Euston departure board to be moved

[Horizon22]

And it's awful everywhere.

One station that has been ruined by it is Inverness. Before the gateline was installed, a civilised, one-abreast queue formed for each departure, snaking around the concourse. Now it is yet another scrum.

I'd love to see one of the disability or elderly campaigners challenge it on accessibility grounds. The only people who gain from it are fit young people.

I'd like to know what you would change exactly, given that a) people will arrive at the station before their service is ready, b) the need to clean the train, prepare the turnaround, the crew to be ready, reservations to be loaded and c) not taking into account any delays, d) the fact the platform can only be announced in one go (i.e not in stages), e) there is not seat control (i.e "coaches A-C board now, D-F please wait").

People are correct Euston does have more space on platforms, but pyschologically many don't like waiting on concourse, their being told their platform only to then wait around before they can actually board their train. This might be one where regular travellers and less frequent travellers differ (much like this forum's attitude to announcements).

 

[LOL The Irony]

I can't imagine what Manchester Piccadilly would be like if everyone was held outside the gateline until just before departure.

With the full intercity timetable back, hell. The queue would probably be all along the approach.

 

[Horizon22]

None of the other terminals have the same number of Advance heavy services as Euston, the sheer numbers that are going to be hanging around at the station early, lest they miss their booked train and face buying an anytime single, dwarfs that of all the other terminals.

I'm sure many long-distance operators have a similar % although of course geographically, Euston & Kings Cross will have the most. Paddington has a lot of advances.

 

[RailWonderer]

The central departure board opposite the two exits left and right of it is a perfect way of keeping the sheep in the pen, meaning when you need to buy a ticket, or use the shops and go onto the platforms you can move down the sides without bumping into anyone. At Paddington having smaller and seperate departure boards turned the main concourse into a mess and the benches make it worse.

 

[edwin_m]

This looks like a larger version of what they have in the Manchester Piccadilly P13/14 "lounge", which aims to reassure people about where the train is and how long they have, so they will stay there until they have to move down to the platform. In that case it supplements, rather than replacing, the existing indicator and indeed the linked visualisation of Euston appears to show the existing screen still operational (which could of course be a mistake by the press office).

The arrows probably need to change from what is shown - they should point "north east" for a high-numbered platform, "east" for the middle of the station and "south west" for a low numbered on the screen visible, with appropriate adjustments for the ones elsewhere. Even then it may be tricky conveying the message that someone needs to turn around and go away from the screen.

Someone has pointed out that on the illustration, Edinburgh passengers are being directed out of the station. Given Avanti's current situation, walking down the road to Kings Crosswould probably be wise advice...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes - unlike many London terminus stations. Hence the validity of the points made above about the concourse congestions being solvable by letting people onto the platforms earlier.

I'll remind people again that until the mid to late 2000s (about 2006 I think) platform numbers of suburban trains were not suppressed. They were even on a sheet of paper down in the Tube station! (Euston suburban platforming is very consistent). It worked absolutely fine. Increasing numbers of people use Traksy or Realtime Trains to find them anyway, or just know them. Even before those apps I used to work them out using knowledge of the diagrams and the arrivals display.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2022 ==

This looks like a larger version of what they have in the Manchester Piccadilly P13/14 "lounge", which aims to reassure people about where the train is and how long they have, so they will stay there until they have to move down to the platform. In that case it supplements, rather than replacing, the existing indicator and indeed the linked visualisation of Euston appears to show the existing screen still operational (which could of course be a mistake by the press office).

The Network Rail article confirms that it will replace the main board.

I'd be perfectly happy with the existing board being done in the coloured format. It's been done at Victoria and it looks great.

 

[dosxuk]

The other interesting point on the artist's impression is that the arrows for 'go to train' are pointing out of the station for the lowest numbered platforms!

They've only done one sample rendering of the screen output and applied it to multiple artist's impressions. The one from the other direction has the arrows facing the way you would expect.

