Bridge were way too small, necessitating a new set of toilets to be built.

Yes even from the outside it feels like the ladies must be a much smaller space with perhaps not even the same cubicle number as the gents let alone extra to make up for lack of urinals.

 

[Kumquat]

Yes even from the outside it feels like the ladies must be a much smaller space with perhaps not even the same cubicle number as the gents let alone extra to make up for lack of urinals.

I counted the other day - I think there's ten cubicles, but also it's a bit of a tight fit to get people up and down the row to them with all their bags.

There's usually a queue out into the corridor but it works out as about one person per cubicle waiting. Better than the main StP toilets which have more space but often longer queues for the ladies.

 

[Mikey C]

I counted the other day - I think there's ten cubicles, but also it's a bit of a tight fit to get people up and down the row to them with all their bags.

There's usually a queue out into the corridor but it works out as about one person per cubicle waiting. Better than the main StP toilets which have more space but often longer queues for the ladies.

To me those toilets ARE the main toilets at STP! Certainly for domestic passengers (Thameslink, SE and EMR), and also for the main "useful" shops, left luggage, Wetherspoon etc

Either way, they feel a bit crammed in, poorly located and a curious narrow shape, as if they were an afterthought.

 

[Peter0124]

Pet peeve of mine is when the cubicles don't provide a hook to put your jacket. Some do, some don't but its far more convenient to have my jacket on the hook than on the top of the door.

 

[TheTallOne]

Pet peeve of mine is when the cubicles don't provide a hook to put your jacket. Some do, some don't but its far more convenient to have my jacket on the hook than on the top of the door.

Another option is putting the loop (if the coat has one) through the lock before locking the door.

 

[KT550]

I'm at Euston now and was surprised to see the platform for the LNR to New Street displayed 22 minutes before departure.

 

[moogal]

I'm at Euston now and was surprised to see the platform for the LNR to New Street displayed 22 minutes before departure.

They seem to swing both ways with the LNR services - sometimes 5 minutes, sometimes as much as 30 minutes.

 

[Tarquin88]

They're mostly electronic barriers now, do if the ticket lets you through, you go through as soon as the train is announced.

I worked at Euston from 2010-2011 and it wasn’t as bad then, except for when multiple trains were advertised at exactly the same time. There wasn’t the frenzied sprinting that is normal now. The long distance trains were pretty reliably called 20 minutes before departure.

Last week 0930 London Euston to Glasgow departed from Platform 6 (Mon), 13, 1, 13, 4 and 3 (Sat).

Is it usually as seemingly random as this?

If I have a ticket (code 9I) which prohibits departure before 0926 (Mon-Fri) am I likely to be denied access to the platform until 0926?

 

[yorksrob]

Last week 0930 London Euston to Glasgow departed from Platform 6 (Mon), 13, 1, 13, 4 and 3 (Sat).

Is it usually as seemingly random as this?

If I have a ticket (code 9I) which prohibits departure before 0926 (Mon-Fri) am I likely to be denied access to the platform until 0926?

TBH, I don't use Euston enough these days to tell.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would have thought not for Avanti services as trains are boarded individually so access is allowed only for each train when boarding is called. At other times some platforms may be physically accessible but expect to be challenged by security or BTP if you do, aside from 8-11 which Avanti don't use.

On the other hand never say never as Avanti staff have form for denying perfectly valid tickets...

 

[Watershed]

Last week 0930 London Euston to Glasgow departed from Platform 6 (Mon), 13, 1, 13, 4 and 3 (Sat).

Is it usually as seemingly random as this?

If I have a ticket (code 9I) which prohibits departure before 0926 (Mon-Fri) am I likely to be denied access to the platform until 0926?

Of those platforms, only 1 and 3 have automated ticket barriers. The rest are manually checked so the staff will know which train you are boarding.

Even for 1 and 3, if the barriers reject your ticket then the staff should let you through as again, they will know which train you are boarding (plat 1 has its own gateline and 2 & 3 share a gateline but most of the time there's just one train boarding at a time).

 

[DynamicSpirit]

As if the way Euston is managed couldn't get any sillier... When I was travelling from Euston a couple of weeks ago, this is what had been done with one of the departure boards:



(Picture shows a Euston departure board, displaying nothing except a message saying that there are no engineering works).

So a board that could've been showing useful departure information was instead set up to show something that provides basically no value: If trains are running fine, then that can be much more usefully conveyed by a list of actual departures! Devoting the board entirely to saying there are no engineering works meant that the part of the concourse in front of that board became unusable to waiting passengers - since anyone waiting there wouldn't be able to see any train information. The obvious result was all the people waiting for trains ended up squashed into an even smaller space than usual!

The mind boggles at how anyone could think that using a departure board in this way could ever be a good idea.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's been done to prevent people standing blocking the main entrance, a problem any regular Euston user could have identified from the day the idiotic things were installed.

Removing that one entirely and leaving only the other one would work better (about 2/3 of people enter that side, 1/3 the other side, I reckon).

 

[Deafdoggie]

Trains running is such an unusual event it has to be promoted

 

[nlogax]

Deployment of boards such as these just wouldn't fly at the other end of the WCML. GC's departure boards were swapped out for improved displays only last year. In exactly the same place as before which means they continue to -not- inhibit passenger flow. Why does Euston have to suffer this sort of pointless dreck which adds to the overcrowding?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Deployment of boards such as these just wouldn't fly at the other end of the WCML. GC's departure boards were swapped out for improved displays only last year. In exactly the same place as before which means they continue to -not- inhibit passenger flow. Why does Euston have to suffer this sort of pointless dreck which adds to the overcrowding?

Because Euston's management are grossly incompetent? They know what the problems are and repeatedly come up with useless non-solutions to them which make things worse.

To be fair this arrangement does work at Paddington, but that's because the main entrance in passenger volume terms (the way in from the Tube) is in the middle between the two, not at one end.