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Eurostar..What happened?

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ole man

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What happened to the long gone eurostar services known as Regional Eurostar.
Stockport platform 0 was built for that reason, the building opposite Longsight TMD was also built for the same reason, also i imagine other wasted infrastructure (name then if you want ).
What actually happens in that building now?
I know the new platform 0 , with new track,signalling and ole is used a old and should be condemmed diesel's.
What was the reason to cancel these services?:oops:
 
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142094

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I wonder if there was a direct train from places such as Edinburgh, Newcastle, York etc to St. Pancras then straight through the tunnel, if this would be an attractive idea for those who currently fly to the Continent?

Not enitrely sure how long it would take to do NCL - KGX, change to St. P and over to Paris. I would hazard a guess that NCL - Paris via St. Pancras would cut between 30-45 minutes off a journey time.
 

jopsuk

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A combination of the budget airline revolution and UK border security making things awkward.
 

jon0844

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But short haul cheap flights are become less cheap, and in some cases, congestion and increased security checks is making them slower.

Rail is there to pick up the pieces and welcome all of these people back with open arms (and, hopefully, empty seats)!
 
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Av journey time from Newc to KX is about three hours. Two from York.

The pain will be the transfer through customs, which couldn't be done on the train if the train was terminating in London. Best to keep things separate. Especially for those trains heading into Euston, St P, or KX.

How much capacity is there for domestic arrivals at St Pancras anyway?

Perhaps routing a Cardiff/Penzanze train round the NLL would make sense instead of it going into Paddington
 

es373

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The NoL sets are currently in France doing rather well.
Watch this space :P
 

JoeGJ1984

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I think that given the cheap flights are becoming less cheap and all the hassle/stress associated with flying, there would be a market for services such as Birmingham or Manchester direct to Paris, which hopefully might become attractive to families, etc.

I wonder if the shorter check-in times for a train from, say Birmingham to Paris may lessen the time cost over a flight, and so make it an attractive option.
 

Waverley21

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I wonder if there was a direct train from places such as Edinburgh, Newcastle, York etc to St. Pancras then straight through the tunnel, if this would be an attractive idea for those who currently fly to the Continent?

Not enitrely sure how long it would take to do NCL - KGX, change to St. P and over to Paris. I would hazard a guess that NCL - Paris via St. Pancras would cut between 30-45 minutes off a journey time.

I once did Edinburgh to Paris, but frankly the Eurostar carriages killed any enjoyment after King's Cross, and door to door it's quicker flying from Edinburgh to Paris. By air I can almost do central Edinburgh-central Paris in the time it takes on EastCoast to King's Cross.
 

Bridge189

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The NoL sets are currently in France doing rather well.
Watch this space :P

SNCF lease ends in a couple of months and apparently is not being renewed. I always wondered why Eurostar sold three full length sets to SNCF permanently. Seemed to be shooting any growth possibilities in the foot.
 

Yew

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Don't we have a problem with ec running hst's under wires? Maybe the nol sets could help. By running nol
 

paul1609

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Av journey time from Newc to KX is about three hours. Two from York.

The pain will be the transfer through customs, which couldn't be done on the train if the train was terminating in London. Best to keep things separate. Especially for those trains heading into Euston, St P, or KX.

How much capacity is there for domestic arrivals at St Pancras anyway?

Perhaps routing a Cardiff/Penzanze train round the NLL would make sense instead of it going into Paddington





Although theres a very rusty connection from HS1 to the North London Line theres no capacity or infrastructure to run through passenger services in the London Area and its very unlikely that there ever will be.
 

ole man

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What other infrastructure was built for these services?
If HS2 gets built will they have services into mainland europe from say manchester,leeds? or will it just be HS2 to OOC then change onto HS1?
 

ChrisCooper

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I think you mean Passport Control, which only occurs outbound, customs is only inbound and is hardly ever done at all

Passport control occurs both ways. Going out it's the French boarder authorities who handle it, coming back it's the UK. If passports were not checked coming back to the UK then we'd have no problems with illegals in the back of lorries etc, they'd just book on Eurostar.

There is also the security. It's not as stringent as airports, but still an issue. Actually it was the biggest problem for Regional Eurostar, as it required fixed infrastructure at each station where people could board, including provision to make sure those not checked could not board, wheras passport control is quite simple and can be done anywhere (including onboard).
 

Roylang

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I think you mean Passport Control, which only occurs outbound, customs is only inbound and is hardly ever done at all

How do you mean customs is hardly ever done? As with airports, the authorities will monitor and will have already identify who they wish to "talk to" before you get to the customs area.

Further, as a person entering the UK, you are obliged to declare to customs certain things. This applies all the time so the customs function is there all the time and is working for every train.