 

[zwk500]

They've only done one sample rendering of the screen output and applied it to multiple artist's impressions. The one from the other direction has the arrows facing the way you would expect.

I'm being picky, but from that position Platforms 5 and 1 should have an 'Up' Arrow and 12 should have a 'left' arrow. Platform 9 is debateable. Hopefully when they come to install the screens (which look quite close to each other, I wonder if 1 in the middle would be better) the arrows will get sorted to be the right way round.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Zoom in a bit and it looks like Euston has gained some new destinations!

(The "next fastest train to" bit is a list from Victoria)

FWIW with limited panels available that right hand one is a waste of space. Just put a separate clock underneath it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2022 ==

I'm being picky, but from that position Platforms 5 and 1 should have an 'Up' Arrow and 12 should have a 'left' arrow. Platform 9 is debateable. Hopefully when they come to install the screens (which look quite close to each other, I wonder if 1 in the middle would be better) the arrows will get sorted to be the right way round.

Euston's Twitter shows one already installed but not working yet.

 

[zwk500]

One more serious comment I'd have is that the 'Operator' box at the bottom isn't really that prominent. At Victoria and Waterloo it doesn't really matter but at Euston the distinction between Avanti and LNWR is quite important, and I wonder if there's a better way to show it with the colouring of the top box.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2022 ==

FWIW with limited panels available that right hand one is a waste of space. Just put a separate clock underneath it.

It'll be need for adverts and 61016 messages, as well as the special notices.

 

[Trackman]

The Network Rail article confirms that it will replace the main board.

I really do despair, I really do. If it's not broke - don't fix it.

You can see the board from the back of the concourse, everyone is facing it - the new ones look smaller in comparison so we'd have a proper scrum for people who cannot see it properly plus the angle of view may be an issue. sighs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It'll be need for adverts and 61016 messages, as well as the special notices.

Adverts can go elsewhere. 61016 can go on a poster. Special notices should only take a panel if there are any (the station duty manager being called Bob doesn't count).

 

[anamyd]

(It's also meant to cost £1.5m - a good bit of railway inflation there - a 50" LCD TV costs a grand at the top end of the range, and there's 10 of them per side (40 in total) and a chunk of metal to hang them off plus some wiring and a control box, so I struggle to see how it should really cost more than about £100K at most)

They wouldn't be TVs though, would they? They'd be commerical/industrial-grade monitors that would be engineered to last for many years of intense use. Not "TVs" that would go blue after a couple of years because of the yellow coating burning off the backlight LEDs and turning them from white to blue, or have their chip-on-films fail (causing LCD issues) or power supplies fail etc.

 

[LOL The Irony]

They wouldn't be TVs though, would they? They'd be commerical/industrial-grade monitors that would be engineered to last for many years of intense use. Not "TVs" that would go blue after a couple of years because of the yellow coating burning off the backlight LEDs and turning them from white to blue, or have their chip-on-films fail (causing LCD issues) or power supplies fail etc.

So a television?

 

[dosxuk]

They wouldn't be TVs though, would they? They'd be commerical/industrial-grade monitors that would be engineered to last for many years of intense use. Not "TVs" that would go blue after a couple of years because of the yellow coating burning off the backlight LEDs and turning them from white to blue, or have their chip-on-films fail (causing LCD issues) or power supplies fail etc.

So a television?

Ignoring that a commercial grade, 24/7 rated, 50" monitor, with a 5 year life, will be significantly more expensive than a grand, these types of display are LED wall, not televisions or monitors.

They wouldn't ever be described as televisions, as that implies it carries a television receiver - which if it does is taxed differently to a monitor (which doesn't contain a receiver).

 

[Ediswan]

They wouldn't ever be described as televisions, as that implies it carries a television receiver - which if it does is taxed differently to a monitor (which doesn't contain a receiver).

Source please.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ignoring that a commercial grade, 24/7 rated, 50" monitor, with a 5 year life, will be significantly more expensive than a grand, these types of display are LED wall, not televisions or monitors.

