Euston overcrowding

[duffield]

Compared to other stations nearby (KGX, STP, even Waterloo) that all have free loos, the toilets at Euston are worse.

In my view, the biggest problem with the Euston toilets is that the ladies' isn't big enough, judging by the queues outside them I regularly see. The gent's at least doesn't have queues and most things work (though I never use the cubicles).

The women's toilets at St. Pancras are far too small as well, ridiculous queues are frequent. The men's toilets are just about adequate for the numbers, however I find them a bit narrow and oppressive (although they do seem to be almost continuously cleaning them).

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

I think it partly contributes, HS2 worksite staff and contractors seem to be using the Euston facilities regularly, which in addition to the usual passenger volume cannot be helping matters at all.

Obviously they're not for the most part, intentionally damaging or vandalising the facilities, but it's all increased wear and tear, especially if they're in their worksite gear, as they often seem to be.

Euston does also seem to attract a lot more beggars and drug users than KGX and STP. I can't remember the last time I used Euston and wasn't asked for money.

 

[Geml246]

The women's toilets at St. Pancras are far too small as well, ridiculous queues are frequent. The men's toilets are just about adequate for the numbers, however I find them a bit narrow and oppressive (although they do seem to be almost continuously cleaning them).

There are two sets of toilets at St Pancras however.

 

[Bald Rick]

I use the new toilets at Euston, just across Eversholt St…

 

[Chrius56000]

. . .Just got to Euston twenty minutes before the 14.56 LNWR to New Street goes with yet another piece of very heavy electronic gear and they'd opened the barriers to let everyone get on the train in comfort for a change!!

 

[Jimini]

I use the new toilets at Euston, just across Eversholt St…

The new-ish 'Spoons?

 

[Jamiescott1]

Euston toilets were a disgrace even when they were charging 30p a go.

I used to work near Euston and if we were running out of change for the till we'd go change some notes in the "change machines' outside the toilets.

For a £20 note it would give 19 x£1 coins and then £1 of silver coins to give enough change for the toilets.
We'd often change £80+

 

[Dr Hoo]

. . .Just got to Euston twenty minutes before the 14.56 LNWR to New Street goes with yet another piece of very heavy electronic gear and they'd opened the barriers to let everyone get on the train in comfort for a change!!

? No ticket check. Just breeze through?

 

[duffield]

There are two sets of toilets at St Pancras however.

Right. I've only used the ones next to W.H.Smith, I don't usually have the need to go to the other end. I wonder if the women's queues are worse or better at the other toilets? Not that it affects me, just curious. Anyhow I guess I'm wandering too far from the subject, Euston, and yes the toilets there are some of the worst, much inferior to St. Pancras.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This evening it looks much as normal, with WMT trains being called relatively late (the 1639 11 minutes before despite having been at the platform for some time, for instance). This was done just as an inbound train entered 10 thus causing a two way crowd issue.

Not fixed. It really is simple - just turn off suppression for WMT entirely, or if they must call the train as soon as the platform is empty of the previous departure.

 

[crablab]

Euston rail passengers to be allowed to board trains early to ease overcrowding

Network Rail says about 40% of Avanti West Coast services will be accessible 20 minutes before departure

www.theguardian.com

Passengers using London’s Euston railway station will be allowed to board some services early in an attempt to ease persistent overcrowding.

Network Rail has said it would allow passengers to board about 40% of Avanti West Coast services from the station 20 minutes before departure.

Avanti West Coast is the chief rail operator between London and big cities on the west coast main line, such as Birmingham, Liverpool and Glasgow.

The scheme comes after London Travelwatch raised safety concerns over Euston earlier this month, warning that passengers were being put at danger by high levels of overcrowding.

The capital’s travel watchdog also said that passengers were still having to rush to platforms because of last-minute announcements, while staff often appeared “overwhelmed by the sheer number of people”.

To combat this, Network Rail has confirmed an early boarding trial on 40% of Avanti services; it expected to be available on 55% of trains in the weeks running up to Christmas.

The Guardian understands that there is no standard time for how early passengers can board trains but for commuter trains it is usually about six minutes, with intercity trains longer because they need to be cleaned and restocked.

From last week, travellers using London Northwestern Railway’s services to Birmingham were invited on to platforms to wait for services, in an attempt to further alleviate overcrowding concerns.

The move comes as part of Network Rail’s five-point plan aimed at improving passenger experience at the station, which is the UK’s 10th busiest station with 30m entries and exits each year.

The plan, which was ordered by the transport secretary, Louise Haigh, included moves to try to create more space on the concourse and alleviate pinch points, as well as to improve station operations during disruption to benefit passengers.

It also ordered the station to turn off its large advertising screen, which had previously been the departures board, after widespread criticism.

