European Sleeper experience

[GW43125]

P.s @GW43125 do you know if this is a one off or if it will be a regular occurrence thought the summer?

27, 29, 30 June & 2nd July are the dates I've been given by email.

Unfortunately ended up abandoning Euro sleeper in favour of the NJ direct to Vienna as it looks like there are no trains across the Dresden-Prague border at all on those dates.

 

[nwales58]

29 June to 04 July is the bus period Dresden-Usti nad Labem.
Early and late RJ257 and EC179 still run in that period but I would expect them to be packed.

 

[GW43125]

29 June to 04 July is the bus period Dresden-Usti nad Labem.
Early and late RJ257 and EC179 still run in that period but I would expect them to be packed.

Thanks for confirming, would've been nice to have been told and save myself the small fortune I've just coughed up to Eurostar and ÖBB!

 

[StephenHunter]

27, 29, 30 June & 2nd July are the dates I've been given by email.

Unfortunately ended up abandoning Euro sleeper in favour of the NJ direct to Vienna as it looks like there are no trains across the Dresden-Prague border at all on those dates.

Big problem is that the Dresden route is the only route across the German-Czech border with two tracks or wires. The Cheb route is your main alternative.

 

[rvdborgt]

Thanks for confirming, would've been nice to have been told and save myself the small fortune I've just coughed up to Eurostar and ÖBB!

I think I wrote earlier not to rebook yourself, since European Sleeper would have been obliged to get you to your booked destination at no additional costs.

 

[GW43125]

I think I wrote earlier not to rebook yourself, since European Sleeper would have been obliged to get you to your booked destination at no additional costs.

I appreciate that, had Prague been my final destination and/or there had been other trains I'd have agreed with you, unfortunately the timings wouldn't have worked out.

 

[Krokodil]

I travelled from Berlin to Brussels on Thursday night. Overall I was satisfied. The coach was tired but clean, the bunks were comfortable (I thought that I'd booked in a six berth compartment but ended up in a five), having an opening window meant that we got ventilation (I've had sleepless nights before in compartments where the aircon wasn't up to the job), several toilets were out of action so I did have to walk a coach and a half before finding one that worked. It arrived at Berlin Hbf an hour late (mercifully as my train from Poland was late too) but seemed to make up time by the Dutch border. In the Netherlands it did have quite an abrupt stop at some point, and the rest of the journey was signal-to-signal (presumably due to lost path) so it arrived in Brussels 39 minutes late. Not too late by sleeper standards, particularly for anything which goes near Germany. I didn't mind the late arrival because it reduced the time festering in Brussels before my Eurostar.

Most importantly I had a good night's sleep, something I haven't had on some of the Nightjets I've taken, nor on a Caledonian Sleeper Mk3 (right at the end of service), never mind the lumpy middle berths in a Romanian couchette (the bunk folds around the headrest wings on those). A youth spent at sea has got me used to a rocking motion and white noise which probably helps. I certainly slept better than I did the following night in my own bed, where the cat kept pestering me.

 

[duesselmartin]

29 June to 04 July is the bus period Dresden-Usti nad Labem.
Early and late RJ257 and EC179 still run in that period but I would expect them to be packed.

anone coming from the south might find the CD/ALEX service from Munich to Praha useful.

 

[danshrimp]

(I thought that I'd booked in a six berth compartment but ended up in a five)

They're phasing out the six berth compartments, if you book one more often than not you'll find yourself getting a free upgrade. The five berths are often even used as seating cars with the bunks folded up.

Sounds like you had a good trip!

 

[AdamWW]

They're phasing out the six berth compartments, if you book one more often than not you'll find yourself getting a free upgrade. The five berths are often even used as seating cars with the bunks folded up.

Yes I booked a place in a 6 berth comparment (I think it was cheaper than the 5 berth ones, but I also fancied the opening window) and ended up in a 5 berth.

Then it turned out that the windows open anyway (if you apply enough force!)

Worked out very well - had the top one on the two berth side which meant I had a view out of the window from in bed and also access to the storage area above the door to put things on.

I don't know what happened to the 6th person booked into it though, if there was one.

