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Euston Downside Carriage Maintenance Depot

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Pumbaa

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As much as I disprove of the hobby, interesting pictures. Shame they're not still in use really, but it doesn't make sense having the roads face Down. Camden Sidings are better sited in that respect; less faffing about to get in and out of the station.
 

33056

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Has anyone travelled on the DN Dep Line & Carriage Line Tunnel out of Euston..? :D
If that is what we always called the "Rat Hole" then yes. Although I have been through a couple of times on ECS moves, I also have a dim recollection of going through on a class 310 in passenger service though might be mistaken as I am pretty sure this was not authorised.
 

Pumbaa

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If that is what we always called the "Rat Hole" then yes. Although I have been through a couple of times on ECS moves, I also have a dim recollection of going through on a class 310 in passenger service though might be mistaken as I am pretty sure this was not authorised.

Is that the one that crosses under the whole lot from 16 side to 1 side?
 

TomJ93

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Why disapprove? If done properly they shouldn't have caused any damage/harm.

I'd happily do something like that.
 

33056

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Is that the one that crosses under the whole lot from 16 side to 1 side?
Yes, IIRC it's correct designation was the Up Empty Carriage Line and it came off just south of Primose Hill Tunnel and dropped steeply into a narrow steel segment lined tunnel, which emerged on the opposite side of the main running lines somewhere in the vicinity of the Downside Shed.

Though I don't think it was banned for passenger use completely, ISTR non-corridor stock was not allowed with passengers on as the clearance was so tight it was impossible to use any outward opening doors if evacuation was needed in an emergency. Thinking back now, perhaps I went through it on a 317 - it would have been the late 1980s and I did not keep many records in those days.
 

chris89

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Intresting photographs i have to admit.

Forgot i had an account on their, but haven't visited the site for ages now, orignally linked to it by a friend of mine.

Chris
 

Pumbaa

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Yes, IIRC it's correct designation was the Up Empty Carriage Line and it came off just south of Primose Hill Tunnel and dropped steeply into a narrow steel segment lined tunnel, which emerged on the opposite side of the main running lines somewhere in the vicinity of the Downside Shed.
.

Don't think I've been through that one. Any regular moves to use that line in day to day service?
 

87015

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Don't think I've been through that one. Any regular moves to use that line in day to day service?

Long closed, OOU since the early 90s perhaps although it lasted until the 2001 remodelling before being lifted? Think the trackbed on the downside has a S&T type cabinet in it now.
 

Pumbaa

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Long closed, OOU since the early 90s perhaps although it lasted until the 2001 remodelling before being lifted? Think the trackbed on the downside has a S&T type cabinet in it now.

Fair enough. I think the Cabinet is readily sighted from the other lines, I have a feeling it should be easily distinguishable when I'm next down there.
 

NightatLaira

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I wonder if Downside carriage shed could be utilised in HS2? And as for the rathole / DN Deep Line, is it still in situ? Or has it been filled in?
 

yummy125

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Yes, IIRC it's correct designation was the Up Empty Carriage Line and it came off just south of Primose Hill Tunnel and dropped steeply into a narrow steel segment lined tunnel, which emerged on the opposite side of the main running lines somewhere in the vicinity of the Downside Shed.

If someone has got a few pic's of what this line / tunnel looks like it would be great, I will email a few Railtour companies to see if they can use this line (if still there) when exiting Euston.
 

Trog

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The south end of the Rat hole is in a small side cutting, running north from the north portal of the lower (Port Arthur) Park Street tunnel half way up Camden bank. The toes for the connection were just inside the northern end of the Port Arthur tunnel. The tunnel then runs under the mainline, canal and winding vaults at the top of Camden bank. Before turning back northwards under the old Primrose Hill Stn and the Enginemens lodging house. Emerging on the far Up side half way between Primrose Hill Stn and tunnels. The tunnel is still there but is flooded, as 25Kv cables run through the tunnel paddling is probably not a good idea.
 

dggar

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The following is quoted from a book
"The Great British Railway Station, EUSTON"
published by Irwell Pres in 1994. isbn 1-871608-28-7. Page 40.

'The Up Empty Carriage Line served for empties(meaning ECS movements) from Willesden to Euston - the connection was from the Up Slow Main at Camden No 2 Box. It burrowed underneath the mainlines opposite Camden shed and emerged on the Down side between Camden No 1 and Euston No 4 boxes; thence it converged with the Up Engine line No 1 into the station. Empty coaches from Willesden could also travel over the Up Slow Main to Euston No 4 crossing at that point to Engine Line No 1. (crossing all of the Up and Down passenger lines) This operation preventented trains leaving Euston by the Mainlines.
This borrowing line was the "rat 'ole" of evil repute and a crew would go to great lengths to ensure a clear trip through - stalling could be positively dangerous in its fume-laden close confines.
It was the scene of at least one "rescue" in late BR days, when a train of empty stock from Willesden with a Fowler 2-6-2T stalled in "the 'ole". Fortunately one of the "twins", 10000 or 10001 (LMS diesels) was available and a loco inspector (who was later commended) took the diesel in, using the nose doors to gain access and couple up, drawing the train out into the living world.'