In September last year, the Office of Rail and Road (ORR) issued an improvement notice to Network Rail in relation to the station. It said crowding had reached unacceptable levels and accused the owner of lacking sufficient measures to control it.

It also found reports of minor injuries as a result of the crowding, which it said had the “potential for more serious consequences in the future”.

In December, the ORR said Network Rail had complied with the notice and implemented measures to “manage passenger traffic flows and overcrowding” but London TravelWatch said last month that little had changed.

The Avanti West Coast interim customer experience director, Cheryl Fox, said: “We know the travelling experience for our customers at Euston has fallen below the standards they should rightly expect.

“We will continue to work alongside Network Rail as well as our partners on this trial and other measures, with the aim of making journeys at the station more comfortable for those travelling on the west coast main line.”

Just selecting a particular quote:

The scheme comes after London Travelwatch raised safety concerns over Euston earlier this month, warning that passengers were being put at danger by high levels of overcrowding.

One doesn't like to speculate, however I can imagine Gareth Dennis' lawyers having a field day over this debacle!

 

[DanBlanchflowe]

A little more info in today’s Times page 17, (behind a pay wall, I read a paper copy),

“At a railway industry meeting yesterday, Network Rail said partners had discussed the potential for the huge advertising display to be used for passenger information. Other suggestions included making all the information desks more visible in one place and further expansion of concourse waiting space.”

 

[ScottGallagher]

I'll be travelling on Thursday to Lancaster so I look forward to seeing this, will this render the advantage of RTT a bit pointless now?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'll be travelling on Thursday to Lancaster so I look forward to seeing this, will this render the advantage of RTT a bit pointless now?

No, because in my observation they are talking about it but not actually doing it.

 

[modernrail]

Which can be quite a few when dispatch is started 1 minute prior to departure

Exactly. There is a lot wrong with Euston but this particular move seemed like the ultimate in passenger gaslighting from a highly incompetent station management team.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Oct 2024 ==

Euston update

https://twitter.com/PaulCliftonBBC/status/1850949207714087411

This is pretty damming. This is about as rocket science as taking a toilet roll tube and painting it to look like a rocket.

The remaining and rather important question is what will happen to the 45% of trains that are not boarded at least 20 minutes before. If the answer is that they are not timetabled to be there to board then what is the minimum boarding time for those services? Anything less than 15 minutes really starts to be silly for an 11 coach train at a terminus with a mix of able bodied, less able, those with lots of luggage, bikes etc. 10 minutes is absolutely not enough and should result in late departure as standard (and the resulting penalties that should flow from that to Avanti and NR for not being able to organise a drinking festival in a drinks manufacturing facility).

I hope the management of Euston station have more than a little shame that the SoS for transport of a G8 country had to intervene to cause a meeting to happen to come up with such revolutionary concepts as passengers walking onto an empty commuter platform to await their train. I doubt they do though which should mean their fitness for purpose in their role is questioned.

 

[DelW]

That press release is utterly bizarre. It reads as though Euston management is trialling some innovative new method of working, rather than reverting to the normal one used by, er, almost every other station in the country.

Gary Walsh, director for Network Rail’s West Coast South route, said: “Getting passengers to their services in good time is at the heart of our improvements at Euston, and today’s changes will tackle that issue head-on.

That seems blindingly obvious, so why has Euston management done the exact opposite for so long, and insisted that that was a necessity?

 

[Nottingham59]

That seems blindingly obvious, so why has Euston management done the exact opposite for so long, and insisted that that was a necessity?

It's the railway.

 

[Dr Hoo]

For a long time on this thread there seemed to an implication or assumption that it was Avanti staff that ‘controlled’ when (all) departures were actually displayed as boarding, platform open and announcements made.
Has this role explicitly been taken on by Network Rail now? (And if ticket checking staff are not in position then passengers can just stream on to the platform anyway?)

 

[SCDR_WMR]

For a long time on this thread there seemed to an implication or assumption that it was Avanti staff that ‘controlled’ when (all) departures were actually displayed as boarding, platform open and announcements made.
Has this role explicitly been taken on by Network Rail now? (And if ticket checking staff are not in position then passengers can just stream on to the platform anyway?)

Certainly implied on here though I've never witnessed anything to suggest that has been the case since I started working through Euston.

LNWR platform staff certainly contact station control room which, given that it's a NR operated station, I cannot possibly see would involve Avanti.

Avanti will no doubt be in a similar position and so currently could be holding platforms closed for longer than necessary to make sure ticket checkers are in place etc.

I would hazard a guess that NR control management have simply told TOC management to release platforms much sooner (which explains why some don't as it still requires a call to be made to control)

 

[Harpo]

It’s a massive capitulation, wiping away deeply ingrained operational and commercial arrogance, and reinstating common sense, decency and customer service

And all dressed up as a brilliantly innovative management initiative!


PS Can we have sensible covered tube access back as well please?