Roy
 

es373

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Which is why I said watch this space. Probably sold due to space issues? Haven't got the foggiest and I haven't asked yet.
NXEA orient way depot is eurostar's property too. Be interesting what's going to happen if e* choose to take back the property - can't wait to get a look in on these new e320 valero D trains though, have seen them about and they are a massive improvement so it seems.
I guess it's just a waste to have 186mph trains that can only run at 125mph that could be a reason why. But there will be some massive changes to Eurostar services in the next couple of years owing to DB wanting to start running through the eurotunnel too.
Exciting times!
 

jon0844

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How do you mean customs is hardly ever done? As with airports, the authorities will monitor and will have already identify who they wish to "talk to" before you get to the customs area.

Further, as a person entering the UK, you are obliged to declare to customs certain things. This applies all the time so the customs function is there all the time and is working for every train.

Roy

I am not sure you can always find someone to declare items to, especially at night - even at airports. You may find it totally deserted, and while there is a phone, I would imagine many people just walk on through. I can't even picture there being a red channel at St Pancras.

I saw on a TV show (Sky One) where someone was stopped at Gatwick (I think) after having gone through the red channel and walked through, only to be shown the phone they should have used, but it wasn't very clearly marked.

I suppose you could consider this as similar to walking out of a station without trying to buy a ticket, but I am not sure it's that similar as I'd probably assume that if there was nobody there then they're not interested in collecting duty, so why should I have to hunt around for a member of staff?

I've only gone through the red channel once to declare alcohol I'd brought from outside the EU and was quite impressed with the ability to haggle on the duty I needed to pay. This was a few years back, and for all I know the money went in his back pocket (I didn't get a receipt) but I was happy and he was happy! Ten quid on four 1-litre bottles of Bacardi rum!
 

Gareth

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As has been said - short-haul flights. And from a Liverpool perspective; thank goodness for that. I quite simply don't trust the UK regime to figure Liverpool into any regional Eurostar. HS2 confirms those fears, quite frankly.
 

fgwrich

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Passport control occurs both ways. Going out it's the French boarder authorities who handle it, coming back it's the UK. If passports were not checked coming back to the UK then we'd have no problems with illegals in the back of lorries etc, they'd just book on Eurostar.

There is also the security. It's not as stringent as airports, but still an issue. Actually it was the biggest problem for Regional Eurostar, as it required fixed infrastructure at each station where people could board, including provision to make sure those not checked could not board, wheras passport control is quite simple and can be done anywhere (including onboard).

Exactly, Hence one of the reasons as to why Ashford not so International has the island platforms to handle Security and Passport control...
 

ainsworth74

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As has been said - short-haul flights. And from a Liverpool perspective; thank goodness for that. I quite simply don't trust the UK regime to figure Liverpool into any regional Eurostar. HS2 confirms those fears, quite frankly.

So because Liverpool might have been missed out by Eurostar regional services it's a good thing that no one has them? Similarly as you've been told before it makes no sense for HS2 to run to Liverpool as where can it go from there? Besides there just isn't the business case for it to run to Liverpool directly.
 

driver9000

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Liverpool wasn't on the Regional Eurostar map. The cities served by the 'day service' were Edinburgh, Manchester, York and Newcastle.

Manchester-Continent via WCML
Edinburgh-Continent via ECML

Manchester International is now used as a wheel lathe. I'm not sure if they do any other work there.
 
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WestCoast

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Outbound passport controls from the UK at St. Pancras are just the French authorities, the UK does not have outbound controls with the Border Agency. I believe temporary outbound controls can be enforced at any time, when they are deemed necessary.

Inbound controls at Paris Gare du Nord and Brussels Midi/Zuid have the French or Belgian outbound controls, then followed by UK Border Agency controls. So, your passport/ID card is inspected twice.

Of course, those countries in the Schengen Agreement have no border controls, however, in the days before Schengen, border controls on international trains in Europe took place on-train, with teams of officers checking passports/ID cards.
 

jon0844

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Given the congestions on the network, I wonder if there might be scope to run some early/late services from some of these places to get people to Paris or Brussels for 8am, and leaving at, say 6 or 7pm to get people back. In both cases, you'd be travelling very early and arrive back very late - but you'd be able to do get there early for a meeting, and back home after an afternoon meeting. If you stayed overnight, you'd be able to get another full day(s).

The advantage would be a nice simple journey; once you're on the train, you know you're getting there and would have plenty of time to work, or sit back and relax. Given how early people may have to get up to fly, there's no real disadvantage compared to flying and I'd take the train over flying even if it took a bit longer.

