Eurostar and Interrail

[Nigel]

On my most recent trip, I used Interrail for the first time since 1992 (I normally find that other ticketing options are far better value). I had no problems with any aspects of using the seven day Interrail flexi-pass on the Interrail app. I used it for both the outbound and return leg to the UK by Eurostar, having obtained the necessary Eurostar reservations.

I loaded my reservations into my Eurostar app and used that to go through the ticket gates at St Pancras and Gare du Nord. However after I had returned home, I realised that I had never loaded the Paris to London journey on to the Interrail pass. As with all the other journeys I made, I had set it up in the 'My trip' section of the app, planning to load it once it was clear that was the train I was about to board, but at Paris not having any interaction with a human, I just forgot about this last stage. I was not gaining any personal benefit from this oversight, as I had already activated the pass for that day to get to Paris.

This caused me to wonder about a few things. Is Eurostar potentially losing some money by not getting their share of Interrail revenue, if the Eurostar journey is not added to the pass? If so, why why does Eurostar not check for both reservations and pass activation? On the other journeys I made on this trip that required both a reservation and a valid pass, I was always asked by the ticket inspector to show both.

 

[Polarbear]

To answer your question-possibly. I don’t use Eurostar with Inter rail tickets often these days, but when I have, I don’t recall ever having to provide the Inter rail ticket to Eurostar staff. Swiping the reservation is all I’ve done to get through the terminals.

 

[popeter45]

considering the reservation only nature of eurostar, they could consider the reservation as proof for claiming from eurail

 

[rvdborgt]

This caused me to wonder about a few things. Is Eurostar potentially losing some money by not getting their share of Interrail revenue, if the Eurostar journey is not added to the pass?

Yes they are, since revenue is shared based on usage stats.

If so, why why does Eurostar not check for both reservations and pass activation?

They sometimes do, especially in Brussels.

On the other journeys I made on this trip that required both a reservation and a valid pass, I was always asked by the ticket inspector to show both.

It varies a lot. In France and Italy, they often ask for both. In Spain however, they almost never ask for the pass.

 

[30907]

On the cases mentioned, you cannot buy a passholder reservation without a unique pass number, so there is little or no opportunity for fraud (if you hadn't toggled any trains that day I suppose you could try and buy another passholder reservation.... ).

I doubt the allocation of revenue is that precise anyway - more like our ORCATS.

 

[rvdborgt]

On the cases mentioned, you cannot buy a passholder reservation without a unique pass number

Except that you can.

I doubt the allocation of revenue is that precise anyway - more like our ORCATS.

Why wouldn't it be accurate? Over 90% are mobile passes, which should be accurate enough as a sample.

 

[Nigel]

On the cases mentioned, you cannot buy a passholder reservation without a unique pass number, so there is little or no opportunity for fraud (if you hadn't toggled any trains that day I suppose you could try and buy another passholder reservation.... ).

Well, I can think of an opportunity for fraud, which doesn't involve additional passholder reservations, but since I don't want to encourage it, I will not spell out. That said, such a fraud would be picked up if there was any audit of used reservations against pass activation - but I am not sure that is done routinely.

 

[trei2k]

To answer your question-possibly. I don’t use Eurostar with Inter rail tickets often these days, but when I have, I don’t recall ever having to provide the Inter rail ticket to Eurostar staff. Swiping the reservation is all I’ve done to get through the terminals.

In Paris, the gate seems to reject the reservation when using Interrail for departures towards the UK. The person at the window on the left asks to see the Interrail pass. However, I've never been asked for it from the UK side.

 

[StarCrossing]

In Paris, the gate seems to reject the reservation when using Interrail for departures towards the UK. The person at the window on the left asks to see the Interrail pass. However, I've never been asked for it from the UK side.

Scanning only the reservation worked fine for me in Paris earlier this month.

 

[Nigel]

Scanning only the reservation worked fine for me in Paris earlier this month.

As it did for me, hence the query in my original post.

 

[mad_rich]

I imagine the income from selling reservations dwarfs the income they receive from a share of pass revenue, so that's possibly why they're not too focussed on checking passes. I also think the pass revenue calculation is more complex than a simple count of activated journeys.

I often, but not always, get asked to show my pass at Paris (boarding pass rejected by the gates); I don't think I've ever been asked at any other Eurostar departure point.

 

[rvdborgt]

In Brussels you also sometimes have to go to the check-in counter to show your pass.

