European Train drivers

[Rookies]

Since 2007 or 2009 all qualified train drivers from EU can apply for qualified train driver jobs in any EU country. Does anyone know about companies who already employed drivers from any EU countries?

 

[driver9000]

You're only considered a qualified Driver if you hold rules competency for the network you want to work over. I am qualified to drive trains over Network Rail infrastructure but I can't apply for a qualified Driver job in say France because I'm not passed on their rules.

The EU Driving licence only shows you have met the European standard for psychometric and medical tests. You still need to be passed for any rules and traction which is contained on the certificate counterpart. Any Driver coming to Britain to work from the continent would have to apply for a Trainee Driver vacancy and sit the full training course.

 

[ComUtoR]

You're only considered a qualified Driver if you hold rules competency for the network you want to work over. I am qualified to drive trains over Network Rail infrastructure but I can't apply for a qualified Driver job in say France because I'm not passed on their rules.

Ok. Sooooooo. IF I applied to freight do I apply as a qualified Driver or a new entrant ? My assumption has always been that I am a "Qualified Driver" and should I wish to change employer (TOC/FOC) I would apply as a "Qualified Driver" Irrespective of my current rules and traction competence I will always need to be retrained to the current TOC/FOC competency level. eg. I know Jack Shee about tokenless block so I would 100% need to be rules trained for it.

There was a big chunk of the rule book that was missed because I would never see it on my TOC.

Many ex Drivers at my TOC have gone on to other TOCs as qualified Drivers but required rules and traction. MTR are recruiting "qualified Drivers" but they will need rules and traction for ETCS and ATO for the tunnels and the same would apply if I switched to HS1 but I still apply as a Qualified Driver.

Again, I'm pretty sure that if I applied to Eurostar I would apply as a "Qualified Driver" Being an already qualified Driver shows the new TOC/FOC that I am already competent and my training requirements are significantly less than any new entrant.

The EU Driving licence only shows you have met the European standard for psychometric and medical tests. You still need to be passed for any rules and traction which is contained on the certificate counterpart. Any Driver coming to Britain to work from the continent would have to apply for a Trainee Driver vacancy and sit the full training course.

I know very little about the EU license as my TOC will update mine at the last possible moment due to its associated cost. That aside; I thought that the new EU license was also to do with the new approach to the rule book and where there will be a standard set of rules for every EU Driver then bespoke rules for each independent TOC/FOC. Again my assumption; is that rules training is being slowly pushed out of the TOC's now* and that you will be able to qualify as a Driver with an EU license and apply to a TOC and for them to finish the competency requirements. ie. Traction, local rules, company procedure.


Cheers in advance for when you chop my post to pieces.

*edit. A new entrant at my TOC has just sat the NR run rules course

 

[Rookies]

so driver9000, a EU licensed train driver doesn't mean he only passed his medical and psichometric tests after all he has to pass exams and attend a 9 months course plus another 3 months for whatever traction he choose and after that another 4-8 weeks with the TOC to learn the routes..traction...policy etc.
So if you are a qualified train driver in UK and want to work in France, as long as you're French is good enough and meets the required level of speacking, reading/writing you CAN apply for a qualified train driver job. I'm interested in Germany as I know of TOC's and FOC's ready to pay and put you on a intensive course to learn German in 6 months time.

 

[ComUtoR]

so driver9000, a EU licensed train driver doesn't mean he only passed his medical and psichometric tests after all he has to pass exams and attend a 9 months course plus another 3 months for whatever traction he choose and after that another 4-8 weeks with the TOC to learn the routes..traction...policy etc.

The EU license is 2 parts. The License (I believe) is the part that is now kept by the Driver and denotes they have met required standards. (rules inclusive) The second part (the counterfoil) is local policy, rules, traction etc. and that is TOC/FOC based and maintained by the TOC but is not transferable and would remain with the TOC should you leave. (happy to be corrected here by anyone with better knowledge)

So your second part might not get you anything. I think this comes down to what "qualified driver" encompasses. I thought it referred to me personally as the applicant and Driver. (again, happy to be corrected)

 

[Rookies]

http://orr.gov.uk/what-and-how-we-regulate/licensing/train-driving-licences-and-certificates

 

[A-driver]

Southern took on a number of Eastern European drivers a while back to try to save costs. Wasn't over effective as they still needed almost as much training as a trainee driver and they quickly left after passing out to go and work in other countries...