In the days of steam working the platforms on the west side were used for Long distance main line departures with staion piolts bringing the ECS from either the down carriage shed or from Willesden. The Engine lines were used to transfer locomotives between Euston and Camden shed.
 

NightatLaira

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The following is quoted from a book
"The Great British Railway Station, EUSTON"
published by Irwell Pres in 1994. isbn 1-871608-28-7. Page 40.

'The Up Empty Carriage Line served for empties(meaning ECS movements) from Willesden to Euston - the connection was from the Up Slow Main at Camden No 2 Box. It burrowed underneath the mainlines opposite Camden shed and emerged on the Down side between Camden No 1 and Euston No 4 boxes; thence it converged with the Up Engine line No 1 into the station. Empty coaches from Willesden could also travel over the Up Slow Main to Euston No 4 crossing at that point to Engine Line No 1. (crossing all of the Up and Down passenger lines) This operation preventented trains leaving Euston by the Mainlines.
This borrowing line was the "rat 'ole" of evil repute and a crew would go to great lengths to ensure a clear trip through - stalling could be positively dangerous in its fume-laden close confines.
It was the scene of at least one "rescue" in late BR days, when a train of empty stock from Willesden with a Fowler 2-6-2T stalled in "the 'ole". Fortunately one of the "twins", 10000 or 10001 (LMS diesels) was available and a loco inspector (who was later commended) took the diesel in, using the nose doors to gain access and couple up, drawing the train out into the living world.'




In the days of steam working the platforms on the west side were used for Long distance main line departures with staion piolts bringing the ECS from either the down carriage shed or from Willesden. The Engine lines were used to transfer locomotives between Euston and Camden shed.

This is the kind of stuff I find fascinating! I hope disused railway stations .org do an article about this - it's spellbinding!

So am I right in thinking that this would still have been used up till the late 90s Euston Throat modernisation? I presume the electrification was for the class 81/82/85 electric station pilots?
 

dggar

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This is the kind of stuff I find fascinating! I hope disused railway stations .org do an article about this - it's spellbinding!

So am I right in thinking that this would still have been used up till the late 90s Euston Throat modernisation? I presume the electrification was for the class 81/82/85 electric station pilots?

I'm attaching a track diagram taken from a book by O S Nock titled "Britain's New Railway." It was published in 1966. It is about the electrification of the WCML from Liverpool & Manchester to Euston. The titles on the diagram stating "Old" and "New" refer to pre 1966 and post 1966.
I'm also including the text of a message I sent, in 2006, to the creator of the "Thames Mersey Route" for the Microsoft Train Simulator package .

Quote""I was born in 1950 in Harrow and every year for the 1st. 11 years of my life my family would spend 2 weeks summer holidays with my maternal grandparents in Rhyl. We would travel into Euston on the Watford dc electrics from Harrow and Wealdstone station to catch the Welshman train, which departed around about 11:00am. I was always fascinated by the way the tracks seemed to weave under and over each other between Primrose Hill tunnel eastern portal and Euston.

Euston and the lines up Camden Bank lie roughly North-South. Primrose Hill Tunnel lies on a roughly East –West axis.

In the steam age long distance arrivals would run into Platforms 1,2 or 3.There was a taxi rank running almost the full length of the space between 2 and 3.

Platforms 4,5 and 7 were electrified for the Watford dc electrics. They also received and dispatched outer suburban steam trains.
Platform 6 could accommodate long distance arrivals but because of its remoteness from the taxis was used as a last resort.

Platforms 8,9,10 and 11 were mainly for parcels traffic.

Platforms 12,13,14 and 15 were used for long distance departures.

In October1952 a new signal box replaced boxes Euston 1,2 and 3. Euston 4 was renamed Carriage Sidings box. The new box was sited to the East of the lines and had a sign on it which read "EUSTON 300 yards" Between the ends of the platforms and the new signal box the lines from the platforms merged into 6 lines.

From West to East these were
1. Up Engine line 1
2. Down Fast
3. Down Slow
4. Up Slow
5. Up Fast
6. Down Empty Carriage line.

Just north of the new signal box the Down Empty Carriage line branches to the East to form the line to the Up Carriage shed and to the West to form the Up Engine line 2.

