Eurostar changes

[AdamWW]

The new version of the Ski train (Eurostar to Lille, TGV from there with good connections) is, I hope, a sign of the future - good connections in Lille and Brussels to TGV and other Eurostar (ex-Thalys) services. And if that happens, that’s actually pretty good. And arguably much more useful than some isolated „direct“ trains with a Lille shuffle on the return leg. Better to have several good connections a day to Marseille, Bordeaux, Köln etc.

Though of course getting off and back on the same train at Lille does have the advantage that you can't miss your connection there (and of course you have to "change" both ways, not just coming back).

 

[MattSGB]

I can't see where it says that. As such it's a massive increase in redemption costs: you now need to spend £833 rather than £500 for a free "value" standard redemption for a basic member. An Étoile member will need to spend £474.

Upgrades from Standard to Standard Premier haven't changed, or they've changed from 500 to 600 points but that's the same spend requirement under the new earnings rates.

Indeed. If 900 passengers arrive at T-31 they won't all get processed in time.

Well that's rather annoying. I bought a relatively expensive upgrade on my last Eurostar journey so that it would push me over 1000 points, in order to claim free upgrades on my next journey (for two passengers). Now I am going to have to get more points. A lesson on how to piss-off loyal customers.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Oct 2023 ==

Well that's rather annoying. I bought a relatively expensive upgrade on my last Eurostar journey so that it would push me over 1000 points, in order to claim free upgrades on my next journey (for two passengers). Now I am going to have to get more points. A lesson on how to piss-off loyal customers.

I take it all back. They seem to have increased my points by 20% with the migration.

 

[jon0844]

Not sure why the new app allows me to check other (Thalys) destinations, beyond what Eurostar had before, but then can't find any trains to give prices on.

Are they going to actually sell tickets from London to Cologne via the app, or just the original Eurostar destinations? Someone should tell the developer so they can make it clearer.

 

[popeter45]

Each time you book, you'll earn reward points that you can put towards tickets, discounts and upgrades.

When you buy Eurostar tickets, you'll also earn status points. These help you to move up a club level and get even more Club Eurostar benefits.

how are they diffrent?, surely if your booking your buying tickets?

 

[Mainline421]

Reported on Head for Points forum that people who've been dongarded might get the status back within 2-3 days. Not seen anything from Eurostar myself though

 

[martin2345uk]

Have the 373s been given the new livery? I live right next to Stratford Int'l, so I see them go past every day. I don't think I've seen a single 374 with the old branding in a while, but I haven't seen a single 373 with the new branding. Are they set to get it?

No 373's done yet, AFAIK.

 

[riceuten]

I would imagine the (small) food service for Standard Premier will go pretty sharpish - it's the kind of low hanging fruit that accountants love. Same with Thalys and SNCF/DB on their TGV Est European routes. It's quite labour intensive and they could shed/not recruit a few staff.

 

[island]

how are they diffrent?, surely if your booking your buying tickets?

Just wording. Every time you travel you’ll get both types of points. Avantage and higher members will get more reward than status points.

I would imagine the (small) food service for Standard Premier will go pretty sharpish - it's the kind of low hanging fruit that accountants love. Same with Thalys and SNCF/DB on their TGV Est European routes. It's quite labour intensive and they could shed/not recruit a few staff.

I hope not as it’s a nice add-on and breaks up the trip. (Was also a good excuse to take masks off in those days.) And they’d still need catering staff on board anyway for business premier.

 

[ainsworth74]

I hope not as it’s a nice add-on and breaks up the trip. (Was also a good excuse to take masks off in those days.) And they’d still need catering staff on board anyway for business premier.

Agreed it definitely is a nice little add-on. And I've always found it works very well as lunch (as I tend to travel at that sort 1300 - 1600 window where a light meal works well) which is helpful on a travel day as you don't need to worry about eating!

On the catering staff point though presumably they'd get away with less? I've always assumed that there's one set that does Standard Premier and one that does Business Premier, so you'd be able to reduce the numbers if there was no catering in Standard Premier.

 

[island]

On the catering staff point though presumably they'd get away with less? I've always assumed that there's one set that does Standard Premier and one that does Business Premier, so you'd be able to reduce the numbers if there was no catering in Standard Premier.