 

[Krokodil]

Sounds like you had a good trip!

Yes, the €90 fare wasn't much more than I'd have paid Nightjet (FIP rate) if that had been available (I assume that it didn't run due to engineering work as I couldn't find any tickets available). The matching days of the week did mean booking an extra day's leave as I would otherwise have departed on the Wednesday.

So pretty good value for money. I presume that the economics of it compare favourably with other sleeper operations as they appear to be able to fill a long train without the trouble and expense involved with portion working.

 

[danshrimp]

So pretty good value for money. I presume that the economics of it compare favourably with other sleeper operations as they appear to be able to fill a long train without the trouble and expense involved with portion working.

Yes it's a great choice of route, covers multiple major destinations at both ends with no portion working. (The 6am arrival in Berlin/Amsterdam is too early for me but doesn't seem to be putting off others!)

That said, some people were murmuring about the donation link they added to this morning's newsletter potentially being a sign of trouble ("Exciting news in the works. Support us to get the night train to Barcelona on track. https://www.europeansleeper.eu/donate"). Asking for donations - after three sharefunding rounds and four loans - certainly doesn't project confidence and profitability! But I've heard positive noises about their plans for Barcelona recently and the fact that they're still talking about expansion in the first place is surely a good sign, hopefully it's just a question of acquiring capital to make the expansion work.

 

[mad_rich]

For a delay of 2h50, which qualifies for a 50% refund, they told me, on three different occasions:

1. We don't have to pay because we arranged alternative transportation
2. We don't have to pay because it was caused by circumstances out of our control
3. We don't have to pay because we told you two days before departure that there would be a new schedule

It's a shame. Because I want them to succeed, I was in two minds about asking for delay compensation. In the end I offered to accept a voucher instead of cash.

But because they're trying to pull the wool over my eyes, I've withdrawn that offer, and will only accept cash - within a strict 1 month deadline.

-

If they don't pay, I've already confirmed with the Belgian Rail Ombudsman that they can investigate the case. If necessary my credit card company can do a Chargeback or Section 75!

Pleased to report that ES have now refunded 50% of my fare, 10 days after I involved the Belgian Rail Ombudsman.

I haven't received the Ombudsman's ruling yet, but there's no sign of any gesture of goodwill (I asked for a small gesture: partly as compensation for the hassle of chasing them up, and partly because I firmly believe that companies should be penalised when they attempt to weasel out of their responsibilities). However, a friend has mentioned that this would be outside the remit of the Ombudsman, and I don't think I can be bothered to push any further.

I'll happily use ES again, assuming they survive. Despite their problems, I like what they're doing, and the onboard crew are great.

 

[GW43125]

29 June to 04 July is the bus period Dresden-Usti nad Labem.
Early and late RJ257 and EC179 still run in that period but I would expect them to be packed.

Sorry to dredge this up, ES have now changed their stance and are down as missing out Dečin and running to Prague with a ~1hr delay. Is there another route that's suddenly become available?

 

[30907]

Sorry to dredge this up, ES have now changed their stance and are down as missing out Dečin and running to Prague with a ~1hr delay. Is there another route that's suddenly become available?

Dresden-Zittau-Liberec-Prague, non-electrified - but I don't think that could be done in 3.5hr as they claim, and any other route would be longer still. Interesting....

I wonder if they have simply altered the hours of the block .

(From just north of Decin there is a right-bank alternative to the main line, which might account for omitting the stop there.)

 

[GW43125]

Dresden-Zittau-Liberec-Prague, non-electrified - but I don't think that could be done in 3.5hr as they claim, and any other route would be longer still. Interesting....

I wonder if they have simply altered the hours of the block .

(From just north of Decin there is a right-bank alternative to the main line, which might account for omitting the stop there.)

Thanks, that sounds more sensible! Diesel haulage would be nice though...

 

[otter11]

My parents are travelling from Berlin to Brussels on 24th June, booked a while back.
We just happened to be checking schedules online and noticed that the train is now using Berlin Gesundbrunnen rather than Hbf, with a new departure time. No communication from ES on this.