 

[williamn]

A related question - I’ve never found correct Eurostar times within the Interrail app and always have to add trains manually. Why is this? I know that Interrail is reliant on train companies providing data but it feels odd to me that Eurostar info is never correct.

 

[Nigel]

A related question - I’ve never found correct Eurostar times within the Interrail app and always have to add trains manually. Why is this? I know that Interrail is reliant on train companies providing data but it feels odd to me that Eurostar info is never correct.

I think that is because the Interrail app adds in an allowance for check-in times. Just select the train with your scheduled arrival time.

 

[rvdborgt]

I think that is because the Interrail app adds in an allowance for check-in times. Just select the train with your scheduled arrival time.

"An allowance" it is indeed, but it's 35 minutes and not the check-in time. Since they've added this, it causes confusion and sometimes even panic. I see it every day, e.g. in various Facebook groups.

 

[Mike395]

"An allowance" it is indeed, but it's 35 minutes and not the check-in time. Since they've added this, it causes confusion and sometimes even panic. I see it every day, e.g. in various Facebook groups.

I can see their logic - 5 minute additional connection time buffer plus 30min minimum check in. But I think it could be presented differently such that it's less confusing and achieve the same result.

 

[Starmill]

I guess that they can probably configure the ticket gates to reject Interrail / FIP / other specific passenger types given they have everyone's name already. It may depend on how many people are checking in at particular times and what staff are available. If you haven't done your advance passenger information and did get a ticket somehow through a third party retailer, I think that would also reject and send you to the desk to add your details from your passport.

Turning to the question of the Interrail app, I am convinced it was previously possible to add and amend your journeys on the app for a short while after the day of travel, in case you had needed to alter travel plans in response to events happening late in the evening. I don't understand why this now doesn't happen sometimes, or if it ever still is rather than a midnight cutoff.

 

[rvdborgt]

Turning to the question of the Interrail app, I am convinced it was previously possible to add and amend your journeys on the app for a short while after the day of travel, in case you had needed to alter travel plans in response to events happening late in the evening. I don't understand why this now doesn't happen sometimes, or if it ever still is rather than a midnight cutoff.

Since a few months ago the journeys in your trip become fixed after the travel date (indeed at midnight). Previously, you could do anything, also way in the past. I suppose this is to prevent e.g. fraudulent compensation claims.

 

[Mike395]

Since a few months ago the journeys in your trip become fixed after the travel date (indeed at midnight). Previously, you could do anything, also way in the past. I suppose this is to prevent e.g. fraudulent compensation claims.

Exactly this, as I understand it. with the exception that trains that run into the next calendar day are editable until the timetabled arrival at your destination.

 

[DanielB]

Since a few months ago the journeys in your trip become fixed after the travel date (indeed at midnight). Previously, you could do anything, also way in the past. I suppose this is to prevent e.g. fraudulent compensation claims.

It also prevents valid compensation claims, as they ask you for a screenshot with the original journey in your trip. So you'll have to be able to switch back from the added alternate trains to the ones originally planned after your trip.
Otherwise it would conflict with the rule that you should have the train you are travelling in added to the app.

 

[rvdborgt]

It also prevents valid compensation claims, as they ask you for a screenshot with the original journey in your trip. So you'll have to be able to switch back from the added alternate trains to the ones originally planned after your trip.
Otherwise it would conflict with the rule that you should have the train you are travelling in added to the app.

It does not prevent that. You can change your journey still on the travel day. If you take other trains due to cancellation or delay, you just toggle off the train(s) you don't use anymore, and then toggle on your new train(s). Leave the original trains in your trip to document the original plan. Then you take a screenshot of your pass (with trains actually used) and your trip (with all trains planned and used).

 

[Starmill]

Exactly this, as I understand it. with the exception that trains that run into the next calendar day are editable until the timetabled arrival at your destination.

They don't seem to allow you to actually add a different train though after midnight. That can be quite a problem if you missed a connection and needed to add a different one.

It does not prevent that. You can change your journey still on the travel day. If you take other trains due to cancellation or delay, you just toggle off the train(s) you don't use anymore, and then toggle on your new train(s). Leave the original trains in your trip to document the original plan. Then you take a screenshot of your pass (with trains actually used) and your trip (with all trains planned and used).

I don't go through and add each train I might hypothetically want to use. So they're not there to toggle. Also if I tried to do that I'd have to add hundreds of possibilities per day.

I add the correct train once I am onboard and moving if a) the travel date was already activated prior to boarding and b) the train wasn't reasonably foreseeable in advance of the start of my pass (so not for example a Eurostar or other limited quota service). Doing this is within the terms of the pass anyway.