 

[janb]

No, because in my observation they are talking about it but not actually doing it.

It depends, couple of weeks ago I caught the train back up to Lancaster and it's one that granted has a 30 minute turnaround but they called it 15 minutes before departure and it was more civilised than previously.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It’s a massive capitulation, wiping away deeply ingrained operational and commercial arrogance, and reinstating common sense, decency and customer service

Don't speak too soon, it didn't look any different to me yesterday.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Oct 2024 ==

LNWR platform staff certainly contact station control room which, given that it's a NR operated station, I cannot possibly see would involve Avanti.

Is there a reason those staff must be present prior to calling a WMT train (and if so why is nothing physically preventing people going down when the train hasn't been called? If there's an actual risk it's not sufficient mitigation just to put something on a screen; if there isn't an actual risk then it seems a poor policy), and if so could it be mitigated some other way e.g. by improving CCTV or just having a member of staff permanently based at P4-7 and P12-15 to tick the requisite box?

Avanti will no doubt be in a similar position and so currently could be holding platforms closed for longer than necessary to make sure ticket checkers are in place etc.

I suspect Avanti revenue does have to do with it as it wasn't as bad before they seemed to want to check every train. There are other ways they could do this, e.g. move it onto the train, though long term a central gateline as found on pretty much every other large station should really be the solution.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

PS Can we have sensible covered tube access back as well please?

I doubt it; they seem to have placed a retail outlet on the other side of the wall now where the exit used to be...

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Is there a reason those staff must be present prior to calling a WMT train (and if so why is nothing physically preventing people going down when the train hasn't been called? If there's an actual risk it's not sufficient mitigation just to put something on a screen; if there isn't an actual risk then it seems a poor policy), and if so could it be mitigated some other way e.g. by improving CCTV or just having a member of staff permanently based at P4-7 and P12-15 to tick the requisite box?



I suspect Avanti revenue does have to do with it as it wasn't as bad before they seemed to want to check every train. There are other ways they could do this, e.g. move it onto the train, though long term a central gateline as found on pretty much every other large station should really be the solution.

No idea why it is currently done in that way, I would 100% suggest keeping LNWR to certain platform islands and then have staffing assigned to each to prevent those late platform calls.

I can understand allowing a train to arrive and tip out it's passengers prior to calling the outbound service just to prevent the crossing of flows, but as there are currently situations where that happens due to a subsequent arrival on an adjacent platform anyway then it doesn't resolve that issue.

If Avanti simply have to do such checks, then as you've mentioned previously, have the train doors locked but check passengers onto the platform to wait and not on the ramps as there is far more space and passengers can get themselves to the right door ahead of boarding.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can understand allowing a train to arrive and tip out it's passengers prior to calling the outbound service just to prevent the crossing of flows, but as there are currently situations where that happens due to a subsequent arrival on an adjacent platform anyway then it doesn't resolve that issue.

I'd say it actively makes it worse - dribs and drabs against an alighting flow aren't really an issue, whereas (as I saw yesterday) a large flow at speed down the ramp absolutely is.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Oct 2024 ==

If Avanti simply have to do such checks, then as you've mentioned previously, have the train doors locked but check passengers onto the platform to wait and not on the ramps as there is far more space and passengers can get themselves to the right door ahead of boarding.

I suspect part of the issue is that Avanti don't have enough RPIs to check all boarding services unless they only have boarding open for a fairly short period. It's one of the reasons why boarding checks of specific services aren't a thing any more at the vast majority of stations, rather a single gateline checks everyone.

Might have been less of an issue if the 4-7 and 12-15 gatelines had been done as was planned (might as well just keep 16 open and maybe only use it for WMT) - wonder what happened to those?

 

[Dr Hoo]

I doubt it; they seem to have placed a retail outlet on the other side of the wall now where the exit used to be...

I thought that the relevant area, under the middle of the mezzanine, was used for seating now. I haven’t used Euston for a couple of weeks; has it changed again?

 

[yorksrob]

I wanted to sit in the smoking carriage anyway ...of the old Virgin trains stock pre Pendolino.....

Only place you could get a seat a lot of the time, as I recall.

 

[800001]

Move the staff checking tickets at the gates (Avanti), and get them on trains as revenue protection officers like LNER do.

Yes may mean employing more staff across the route, but this will ensure vast majority of tickets on board trains get checked.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Move the staff checking tickets at the gates (Avanti), and get them on trains as revenue protection officers like LNER do.

Kings Cross has a gateline, to be fair. Euston could really, really do with one along the bottom of the old departure board. It'd slow the scrum a bit, too.

 

[800001]

Kings Cross has a gateline, to be fair. Euston could really, really do with one along the bottom of the old departure board. It'd slow the scrum a bit, too.

I agree. There is so much they can easily do to improve, and bring in line with what other London stations achieve.