 

[driver9000]

so driver9000, a EU licensed train driver doesn't mean he only passed his medical and psichometric tests after all he has to pass exams and attend a 9 months course plus another 3 months for whatever traction he choose and after that another 4-8 weeks with the TOC to learn the routes..traction...policy etc.
So if you are a qualified train driver in UK and want to work in France, as long as you're French is good enough and meets the required level of speacking, reading/writing you CAN apply for a qualified train driver job. I'm interested in Germany as I know of TOC's and FOC's ready to pay and put you on a intensive course to learn German in 6 months time.

It's not about the language you speak, it's about the competency you
hold. You are not qualified to drive on the French network and have no basic competency in their rules so you're not a qualified Driver. You would need full training on their system. Once you have passed the medical and psychometric tests you can apply for the licence but this doesn't make you a qualified Driver.
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Ok. Sooooooo. IF I applied to freight do I apply as a qualified Driver or a new entrant ? My assumption has always been that I am a "Qualified Driver" and should I wish to change employer (TOC/FOC) I would apply as a "Qualified Driver" Irrespective of my current rules and traction competence I will always need to be retrained to the current TOC/FOC competency level. eg. I know Jack Shee about tokenless block so I would 100% need to be rules trained for it.

There was a big chunk of the rule book that was missed because I would never see it on my TOC.

Many ex Drivers at my TOC have gone on to other TOCs as qualified Drivers but required rules and traction. MTR are recruiting "qualified Drivers" but they will need rules and traction for ETCS and ATO for the tunnels and the same would apply if I switched to HS1 but I still apply as a Qualified Driver.

Again, I'm pretty sure that if I applied to Eurostar I would apply as a "Qualified Driver" Being an already qualified Driver shows the new TOC/FOC that I am already competent and my training requirements are significantly less than any new entrant.



I know very little about the EU license as my TOC will update mine at the last possible moment due to its associated cost. That aside; I thought that the new EU license was also to do with the new approach to the rule book and where there will be a standard set of rules for every EU Driver then bespoke rules for each independent TOC/FOC. Again my assumption; is that rules training is being slowly pushed out of the TOC's now* and that you will be able to qualify as a Driver with an EU license and apply to a TOC and for them to finish the competency requirements. ie. Traction, local rules, company procedure.


Cheers in advance for when you chop my post to pieces.

*edit. A new entrant at my TOC has just sat the NR run rules course

You are a qualified Driver as you hold Network Rail competency. Applying to a UK company makes you qualified because of the network you work on (Network Rail and the RT8000 rules). Any additional rules you would need for freight such as T3 and pink pages would be covered by your new company along with traction.

I don't have the licence yet either and in years to come there may be a Europe wide rule book but that is a long way off if it ever comes. You are still only qualified in your own country unless you work across borders which is the main aim of the licence - to make trans border operation on the continent easier.

 

[WCMLaddict]

Driving licence is given to trainees before their final rules pass out ...

 

[Rookies]

It's a big difference between being qualified and being authorised.... Driver9000. This european rule does not apply to train drivers they've been qualified by a private company to drive trains on their private routes. If you want to change your TOC / FOC obviously you will have to be trained and authorised by them

 

[driver9000]

It's a big difference between being qualified and being authorised.... Driver9000. This european rule does not apply to train drivers they've been qualified by a private company to drive trains on their private routes. If you want to change your TOC / FOC obviously you will have to be trained and authorised by them

What private routes? I'm not sure I'm following you. The EU licence is your property and is your proof you met the standard. The certificate detailing your competency belongs to your employer but should you leave you'll be given a copy as evidence of any transferable knowledge. My point still stands that your status as qualified is determined by your competence in a networks rules. Without the competence on your certificate for a foreign system you are not qualified and unable to apply for a qualified vacancy.

When I worked for my last TOC I was qualified and authorised to drive their trains, I came to my new TOC as a qualified Driver as I was still working on Network Rail and after undertaking the training I needed I was again authorised. You're right there is a difference but they go hand in hand.