I did a quick Google and we were looking at about a grand for a commercial spec 50" LCD monitor.

Yes, it is an LED wall, but perhaps that's a waste of money? TOCs seem to be doing OK with LCD and OLED displays elsewhere.

Or they could have done nothing. The railway is being asked to save money, and they spent £1.5m on something unnecessary? Utterly profligate.

They wouldn't ever be described as televisions, as that implies it carries a television receiver - which if it does is taxed differently to a monitor (which doesn't contain a receiver).

It was a figure of speech.

 

[kkong]

Source please.

Monitors and projectors, not incorporating television reception apparatus; reception apparatus for television, whether or not incorporating radio-broadcast receivers or sound or video recording or reproducing apparatus - UK Integrated Online Tariff -

Monitors and projectors, not incorporating television reception apparatus; reception apparatus for television, whether or not incorporating radio-broadcast receivers or sound or video recording or reproducing apparatus

www.trade-tariff.service.gov.uk

0% 3rd country import duty for LCD displays without a tuner (8528 5291 00).
14% 3rd country import duty for LCD displays with a tuner (8528 7240 00).

 

[zwk500]

Or they could have done nothing. The railway is being asked to save money, and they spent £1.5m on something unnecessary? Utterly profligate.

Or if it enables more ad space, probably quite profitable.

 

[Ediswan]

Monitors and projectors, not incorporating television reception apparatus; reception apparatus for television, whether or not incorporating radio-broadcast receivers or sound or video recording or reproducing apparatus - UK Integrated Online Tariff -

Monitors and projectors, not incorporating television reception apparatus; reception apparatus for television, whether or not incorporating radio-broadcast receivers or sound or video recording or reproducing apparatus

www.trade-tariff.service.gov.uk

0% 3rd country import duty for LCD displays without a tuner (8528 5291 00).
14% 3rd country import duty for LCD displays with a tuner (8528 7240 00).

Fair enough. Import duties are not something the end user needs to deal with though, all rolled up into the selling price. Unless they are also the importer of course.

 

[Mojo]

Why even do Intercity operators need to do this, when regional and London & South East Tocs (except for Chiltern at Marylebone) are usually happy to service the trains with customers on board?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why even do Intercity operators need to do this, when regional and London & South East Tocs (except for Chiltern at Marylebone) are usually happy to service the trains with customers on board?

This is a good point. Reservations could be downloaded after the last stop rather than waiting to Euston.

 

[zwk500]

This is a good point. Reservations could be downloaded after the last stop rather than waiting to Euston.

I suspect they can't, if it's driven off the headcode.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suspect they can't, if it's driven off the headcode.

Would just be a software mod.

 

[Lifelong]

I noticed our OP mentioned the Waterloo failure. Surely we can learn from that? I remember it well, though it felt like a bad dream until I saw this thread.

 

[Horizon22]

Why even do Intercity operators need to do this, when regional and London & South East Tocs (except for Chiltern at Marylebone) are usually happy to service the trains with customers on board?

Well most metro trains look filthy or have a quick litter pick. Often there’s a food/drink restock too & normally more staff than just a driver.

 

[Hadders]

One of them is in place, albeit not working yet.

 

[zwk500]

One thing that's going to be interesting to see is how quickly you can read the next departure if you're hurrying. You used to be able to read the first board almost as soon as you turn into the station if you come in the South-west entrance. This was rather useful if trying to get back to MKC, as you could easily see either 'Northampton' in the destination or Milton keynes on the first call line. The new boards look like you'll need to get much further in. I wouldn't be surprised if this leads to lots more rushing about.

 

[JaJaWa]

Personally if I was doing anything with the Departure boards, I'd take the Overgrounds out of the main display, and just have a single board listing their departures. The DC lines are the same pattern all the time, so it only needs Number and platform. This would allow more LNWR and Avantis to be shown in advance.

This has been implemented

 

[Richardr]

What about seeing them from the balcony upstairs. At the moment it is straight forward to see the boards from there - presumably not so in the future?