Eurostar accident

[callum112233]

Oops

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-england-15345681

 

[anthony263]

What i would like to know is how did he manage to get 1 of the doors to actually fall out of the train?

 

[callum112233]

I was wondering the same thing. Strange story.

 

[185]

There's gonna be those who always say "wait until the investigation..blah blah blah", but it's obvious, gonna be either an emergency door release or a broken window. Don't think there's any other feasible way off.

I've watched a 155 door open at 20mph!

 

[callum112233]

Faulty door lock?

 

[jopsuk]

Story has now been changed? Nothing about the door "falling out"- just a blowhard Tory MEP who doesn't actually know what an immigrant needs to do to be "illegal"- this chap appears to have presented himself at immigration at St Pancras, been refused entry and started to leave the country- none of which is illegal. It could be that he was trying to get off in order to enter the country illegally, but then again, it might just have been a suicide

 

[mappman1000]

Did immigration pay for him to get Eurostar back to Contintental Europe then??????

 

[Yorkswatcher]

How did he get on the train in Belgium in the first place!

 

[jon0844]

Would the MP suggest trains are made so doors can't be opened in an emergency? It seems like everything worked as designed.

Passenger decides to open door and jump from train to stay in the UK, the train brakes apply as soon as that happens. Surely this is how it works on any train? What's the alternative exactly? Seal the doors shut so they can't open without a key, combination or being cut open?

I doubt this was a suicide. I am sure the person concerned wanted to remain in the UK and was desperate to get off. The smart thing to have done would probably be to trigger the brakes, wait until the train stopped and THEN jump (and run).. but perhaps he thought he'd be chased by staff/passengers or caught easily? Maybe he didn't realise the brakes would trigger, but to jump from a train potentially doing 186mph would be suicide I suppose, even if not intentional.

If this is the first time it has happened since Eurostar started, and the outcome should deter others, I don't think we should be campaigning for the trains to be taken out of service and modified!

 

[jopsuk]

He quite possibly entered the EU illegally (presumably through Italy). From what I can make of the stories, he seems to have paid for his return journey to belgium?

 

[Oswyntail]

Would the MP suggest trains are made so doors can't be opened in an emergency? It seems like everything worked as designed....

The MEP (from the report) seems to have queried how it was possible to open a door on a train moving at high speed. To me, this seems quite a reasonable query. I cannot think of many emergencies when jumping out of the train at speed would be the safer alternative!

 

[jopsuk]

An emergency exit that can only be opened when the train is at rest would be more complex. As it is, there is no complexity- if you pull the handle, it WILL open. One that can only open when stopped needs to be able to detect that and never result in trapping passengers and crew inside a train that they need to evacuate from.

 

[HSTEd]

The MEP (from the report) seems to have queried how it was possible to open a door on a train moving at high speed. To me, this seems quite a reasonable query. I cannot think of many emergencies when jumping out of the train at speed would be the safer alternative!

And what happens if the "high speed interlock" was to malfunction during an emergency?
Only someone attempting suicide opens the train door at 186mph.

 

[brad465]

Only someone attempting suicide opens the train door at 186mph.

Maybe he didn't realise the brakes would trigger, but to jump from a train potentially doing 186mph would be suicide I suppose, even if not intentional.

If the train was passing through Cheriton then in the train would be near 100mph rather than 186mph, which would look more towards him wanting to get off, supposidly being an easier job. Nevertheless, any speed a Eurostar travels at on the open lines is dangerous, so many reasons are still possible.

 

[BestWestern]

What a berk this MEP bloke is. So a person shouldn't be able to open the door "unless there is a serious emergency"... So Eurostar really ought to have fitted intelligent doors which are able to make an independent judgement on whether or not they will open when somebody triggers an emergency egress?! What a t*at!

The world must surely get so tired with these low-level MP nobody types who always feel the need to make it known that they were around when something happened and offer the world their wisdom, presumably in a pitiful attempt at gaining some form of public recognition. Frankly, who gives a toss what he thinks, he clearly doesn't know what he's talking about. Plus he's an MEP, so sod him!

 

[jon0844]

The safety system is that when someone uses the emergency door release, the brakes trigger.

It's not likely the doors will simply fail in normal use. If they did, wouldn't the brakes trigger then too - before someone happens to try and the door release?

Seems like there's no real problem.

 

[ChrisCooper]

As far as I know this is the first incident in the UK where a person has been killed after leaving a train at high speed since the end of unlocked slam doors. Even in the days of unlocked slam doors (which up until the 90s ran at 125mph, and ran at 90mph for some time into the 21st century), people ending up on the track was rare. Fitting safety devices to prevent it happening would just add cost and complexity that is not justified given how rare incidents like this are. It wouldn't be that hard, easiest and safest way would be to have a lock that was electrically applied when the train exceeded a certain speed and was sprung released when power was lost, either due to the train dropping below the set speed or due to an accident, but it would cost to design and fit suitable devices to a variety of train types, and it's not really worth it.