Up Engine line 2 and Down Empty Carriage Line then fly under the main running lines and emerge between Up Engine line 1 and the Down Fast.
Up Engine line 1 converges with the Up Engine line 2 to form the Up Engine line which together with the Down Empty Carriage line form 2 lines for empty stock movements and light engine movements between Euston and Camden MPD (1B). Just beyond the convergence of these lines there is a south-facing branch to the West to allow access to the Backing Out lines and the Down Carriage shed. The Carriage Sidings box was situated here.

The Up carriage shed dealt with outer suburban rolling stock and Watford dc electrics.

The Up and Down Slow lines and the line leading to the Up Carriage shed were electrified to deal with this requirement. Long distance rolling stock was dealt with either in the Down Carriage shed or at Willesden.

The Backing Out lines were 4 lines between Up Engine line 1 and the Down Carriage shed. They were a holding point rolling stock forming long distance departures. Station pilot locos would bring the stock from here to platforms 12 – 15 and the train engine would then back down onto the train from Up Engine line 1.

Just north of the Carriage Sidings box a north-facing branch diverged to the west from the Up Engine line . This was the Up Empty Carriage line. This line then tunnelled under the running lines, and presumably under the Regents Canal, to finally emerge on the North side of the Up line leading to Broad Street and the North London Lines with which it converged.

It was known as the "rat ‘ole" The purpose of this line was to allow empty coaching stock from Willesden, which travelled on the Up Slow line, to cross to the Backing Out lines with out fouling train movements on the main running lines.

From this point to the top of Camden Bank there were 6 lines arranged from West to East as follows:-
1. Up Engine line
2. Down Empty Carriage line.
3. Down Fast
4. Down Slow
5. Up Slow
6. Up Fast

The Up Engine line and Down Empty Carriage line lead into Camden MPD. The other lines curved around Camden MPD to the West. The 2 Slow lines started to drop down to fly under the Up Fast, which crossed over them to run next to the Down Fast before entering the Southern most portal of Primrose Hill Tunnel. At the lowest point just under the Up Fast line the Down Slow branched to become the Down Watford dc electric and Down Slow. There was a similar convergence of the Up Watford dc electric and the Up Slow. The Up and Down Slow the climbed back up to a junction with the Up and Down lines from Broad Street before entering the Northern most portal of Primrose Hill Tunnel.

The Watford dc electric lines formed an underground junction with the dc electric lines from Broad Street. At the Western end of Primrose Hill Tunnel there were 3 portals.

2 books that have detailed track layout diagrams are:- The Great British Railway Station EUSTON isbn 1-871608-28-7. published 1994 by Irwell press and Britain's New Railway by O S Nock. Published 1966 by Ian Allen. Unfortunately both are out of print."" End Quote

The foundations of the "New signal box" are still visible on the East side of the tracks just before the bridge carrying the A400 Hampstead Road.
 

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bengley

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I have too been into the downside shed. It's a fascinating place and you really don't expect something this vast to stay disused for so long in Central London.

Here are my pictures.


This place had a lot of stuff left over unlike most sites in London - they're usually stripped pretty quickly.








Lots of warnings about overhead lines, they're too high up to worry about.






In the few years it's been abandoned, nature has taken over this depot.




Cable reel.



A locomotive parked outside on the main line, it soon after moved off presumably to drag a failed electric train out back to its depot.








The depot has 10 roads, with the three off to the right of this picture being the least overgrown.


















 

sprinterguy

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I wonder if Downside carriage shed could be utilised in HS2?
No, HS2 will see the demolition of Downside Carriage Shed as the alignment runs straight through the middle of the site on its’ final approach to Euston. Interestingly though, if I have fathomed the location correctly from the descriptions given here, the portal for the tunnel taking HS2 out of London will be located in pretty much the same place as the southern portal of the rat hole. :)
 

Tubeman

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Fascinating photos... I only recently clocked that the shed had been abandoned (last summer I think), when I saw that a fence had been erected across the throat.

Does anyone know when it last saw use / was officially decommissioned? date needed for London Railway Atlas... Thanks!
 

bengley

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Fascinating photos... I only recently clocked that the shed had been abandoned (last summer I think), when I saw that a fence had been erected across the throat.

Does anyone know when it last saw use / was officially decommissioned? date needed for London Railway Atlas... Thanks!

I believe it's been disused since 2002.
 

NightatLaira

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Brilliant photos Bengley - really enjoyed them.

Will be interesting to see if the rat hole is recomissioned (and widened) as part of HS2 as a strategic path for taking locos to/from Wembley?
 

sprinterguy

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Brilliant photos Bengley - really enjoyed them.

Will be interesting to see if the rat hole is recomissioned (and widened) as part of HS2 as a strategic path for taking locos to/from Wembley?
It's not part of the HS2 plans. There won't be any locos using Euston, barring the sleepers, in the future. The rat hole will be filled in and bricked up if the HS2 tunnel entrance is indeed in the same location as the southern portal.
 
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