True – I think on the 374s it’s one set of staff at each end who do BP and SP at the front and just SP at the back, so you’d be doing away with the latter. Though if they’re employed under French law good luck making anyone redundant…

 

[riceuten]

I agree it's the main reason I book Standard Premier - if the difference is only €/£10-15 then I will book it. But I agree that they could probably do with less staff if they did it, which would be a huge shame.

 

[jon0844]

If they were to get rid of the free food and drink in standard premier, perhaps they could at least offer an at-seat ordering service. If you have to get up and walk through to the cafe, I think a lot of people would just stick to regular standard (which isn't exactly terrible).

My last trip was Premier and even there the food isn't that spectacular as I remember it, and there's no coming around topping up champagne as I remember from years ago. Clearly the benefits are the lounge (where it's suddenly okay to rock up early and not have to sit squashed in the departure lounge at St Pancras) and the flexibility for which train you want to use, not the catering.

But cost cutting can only get you so far.

 

[Trainbike46]

Why are people speculating that Eurostar will remove the food and drink in Standard Premier? They've had it for years, and I have not seen any suggestion from a credible source that they're even considering it?

 

[riceuten]

If they were to get rid of the free food and drink in standard premier, perhaps they could at least offer an at-seat ordering service. If you have to get up and walk through to the cafe, I think a lot of people would just stick to regular standard (which isn't exactly terrible).

My last trip was Premier and even there the food isn't that spectacular as I remember it, and there's no coming around topping up champagne as I remember from years ago. Clearly the benefits are the lounge and the flexibility, not the catering.

But cost cutting can only get you so far.

You assume that the people running the service want to actually do something useful for passengers. I think what will happen in reality is

i) they abolish the free food
ii) bookings plummet for Standard Premier
iii) they propose to delete Standard Premier as an option and refit the carriages as 2nd class
iv) ...but don't because they can't cope with additional seating this would produce

The food isn't spectacular, and I've never, ever been served champagne (though a very nice Grenache...) but it's worth €10/£10.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Oct 2023 ==

Why are people speculating that Eurostar will remove the food and drink in Standard Premier? They've had it for years, and I have not seen any suggestion from a credible source that they're even considering it?

Because they removed it from Thalys (now part of E*), and SNCF cross border trains in a similar class years ago. And they "had it for years" then.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If they were to get rid of the free food and drink in standard premier, perhaps they could at least offer an at-seat ordering service. If you have to get up and walk through to the cafe, I think a lot of people would just stick to regular standard (which isn't exactly terrible).

I doubt it. Most people travelling in an upper class do so for the higher quality and better spacing of seating and/or a quieter environment, hence why this is the only offer of First Class on most European trains.

 

[LowLevel]

Why are people speculating that Eurostar will remove the food and drink in Standard Premier? They've had it for years, and I have not seen any suggestion from a credible source that they're even considering it?

For 20 plus years rail staff could book SP and then they decided it was all a big mistake and binned it - don't assume anything with these guys

 

[jon81uk]

The food isn't spectacular, and I've never, ever been served champagne (though a very nice Grenache...) but it's worth €10/£10.

champagne is only in business premier, not standard premier.

business premier is also a three course meal, not just a starter and dessert.

 

[riceuten]

I doubt it. Most people travelling in an upper class do so for the higher quality and better spacing of seating and/or a quieter environment, hence why this is the only offer of First Class on most European trains.

Standard Premier is a fairly unique case. People will not pay €50/£50 extra for

higher quality and better spacing of seating and/or a quieter environment

 

[Bletchleyite]

Standard Premier is a fairly unique case. People will not pay €50/£50 extra for

I would. Indeed, I do, with basically an identical product minus the food from Avanti. As has everyone sitting in a First Class seat on most European railways away from the Romance style high speed stuff.

An individual seat with no neighbour nor person opposite is an incredibly valuable thing, be that so you can work in peace, you don't push up against another person, you don't have to ask them to move to get out and they won't ask you to move to get out and so on, and you can have both a window view and easy access to the aisle. The 2 side has less value of course, though it is still more spacious.

I don't mind free food, but it isn't any part of the purchase process, as purchasing something nice from M&S or "le M&S" (!) is easy and cheap.

 

[riceuten]

I would. Indeed, I do, with basically an identical product from Avanti.

An individual seat with no neighbour nor person opposite is an incredibly valuable thing, be that so you can work in peace, you don't push up against another person, you don't have to ask them to move to get out and they won't ask you to move to get out and so on, and you can have both a window view and easy access to the aisle. The 2 side has less value of course, though it is still more spacious.

