European timetable change 15 December

[radamfi]

What are the significant changes to timetables in Europe from 15 December?

Is there a formula to decide the date of the European timetable change? For the first time in a number of years, the UK is out of step by changing the times on 8 December instead.

 

[Zoe]

Directive 2001/14/EC amended by Comission Decision 2002/844/EC states:

The change of working timetable shall take place at midnight on the second Saturday in December. Where a change or adjustment is carried out after the winter, in particular to take account, where appropriate, of changes in regional passenger traffic timetables, it shall take place at midnight on the second Saturday in June and at such other intervals between these dates as are required. Infrastructure managers may agree on different dates and in this case they shall inform the Commission if international traffic may be affected.

 

[radamfi]

Cheers Zoe. I wonder if

In Britain it's always the second Sunday in December. I'm not sure what the rule is elsewhere.

is a different interpretation of the same directive, suggesting that midnight on Saturday is equivalent to Sunday?

 

[Zoe]

is a different interpretation of the same directive, suggesting that midnight on Saturday is equivalent to Sunday?

I note that the subsidiary change is done in May rather than the second Saturday in June though.

 

[Eagle]

Midnight on the second Saturday would indeed be 24.00 on December 14, which is the same thing as 00.00 on December 15.

I'm guessing that in Britain we simplified the rule without thinking it through.

But then again:

Infrastructure managers may agree on different dates and in this case they shall inform the Commission if international traffic may be affected.

so it's not a big deal if the dates differ.

 

[radamfi]

so it's not a big deal if the dates differ.

Probably not a big deal, but surely the whole point of changing on the same date is to help co-ordinate timetables across borders? Obviously the UK doesn't have that much of an overlap with other countries, but there is presumably some potential conflict between HS1 services in Kent and Eurostar, and HS1 services need to be co-ordinated with non-HS1 services in Kent.

 

[Zoe]

Obviously the UK doesn't have that much of an overlap with other countries, but there is presumably some potential conflict between HS1 services in Kent and Eurostar, and HS1 services need to be co-ordinated with non-HS1 services in Kent.

Also the Enterprise in Northern Ireland although I'm not sure which date NI Railways are using.

 

[radamfi]

Also the Enterprise in Northern Ireland although I'm not sure which date NI Railways are using.

Train times in Ireland (or NI) don't seem to change in December ever.

 

[Gordon]

It never works completely anyway because railways still want/need to change to suit local conditiones. Nowadays it is arguably less standardised than before the edict was made, when the majority of European railways made the summer and winter timetables changes at the same time, in May and September.

For example, in practice SNCF nowadays modifies timetables usually from the end of the first week in July, as that marks the end of the French 'working year' and the start of the holiday period.

 

[Zoe]

It never works completely anyway because railways still want/need to change to suit local conditiones. Nowadays it is arguably less standardised than before the edict was made, when the majority of European railways made the summer and winter timetables changes at the same time, in May and September.

The original wording of the directive actually had the principal change at midnight on the last Saturday in May. Where an adjusment was required after the summer this was to be at midnight on the last Saturday in September. However in 2002 this was amended so that the pincipal change date in December and an after winter adjustment in June if required. The reason stated for the change was commercial operation.

Which other countries do not currently change on the dates specified by the directive?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Everyone gets round it anyway by having "dated" trains within each timetable which operate until or from specific dates. In effect, they still operate their traditional changeover dates and directive compliance is covered by the "headline date" of the timetable.

The UK is a particularly obvious example of this practice...

 

[radamfi]

Some countries change their bus/tram/metro services on the December change date as well. They are probably more likely to stay the same throughout the year than the rail services.

 

[Eagle]

Well London Underground has the same timetable change dates as National Rail.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

As pointed out , there is flexibilty - the SNCF of course used to run lots of extra timetabled ski trains back the day - hence the TT change. Major changes in December are generally not good news.

 

[Zoe]

Major changes in December are generally not good news.

Then why was the date of the principal change moved from May (as originally planned on the directive) to December? The amendment said it was done for commercial reasons but if major changes in December are genrally not good then I'm not quite sure what these would be.

Back in 2004 it seems the plan was to move to a single annual timetable change in December (with intermediate adjustments in June if needed) and indeed as December 2004 approached there was reference on the website of at least one TOC that the network was moving to annual timetables. The 2004 Network Rail business plan also confirms plans to move to a single annual timetable change. This all seems to have disppeared now though and in 2011 East Coast had a major change in May.

 

[radamfi]

Major changes in December are generally not good news.

On the other hand, new lines and stations often open on the December change date.

Just read elsewhere that operators such as DB want to change the date to the end of summer time at the end of October to enable reservations for Christmas to be open in the summer, and that might happen around 2018.

 

[dutchflyer]

Which other countries do not currently change on the dates specified by the directive?

Well-did not know there was even some EU-ruling on this-always thought it was more like UIC=Trains united. Railways set their international timings in yearly conferences, alternating in big and small.
BUT; Scandinavia is usually out of line. They mostly change before/after their summer holidays and 1st weekend after 1/1. Also the old Russian-memberstates.
The reason to move the change to around 1/1 from the previous late may at that time was twofold:
1.to allow earlier bookings (in the past there was much more of restrictions on that as now-due to insufficient computers etc.) for the main summer periods.
2.to allow TOCs to adapt their timetables to the subsidies, which are mostly on a yearly base-from 1/1 till 31/12.
Still it does not make any sense to me to change it in the middle of works/schoolterms. The 1st weekend after 1/1 would be more fitting. But that was not done, as railways feared to much of work in the Xmas periods.

 

[Gordon]

.

The Swiss 'usually' adhere to the main timetable change date for sea-changes to their timetables, although this seems to be weakening where just changes of rolling stock type are involved - although this is not logical as new stock is often faster/better accelerating than old stock so the change should be tied to changes in train times.

Despite this, some changes of rolling stock utilisation have happened at random dates recently, such as the switch from RE4/4II to new units on Chur - St Gallen.

On the other side of the coin, the new 'Horaire Romandie 13' in Suisse Romande was launched at the December 2012 timetable change. This was a recast of the regional services west from Geneva tied with a change from Re4/4II to new double deck unit.


AFAIK the French will be adhering to the December timetable change for introduction of electric services on Chambery - Grenoble this year.







.