Eurostar Class 373 Queries

[es373]

I for one wont be touching DB. Eurostars are head and shoulders over the ICEs.

Do Eurostar have any spare regional Eurostars sitting around? Could they be used to help start a new route? Say Amsterdam or Germany?

James,

The regional (North of Londons) are currently in France running shuttle services.
Should be interesting to see what happens to them when thhe contract ends.

 

[junglejames]

James,

The regional (North of Londons) are currently in France running shuttle services.
Should be interesting to see what happens to them when thhe contract ends.

Something made me think some werent being used and were in store. Must have been a blond moment!
Ive heard the SNCF contract could be ending shortly. Be very interesting, as you say. Perfect stock to run to Amsterdam, especially now Holland have their high speed line up and running. TGV manage Brussels to Amsterdam in less than 2hrs.

London to Holland is quite a large market, with virtually all of it on the airlines. A reasonably priced fast train service would really give the airlines some much needed competition.

 

[es373]

Something made me think some werent being used and were in store. Must have been a blond moment!
Ive heard the SNCF contract could be ending shortly. Be very interesting, as you say. Perfect stock to run to Amsterdam, especially now Holland have their high speed line up and running. TGV manage Brussels to Amsterdam in less than 2hrs.

London to Holland is quite a large market, with virtually all of it on the airlines. A reasonably priced fast train service would really give the airlines some much needed competition.

Who knows! Shall be very interesting to see what happens indeed.

 

[stanley T]

Who knows! Shall be very interesting to see what happens indeed.

They would need to be fitted with the (unique and complicated) Dutch automatic warning system; and presumably modified to run on 1.5kV, but that should not be much of a problem. And all for the last few kms from Schiphol to Centraal!

 

[es373]

That is indeed correct StanleyT

 

[cj_1985]

pretty sure that the new Valero-D/E320 siemens units are for deployment on routes including the current london-paris/brussels and new routes. largely since the new units can be built to be compatible with the various safety systems and different power supplies that wouldnt be possible or financially justifiable to convert the 373s to work with

iirc germany and netherlands were two of the suggested destinations

 

[es373]

pretty sure that the new Valero-D/E320 siemens units are for deployment on routes including the current london-paris/brussels and new routes. largely since the new units can be built to be compatible with the various safety systems and different power supplies that wouldnt be possible or financially justifiable to convert the 373s to work with

iirc germany and netherlands were two of the suggested destinations

I think the only thing missing from current 373 stock that prohibits them runnning over there is the lack of ERTMS.

 

[WestCoast]

I for one wont be touching DB. Eurostars are head and shoulders over the ICEs.

Not in my opinion they aren't. Eurostar's current class 373 are well engineered trains, but the interiors aren't wonderful at all, this will change though. There are many generations of "ICE" as well, from loco-hauled to Siemens Velaro. Certainly can't beat a front lounge experience on the ICE3!

Strictly my opinion, all of them are very good trains and beat Pendolinos/Voyagers by miles, but the current class 373, I feel, is let down by the interior spec.

Can't wait to see what a refurbishment brings though!

 

[cj_1985]

i don't know about the ICE3 units...
but im not a fan of the as built, or current interiors of the class 373s...

personal opinion is that they are too french, and not as comfortable as british spec units...

hell, the voyagers are miles ahead of the 373s in my honest opinion...

 

[WestCoast]

hell, the voyagers are miles ahead of the 373s in my honest opinion...

I really don't think you can put Voyagers and class 373s in the same league....

Well, Eurostar will be operating Siemens Velaros too, so if DB do end up running cross channel services with their new Velaros, it will be interesting to see what differences there are.

 

[es373]

Lol if you knew just what exactly happens in a 373 from a technical perspecttive.... You wouldn't say that.
Interiors too french? Well it was a french company! I agree, I'm not mad on the interiors but they have been in service for 17 years with one refurb to the name. They are old trains, voyagers/pendos are a lot more modern then 373's.
Show me a train as advanced as the TMST when it first rolled off production please!

 

[WestCoast]

Lol if you knew just what exactly happens in a 373 from a technical perspecttive.... You wouldn't say that.
Interiors too french? Well it was a french company! I agree, I'm not mad on the interiors but they have been in service for 17 years with one refurb to the name. They are old trains, voyagers/pendos are a lot more modern then 373's.
Show me a train as advanced as the TMST when it first rolled off production please!

Just to clarify, I would put a 373 (or any other TGV or ICE/Velaro) far, far ahead of a Pendo/Voyager! They just are not comparable!

Interiors too french? Well it was a french company! I agree, I'm not mad on the interiors but they have been in service for 17 years with one refurb to the name.

The interior is rather drab, I am not sure about "french" though, just drab. They don't look good in comparison with the fresher ICE interiors (and yes, the ICE1s are just as old with ONE refurb), which for me, creates a better travelling experience. I was disagreeing with the comment about the class 373s being "head and shoulders" above any version of the ICE, which doesn't correspond with my experience.