I think in most cases it's usually a firm that pays this kind of supplement, rather than the customer. I've travelled Standard Premier numerous times, and I've not noticed it being particularly quieter.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think in most cases it's usually a firm that pays this kind of supplement, rather than the customer.

Increasingly not. My employer for one has a "no premium classes" policy; the increasing prevalence of fixed fee upgrades is to enable the business traveller to easily self-fund the upgrade if they wish.

I've travelled Standard Premier numerous times, and I've not noticed it being particularly quieter.

Typically Avanti SP is so that's surprising. But there are fewer people in the vehicle so it naturally should be a bit. But the main thing on sale is substantially upgraded comfort, just as it is on premium classes in aircraft. Don't you thoink that if the food was the main pitch SP would just be Standard 2+2 with better food?

 

[riceuten]

Increasingly not. My employer for one has a "no premium classes" policy; the increasing prevalence of fixed fee upgrades is to enable the business traveller to easily self-fund the upgrade if they wish.



Typically Avanti SP is so that's surprising. But there are fewer people in the vehicle so it naturally should be a bit. But the main thing on sale is substantially upgraded comfort, just as it is on premium classes in aircraft. Don't you thoink that if the food was the main pitch SP would just be Standard 2+2 with better food?

I think E* noticed they weren't selling enough First class tickets and decided to make use of the accommodation not otherwise occupied. As I recall, E* originally had two different 1st Class offerings, the latter of which was downgraded to Standard Premier and therefore sold a lot more tickets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think E* noticed they weren't selling enough First class tickets and decided to make use of the accommodation not otherwise occupied. As I recall, E* originally had two different 1st Class offerings, the latter of which was downgraded to Standard Premier and therefore sold a lot more tickets.

The SP thing was a brief attempt to get money from businesses with a "no first class" policy, until such businesses had the sense to update their policies to "no premium classes". I suspect it did well out of that. It was previously called something else a bit like "Leisure First" or something.

 

[nwales58]

Increasingly not. My employer for one has a "no premium classes" policy; the increasing prevalence of fixed fee upgrades is to enable the business traveller to easily self-fund the upgrade if they wish.

20 years ago my firm's customers had similar policies, albeit when fully flexible fares were normal.
It lead to BA/BACon regional routes to Europe (long gone) pricing flexible economy at GBP1 or 10 less than business, in most cases putting the economy fare up so the firm paid a lot more than previously.

Eurostar then did not have the middle class and the flexible standard fare was about Eur40 less than first so it worth paying at the end of the day for a meal and peaceful trip back. In those days you could upgrade on board with the train manager.

Then customers' travel policies demanded the ticket being submitted (because of fraud where people booked, refunded and travelled in someone else's car) and started refusing to pay anything for a ticket upgraded to business! The contract was on their side.

 

[jon0844]

You assume that the people running the service want to actually do something useful for passengers. I think what will happen in reality is

i) they abolish the free food
ii) bookings plummet for Standard Premier
iii) they propose to delete Standard Premier as an option and refit the carriages as 2nd class
iv) ...but don't because they can't cope with additional seating this would produce

The food isn't spectacular, and I've never, ever been served champagne (though a very nice Grenache...) but it's worth €10/£10.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Oct 2023 ==


Because they removed it from Thalys (now part of E*), and SNCF cross border trains in a similar class years ago. And they "had it for years" then.

Does anyone know when they stopped giving the champagne? You got it in standard premier (or whatever it used to be called) too, not just business premier.

And, if you asked you could get a refill - plus on one journey, there were four of us and we ended up being given a bottle to top ourselves up! That was some years ago now, back when I was on a press trip with Orange (and EE was created in 2010 so it was before that).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Oct 2023 ==

I doubt it. Most people travelling in an upper class do so for the higher quality and better spacing of seating and/or a quieter environment, hence why this is the only offer of First Class on most European trains.

Sure, it's a cheap way to get the space of first class - but it can be quite a lot more money, and standard isn't bad (matching first class on many ordinary rail services, some of which may be longer trips than Eurostar). I think the food and drink, which is always guaranteed, can justify the extra expense. It helps you by not having to rush to get something to eat at a train station before, or check in early enough to eat before boarding.

Of course if it goes, people will soon forget it ever existed - just like people forget that the food and drink offering used to be a lot better, including bottomless champagne!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sure, it's a cheap way to get the space of first class - but it can be quite a lot more money, and standard isn't bad (matching first class on many ordinary rail services, some of which may be longer trips than Eurostar).