If you had to go later in the day, or come back earlier, you'd be in a better position to change trains during the day (higher frequency). There's something about travel really early and late that makes you fearful of changes and delays - which isn't an issue if you know you're definitely getting home once you've got on the train (even if it ended up stuck somewhere on the way).

This would also mean customs and security would only need to operate for a short time at the other stations - like some foreign airports where the staff come down for as little as one flight departure before going back!

I bet there would be enough demand to fill a single train in each direction to each destination - perhaps in the future this might split on the French side having been made up of two shorter sets.

Some may see it as a token gesture, but you'd continue to have the through-ticketing options for other times.. and it wouldn't be much different to the 'token' trains to Disneyland Paris that are certainly never empty.

Outbound passport controls from the UK at St. Pancras are just the French authorities, the UK does not have outbound controls with the Border Agency. I believe temporary outbound controls can be enforced at any time, when they are deemed necessary.

The only time I've had my passport checked by the UK authorities at St Pancras was the testing day before commercial services began! But, the desks are there for the inevitable 'bolt the stable door after the horse has bolted' reaction to a big incident, where you begin to realise that checking people leaving might be a good idea.

I have noticed a fair few exit checks at Heathrow now, which I actually like even though it means a slight delay. Actually, if I'm with the wife, any delay getting to 'duty free' is a real benefit. :)
 

ivanhoe

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Low cost flights, although more expensive now, are still good value from the North West and Midlands airports. They are nowhere near the BA fares that existed in the 1990's. Thus there will not be any regional Eurostars for a long time yet.
The main problem anyway is the UK attitude to passport control. Major culture changes are required and I cannot see this hapenning for a long time yet.

Re the Liverpool poster, the train would have stopped at Crewe I believe. Lime Street simply could not handle such a train.
 

WestCoast

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Low cost flights, although more expensive now, are still good value from the North West and Midlands airports. They are nowhere near the BA fares that existed in the 1990's. Thus there will not be any regional Eurostars for a long time yet. .

I'd have to agree on that one, people who are based in the South East sometimes fail to appreciate this. You've got to get to London first. If I lived near a Eurostar terminal, I'd take the train to Cologne via Brussels. However, I don't as so you have to factor in the 3+ hours to get to St. Pancras. Plus, airports like Liverpool are nowhere near as slow as Heathrow.

All this talk of air fares rising is true (tax plays a role here), however compared to the fares that existed in the days before EU air deregulation, they are rather cheaper, especially from Northern airports.
 

ukrob

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What happened to the long gone eurostar services known as Regional Eurostar.
Stockport platform 0 was built for that reason, the building opposite Longsight TMD was also built for the same reason, also i imagine other wasted infrastructure (name then if you want ).
What actually happens in that building now?
I know the new platform 0 , with new track,signalling and ole is used a old and should be condemmed diesel's.
What was the reason to cancel these services?:oops:

What? It wasn't even built until 2003!
 

jon0844

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Heathrow (T5 at least) is pretty quick, and given many people may go business they've got fasttrack too. Watching Inside Gatwick on Sky shows that they seem to have hugely improved things there; so I'm looking forward to trying it out in November!

But, much as I love flying, I really prefer to do it for long trips or when there's no alternative. I don't like getting up at stupid o'clock, having to clear security and check in early (again, business passengers can turn up a lot later). When I get on the plane, especially for short haul, I feel like I can't really do anything constructive - besides maybe watching a film, and that might be tight given the need to keep stuff switched off/flight mode during take off and landing.

Get me on a train, with the laptop taken out and plugged in, with my Wi-Fi set up and I'm fine. Delayed train? Who cares?

To be honest, that's another reason I like trains; being able to use my phone/laptop - not for calls, but going online. I am sure that now most people fiddle with apps, email, IM, Facebook, LinkedIn etc - both for work and pleasure - the train has other benefits over flying. Using your phone or Internet in the air is still VERY expensive, and using a laptop is hard unless you've got a decent seat.

But, when I go to Las Vegas in November, the train isn't a viable option. :)
 
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ChiefPlanner

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These regional services were planned under (I thnk) section 20 of the CTRL bill - when regions were asked for through services , as they were "free" they all said "yes please" of course.

Come the changes to the policy - there domestic services from Wales (158 from Carmarthen and Cardiff iand Manchester via Hereford into Waterloo to connect with EPS , and for a short time some HST services into Wloo from the ECML - they carried the square root of nothing bar the Wales and West services made some contribution with cheap tickets into London.

There were even greater plans with a Swansea / Penzance sleeper via Kensington with dual class 37's splitting and attaching on route.

In retrospect - a good idea with no commercial basis - the EPS sleeper stock - aka the Nighmare stock ended up with VIA in Canada.

Cheap air competition killed it all off - bar the lucrative (actually EPS losses money) London to the Continent.....
 
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