On the other hand I don't try to claim for compensation unless there's very significant disruption. When that has happened, I've used the screenshot of the app of the railway company I'm travelling with to demonstrate the delay I'm claiming for.

 

[bspahh]

I add the correct train once I am onboard and moving if a) the travel date was already activated prior to boarding and b) the train wasn't reasonably foreseeable in advance of the start of my pass (so not for example a Eurostar or other limited quota service). Doing this is within the terms of the pass anyway.

I saw a post from someone got a fine of €50 for each of 3 travellers the other day for getting on a TGV from Paris to Strasbourg without first toggling the journey on in the app. From the sounds of it, they might have had a single €50 fine, but arguing meant they got the charge for each traveller.

 

[Mike395]

I saw a post from someone got a fine of €50 for each of 3 travellers the other day for getting on a TGV from Paris to Strasbourg without first toggling the journey on in the app. From the sounds of it, they might have had a single €50 fine, but arguing meant they got the charge for each traveller.

I wonder if that was the first journey of their day i.e. the travel day hadn't been activated. Not toggling a journey on an already-activated travel day usually results in just getting educated on how the pass works, a fine in that scenario is harsh.

 

[williamn]

I think that is because the Interrail app adds in an allowance for check-in times. Just select the train with your scheduled arrival time.

That makes sense but is also incredibly confusing!

 

[rvdborgt]

I wonder if that was the first journey of their day i.e. the travel day hadn't been activated.

I've seen the same post and following discussion. They had already activated a travel day using the "Use travel day" button.

Not toggling a journey on an already-activated travel day usually results in just getting educated on how the pass works, a fine in that scenario is harsh.

I agree.

 

[mad_rich]

That makes sense but is also incredibly confusing!

Very confusing. As @rvdborgt says, there are questions pretty much every day about this. It's not even a sensible time to show.

A train at 11:04 will show as departing at 10:29. That's not the time check-in closes (10:34), or the time Eurostar would recommend you arrive (usually 75-90 minutes early) nor the time anyone should sensibly be aiming to arrive at the station (I tend to suggest about an hour, so around 10:00).

It even leads to more questions, such as 'Eurostar says I need to be there 90 minutes early. Is that 90 minutes before 11:04, or 90 minutes before 10:29?', and of course it's neither!

It's probably made worse for many UK travellers, since it may well be the first or second train they've tried to add, so they're unfamiliar with Rail Planner app anyway, and now they've fallen at the first hurdle.

 

[30907]

Very confusing. As @rvdborgt says, there are questions pretty much every day about this. It's not even a sensible time to show.

A train at 11:04 will show as departing at 10:29. That's not the time check-in closes (10:34), or the time Eurostar would recommend you arrive (usually 75-90 minutes early) nor the time anyone should sensibly be aiming to arrive at the station (I tend to suggest about an hour, so around 10:00).

It even leads to more questions, such as 'Eurostar says I need to be there 90 minutes early. Is that 90 minutes before 11:04, or 90 minutes before 10:29?', and of course it's neither!

It's probably made worse for many UK travellers, since it may well be the first or second train they've tried to add, so they're unfamiliar with Rail Planner app anyway, and now they've fallen at the first hurdle.

It seems now to have been amended to show the journey as one involving a connection which might reduce the number of queries slightly, but still not brilliant. ISTR DB used to show a transfer time from Bruxelles Midi to BM Eurostar but I can't find it now.

 

[Starmill]

I can see their logic - 5 minute additional connection time buffer plus 30min minimum check in. But I think it could be presented differently such that it's less confusing and achieve the same result.

I agree. It doesn't really make much sense, even though it's clear what they were attempting to achieve.

I've seen the same post and following discussion. They had already activated a travel day using the "Use travel day" button.

I would be very reluctant to rely on that, although there's no actual reason not to, rather than adding a journey and verifying that the ticket itself has generated for scanning that way, even if it were a journey you didn't take because it were before your intended journey.

In any case the Interrail conditions don't say you can't change the train after boarding so you can't really argue if someone has added a different train to the one they're actually on. I would never take the risk of presenting the ticket for inspection without correcting it mind. It only takes a few seconds to do so you can do it between hearing the ticket inspector approach and showing the code for scanning.

 

[zero]

So what happens to revenue allocation if you delete all your trains taken that day at 2359 (assuming no overnight sevices) and/or add trains you didn't actually take?

Can inspectors see what time trains were toggled on?