One thing I don't understand though, I've not used Eurostar since it moved to St Pancras, but the times I did before then I never went through any checks on arrival, it was always before departure. Makes me think both how he got on in the first place (especially as it's the UK boarder authority who provide the staff at the French or Belgian end, and France who provide staff at the UK end) and also how he got caught at this end?

 

[Tracky]

I don't know about Eurostar trains but on ours even if you pull the egress handle the door will not release until the speed drops. Also the driver can over-ride the safety system for a limited time period.

Ive only had the handle pulled on me once and we were rolling into a station at the time. The speed was brought down quickly but the driver supressed the release until we reached the platform.

 

[jon0844]

Many buses have a lock that releases the rear emergency door when the bus drops below a certain speed, but that's necessary given kids could play with it - and the release is easily accessed.

It's somewhat less likely that this would happen on a train, behind a cover and out of reach of kids (who probably couldn't operate it anyway - in case someone suggested moving them down). I don't think we need the extra cost for locks that failsafe (i.e. release when power is lost) on a train.

I'd sooner suggest seatbelts for all passengers than this, and I don't think that's a good idea either (mind you, on Eurostar, it's the one place where you could have seatbelts, ironically!)

 

[Barrett M95]

You are all making the incorrect assumption that opening a door initiates a braking application. In this case it does not. The driver is made aware of the situation but no automatic system intervenes.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't know about Eurostar trains but on ours even if you pull the egress handle the door will not release until the speed drops. Also the driver can over-ride the safety system for a limited time period.

That is a requirement of GMRT2473 which doesn't apply to class 373.

 

[Tracky]

It may be a stupid question but why does GMRT2473 not apply to the class 373's?

 

[swt_passenger]

It may be a stupid question but why does GMRT2473 not apply to the class 373's?

Not a retrospective standard unless doors are modified.

The vehicle design requirements set out in this document are to be complied with by all vehicles of previously uncertificated designs with a Certificate of Conformance for Vehicle Design signed on or after 5 February 2005. In addition to this, any future vehicles built to the same design as a vehicle already having Engineering Acceptance, which enter service on Railtrack controlled infrastructure on or after 2 February 2008, shall comply with the design requirements.

Action to bring existing power operated external doors on passenger carrying rail vehicles into compliance with the requirements of this document is not required except where existing power operated external doors on passenger carrying rail vehicles are being modified in the area covered by the scope of this document

http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Railway_...ck/Railway Group Standards/GMRT2473 Iss 1.pdf

 

[Barrett M95]

Even without the retrospective part of that standard, the 373 has a rule book all of it's own due to it's unique operating conditions.

 

[IanXC]

Did immigration pay for him to get Eurostar back to Contintental Europe then??????

Maybe Eurostar have to pay as airlines do, strange with border checks already done tho. Border Officers can take the same powers as Police Officers, so maybe he was just 'put' on the next train?

 

[swt_passenger]

Even without the retrospective part of that standard, the 373 has a rule book all of it's own due to it's unique operating conditions.

Very true - as we know well enough from all the debate about other trains using the tunnel...

 

[Prodigy]

Managed to manually open the doors whilst moving? Wow, I guess Eurostar trains will be safety checked asap then.

 

[jon0844]

Using an emergency door release, not just trying to force it? If the latter, yes, it's an issue.

If the former, it's not something to worry about.

 

[Barrett M95]

As jonmorris0844 states - using the emergency door release is not the same as "forcing" a door open. There is an important distinction there. You can't have it so anyone can pull the lever and automatically apply the brakes in the middle of the channel tunnel.

 

[Nym]

185s have a two stage emergency stop / door open system, mechanically operated...

If you pull it with the vehicle moving at >2mph and air pressure available it applies the emergency brakes.
When you drop below ~2mph the sound you hear is the door crosslocks being released (air is let out of them) this is done in the case of an accident too, and the lever then mechanically releases the doors.

This is the same on any other seimens stock thats new IIRC

 

[Barrett M95]

185s have a two stage emergency stop / door open system, mechanically operated...

If you pull it with the vehicle moving at >2mph and air pressure available it applies the emergency brakes.
When you drop below ~2mph the sound you hear is the door crosslocks being released (air is let out of them) this is done in the case of an accident too, and the lever then mechanically releases the doors.

This is the same on any other seimens stock thats new IIRC

Again - that is because it is specified in GMRT2473. This applies to all new UK passenger stock with power doors.