Having said that, the class 373 may be a little tired and drab on the inside, but it's nothing a decent refurbishment couldn't solve! They are still very good trains.

 

[es373]

Yeah I know that fella. Alright the various components are rather bulky on a 373 but I don't see a pendo tearing it up at 186mph! Lol

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Just to clarify, I would put a 373 (or any other TGV or ICE/Velaro) far, far ahead of a Pendo/Voyager! They just are not comparable!

The interior is rather drab, I am not sure about "French" though, just drab.

I'd agree - the 373 is far more comfortable than the Voyagers / Pedalos. And the vast majority of the seats line up to the ( nice big! ) windows.

As to the "French" interior, well... it is virtually identical to the TGV interior, particularly that of the TGV-A.

 

[es373]

373 is basically a 'baby TGV'. All of the equipment in the 373 you will pretty much find in the TGV's. Its just smaller so it fits with UK's loading gauge.

 

[WestCoast]

As to the "French" interior, well... it is virtually identical to the TGV interior, particularly that of the TGV-A.

It's not like the latest refurbished TGV sets with the jazzy seat colours and all...

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It's not like the latest refurbished TGV sets with the jazzy seat colours and all...

Thankfully, in my opinion!

 

[cj_1985]

don't misunderstand me...
i know that the Eurostars were built by a french company to a baby version design of the french High speed unit

but the seats (when new and after their first major refurb) are too thin, hard and uncomfortable for a trip like london to paris.. even when running on HS lines...

the tables.. they iritate me to an insane degree... just like the tables fitted in (atleast part of) first class in the pendolinos... ie. the little half tables with flip down bits...
if im going to sit at a table on a train i want a solid table.. not a stupid wee half flappy table...

while the Eurostars are built to a french spec, in a UK gauge body, by a french company... Eurostar is not (or was not) solely a french company... it is (or was) part french, part british, and part belgian... yet we are subjected to french spec interiors...
even on the BR ordered mini eurostars...

i stand by my opinion... voyager (or even a turbostar) over a 373.... or even a mk.2 carraige

 

[es373]

Do you not think I know that? Look under my user and look ayt my user. Lol

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Oh I agree the 373 seats are hard, but I still find them more comfortable than the Pedalos of Voyagers.

 

[MCR247]

They also seem not to have much legroom at least where I was sat..

I think everyone can agree on the fact that they look tired though

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Yes, they do look like new fabric is due.

Not aware of any poor legroom on them, though - but then again I always take one of the airline seats near the back of the carriage ( seat 74, car 2, 3, 4 or 5 away from London and car 14, 15, 16 or 17 towards London ). Plenty of room there.

 

[MCR247]

I was in car 5 seats 27 & 28 and legroom was very poor. And the bin thing is always in the way if you sit at the window!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Yes - the bin should be moved elsewhere.

And the reason I use seat 74 rather than the one two rows further back is I got fed up with bashing my head on the escape bar!

 

[es373]

If you don't like the bin... Move it. Its only a push on pull off thing then put it under your seat.
Quiet simple really fellas!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Is it? I never realised that! Thanks!

 

[MCR247]

Never knew that!

 

[notadriver]

the trains arent too long. many of times they run to capacity. power to weight doesn't mean anything as the top speed they can go is 180 mph in service. if there was no restriction then 200 is achievable. so no matter how much power or how light it is, top speed wont change.
as for your second point, no NoLs have run through the tunnel in service.

The Eurostars have the lowest power to weight ratio of all the TGV family. They have 12 * 1020 KW motors for a train weight of around 800 tons. The TGV-A has 8 * 1100 KW motors for 380 tons. I read somewhere that when Eurostars are used on the Parid Sud Est LGV line that if they are checked they are unable to recover time probably due to the fearsome 1 in 28.5 gradients on that route. LGV nord gradients are 1 in 40 max.

 

[es373]

6 12.2MW asynchronous traction motors per half set. First 3 bogie are powered - both M1 and first bogie on the R1. 2 gearboxes per motor.

They are bloody powerful units!

 

[Peter301184]

The Eurostars have the lowest power to weight ratio of all the TGV family. They have 12 * 1020 KW motors for a train weight of around 800 tons. The TGV-A has 8 * 1100 KW motors for 380 tons. I read somewhere that when Eurostars are used on the Parid Sud Est LGV line that if they are checked they are unable to recover time probably due to the fearsome 1 in 28.5 gradients on that route. LGV nord gradients are 1 in 40 max.

re read what I said. In service max speed of eurostar is 186MPH, this is governed by and only governed by the track. The track can't cope for speed over 186mph.

The land speed record in the UK was set by a eurostar that had slightly bigger wheels to change the ratio. So a standard eurostar could achieve over 200mph.
Yes power to weight is worse then any other tgv BUT it's still the MOST powerfull TGV ever built.

Speed in the tunnel is 99mph.

Out of all the other tgv's normal service max speed is 199mph. So all in all not alot of difference.

Little advantage i'd see of a shorter eurostar and a 3-cap even if max service speed was increased to 200MPH as the 3-caps could do that EASY.