It does nothing of the sort. It's 2+2 and the seats, while quite comfortable, aren't that special (they're very similar to say the Grammer IC3000), and legroom is fairly average to bad (bad in the table seats due to their stupid design with a "knee barrier" in the middle).

Only "sham First" on South East commuter services is comparable with it.

I think you're getting dragged into the "Eurostar is amazing" thing - as far as the Siemens Velaro goes, they're a pale imitation to the ICE with a very average interior.

I think the food and drink, which is always guaranteed, can justify the extra expense. It helps you by not having to rush to get something to eat at a train station before, or check in early enough to eat before boarding.

It's nice, but popping to a shop in the station is easy enough too. Or if travelling outside of a mealtime you don't really need any food.

Of course if it goes, people will soon forget it ever existed - just like people forget that the food and drink offering used to be a lot better, including bottomless champagne!

Yeah, people will continue to upgrade for the higher quality seat and environment. The food is a gimmick.

 

[williamn]

Leisure Select, which was the forerunner of Standard Premiere, was a lot more generous - I think a hot meal and lots of top ups of drink. I suspect they found it was abstracting from proper first class revenue.

In Standard Premiere its a cold meal (main and dessert with bread roll for lunch and eve), and seems to be a strictly one drink policy. My last trip from Brussels the food service didn't arrive until the tunnel by which time I was wondering if it was ever going to appear!

 

[BahrainLad]

IIRC when Eurostar started it had Standard and First.
They then brought in a Premier First which was the fully flexible tickets, which (for a time) could be interchanged with British Midland business class flights from either CDG or BRU to/from London. Free taxis in London rings a bell.
They then updated it to Leisure First / Business First. Leisure First was great, essentially what the Business Premier is now food-wise, with a choice of hot meals and wines and free-flowing champagne (a *lot* was distributed on Friday evening trains IIRC). LF didn't come with lounge access and was very keenly priced (I think I paid £140 return for a Paris weekend in 2007 just before STP opened)
Then they introduced the current Standard Premier and Business Premier model around 2010?
When SP was introduced the food was almost universally panned - they went from hot meals to a tray of three tiny plates of canapes pretty much, I remember a single small roll with a slice of cheese, chopped carrots with one prawn, and a couple of tiny slices of saucisson. Breakfast was a yoghurt and roll and pastry. As a result SP food was slightly improved to the get to the cold-salad style main course + dessert which you have today.

My thoughts on SP vs Standard: If I am on my own, I will always aim for SP for the reasons Bletchleyite states. For a couple, or 3/4 people, it's Standard all the way especially if you can sit around a table. The food in SP is nice but I tend to self-provision in Standard as you can take bottles and corkscrews through security with no issues.
I would actually compare the seating with the rival operators on the route i.e. the airlines, where Eurostar Standard is certainly more comfortable and with more legroom than an economy airline seat.

 

[jon0844]

It does nothing of the sort. It's 2+2 and the seats, while quite comfortable, aren't that special (they're very similar to say the Grammer IC3000), and legroom is fairly average to bad (bad in the table seats due to their stupid design with a "knee barrier" in the middle).

If I'm on my own, I value a single seat for sure but is it necessarily worth the extra? It's personal choice but I'd say no unless I got a cheap deal. Getting food and drink could tip the balance, otherwise unless the price is right I'd slum it - mostly because the journey time is short and most of the time I'm not attempting to work and leave the laptop in my bag.

Since 1994, I've only ever gone standard maybe 5 or 6 times and otherwise always in a first class seat (sometimes Business Premier when someone else was paying).

They degraded the device once before and if they do so again I think they'll have gone too far and may lose custom. But maybe they're going to make it cheaper too and won't because people will be happy with a bigger seat.

 

[jon81uk]

Leisure Select, which was the forerunner of Standard Premiere, was a lot more generous - I think a hot meal and lots of top ups of drink. I suspect they found it was abstracting from proper first class revenue.

In Standard Premiere its a cold meal (main and dessert with bread roll for lunch and eve), and seems to be a strictly one drink policy. My last trip from Brussels the food service didn't arrive until the tunnel by which time I was wondering if it was ever going to appear!

I don't think the one drink policy is that strict, my parents holiday to Italy via train often and have asked the staff in SP if they have any spare wine left and ended up with plenty amongst their table!