 

[Rookies]

1. Introduction
Why has TDLCR been introduced?
1.1 TDLCR is legislation that brings in to force the requirements of European Commission Directive 2007/59/EC (on the certification of train drivers) (the Directive) in Great Britain. It introduces a licensing and certification system for many train drivers in Great Britain.
1.2 The Directive forms part of the European Commission’s plan to make Europe’s railways more efficient and competitive. The main objectives of both the Directive and TDLCR are to:
• make it easier for cross-border rail services to operate;
• create a more flexible job market for train drivers;
• introduce consistent standards for drivers across Europe; and
• increase public confidence in the rail system through the requirement for certain groups of train drivers to hold a licence.
1.3 We believe that introduction of TDLCR will:
• make it easier for train drivers to change jobs between employers and Member States;
• make sure every driver’s fitness to drive and general driving competence is assessed against minimum requirements that apply in all Member States;
• make sure driving licences and certificates are recognised by everyone in the railway industry;
• allow employers in Great Britain to make sure that licences issued by other Member States are valid;
• create a ‘single certification’ model for railway undertakings and infrastructure managers to use in the training and development of drivers; and
• reinforce management of driver skills and knowledge as a key part of an operator’s safety management system (SMS).
When does TDLCR apply from?
1.4 The requirement to hold licences and certificates issued under TDLCR comes into effect in three phases:
• New cross-border drivers – from 29 October 2011
• New domestic drivers – by 29 October 2013
• Existing drivers (cross-border and domestic) – by 29 October 2018
1.5 Under regulation 39(2), from 6 April 2011, drivers and employers have been able to apply for licences and certificates before they are required to hold them. A railway undertaking or infrastructure manager may want to use this provision so they can apply for licences for existing and new drivers at the same time. This may be useful if, for example, a small number of new drivers are recruited in 2013 and it is more practical to apply for all existing drivers’ licences at the same time, rather than waiting until 2018.
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This is the link you need to access http://www.railopsgroup.co.uk/app/d...riving-licences-regulations-2010-guidance.pdf

 

[W230]

Rookies, I think you're missing the point here a little.

A qualified UK train driver is qualified in the UK only. As stated to drive trains on Network Rail infrastructure. Yes, if you applied abroad you could say you were a qualified UK train driver. But you are only a qualified train driver in the UK. Not Spain, Germany, Venezuela...etc

The EU licence does not change this one bit.

 

[Rookies]

I think you haven't read that text or access that link

 

[theageofthetra]

Out of interest some TOC's expect you to pay back your training costs if you leave before a set period of time. How does that work if a driver gets trained and then moves to another country?-as appears to have happened in the Southern example above.

 

[A-driver]

I think you haven't read that text or access that link

That link is fairly irrelevant. Moving country or TOC as a qualified driver will still mean some retraining. If I moved to the north of Scotland I would need to be trained in the signalling systems up there. If I moved to parts of Wales id need training in ERTMS. If I moved to East Coast of need to learn rules around loco hauled stock and if I moved to freight is need a lot of retraining.

If I moved to France I'd have a fair amount of experience on the footplate which will be an advantage but would still need retraining in their rules and regulations. All the licence is for is to allow greater ease with cross border trains-so a German driver can drive on French infrastructure without needing additional paperwork to ensure they meet French standards as well as German ones.

 

[ComUtoR]

Out of interest some TOC's expect you to pay back your training costs if you leave before a set period of time...

First year Driver salary is typically less. That is part of the paying back of training costs. You also sign a contract and that will have some form of mechanic for the TOC to recoup the loss if you decide to leave withing X number of years.

 

[Rookies]

Where I come from (Romania) you can pay the school yourself which is about 1000 pounds (it may be cheap for you but not for romanians considering that not only you have to pay 1000 pounds for the course but you will have to be able to pay your bills and food for one year) or you can find an operator who will sponsor you with the course fees and he will also give you some money as trainee wedgees but you will have to sign a contract with him for a minimum of 5 years. It may sound great all this but after you became a qualified train driver the money you will get will almost pay for your bills and some food. So train drivers in Romania are only extremely passionate people as you can not make a good living out of this" trade".....I am one of them. I have been working in Uk for a while now to get enough money for the school and this year I will attend it. So at the moment I am living my dream. Few days back I found out about the European license and about some German Operators who are interested to get some romanian drivers working for them ...and this is how this thread got started