I assured my dad that they will contact him at some point to formally advise of the change, and I really hope this is the case! Definitely feels like comms could be improved. If they never email I will send a complaint as if we hadn't checked it would be very easy for them to have ended up at Hbf.

My parents aren't experienced international train travellers, and my dad started panicking when he couldn't see the departure from Hbf on the interrail app. Some comms whenever they make a routing change, at the point when they publish it, would be good!

 

[D6130]

My parents are travelling from Berlin to Brussels on 24th June, booked a while back.
We just happened to be checking schedules online and noticed that the train is now using Berlin Gesundbrunnen rather than Hbf, with a new departure time. No communication from ES on this.

I assured my dad that they will contact him at some point to formally advise of the change, and I really hope this is the case! Definitely feels like comms could be improved. If they never email I will send a complaint as if we hadn't checked it would be very easy for them to have ended up at Hbf.

My parents aren't experienced international train travellers, and my dad started panicking when he couldn't see the departure from Hbf on the interrail app. Some comms whenever they make a routing change, at the point when they publish it, would be good!

In my experience, the Interrail app doesn't show open-access operators' services anyway.

 

[otter11]

In my experience, the Interrail app doesn't show open-access operators' services anyway.

Not always, but it does show this one!

 

[D6130]

Not always, but it does show this one!

Interesting. Is that because InterRail is valid on ES services?

 

[danshrimp]

That's still a long way off, I suspect most rail companies would wait until at least the week of the journey before announcing changes on that scale even if they are known in advance. Announce it too early and people will forget, and they may want to leave open the possibility of switching back to Hbf if the trackwork goes better than expected.

But that said, it does create confusion if passengers looking ahead find different information online to their booking. And one might fear that the switch to Gesundbrunnen is so common at the moment that they have ended up forgetting to tell people... https://www.europeansleeper.eu/disruptions

ES 452 Prague/Berlin to Amsterdam/Brussels:

• 28 May : Due to an accident earlier in the day, the European Sleeper is severely delayed. The anticipated delay is now 2 hours, but may change. Please keep an eye on the signs at stations and the information in the travel planner apps.
• On 8, 10, 12, 15, 17, 19, 22, 24, 26 and 29 June no stop in Berlin Hauptbahnhof and Ostbahnhof, instead an additional stop in Berlin Lichtenberg and Gesundbrunnen.
• On 9 June no stop in Deventer and Amersfoort Centraal, instead an additional stop in Arnhem and Utrecht Centraal.
• On 3 July no stop at Berlin Hauptbahnhof and Ostbahnhof, instead an additional stop at Berlin Gesundbrunnen.

ES 453 Brussels/Amsterdam to Berlin/Prague:

• On 7, 10, 12, 14, 17, 19, 24, 26 and 28 June and on 1 and 3 July no stop at Berlin Hauptbahnhof and Ostbahnhof, instead an additional stop at Berlin Lichtenberg and Gesundbrunnen.
• On 9 June no stop in Deventer and Amersfoort Centraal, instead an additional stop in Arnhem and Utrecht Centraal.

 

[AdamWW]

Interesting. Is that because InterRail is valid on ES services?

I suspect not because it will happily show services that InterRail isn't valid on (with an appropriate warning).

I would imagine that it depends on whether the services are uploaded to the central database (MERITS?) that it uses or not.

 

[otter11]

That's still a long way off, I suspect most rail companies would wait until at least the week of the journey before announcing changes on that scale even if they are known in advance. Announce it too early and people will forget, and they may want to leave open the possibility of switching back to Hbf if the trackwork goes better than expected.

But that said, it does create confusion if passengers looking ahead find different information online to their booking. And one might fear that the switch to Gesundbrunnen is so common at the moment that they have ended up forgetting to tell people... https://www.europeansleeper.eu/disruptions

I think for an international sleeper service, 3 weeks isn't really a 'long way off' from a passenger's perspective. Personally I would rather they confirmed the change as soon as it was changed on their own website, and then followed up with a reminder a few days before the journey.

If they go to the effort of adding a banner on their website explaining the change of station for new bookings, it would be good courtesy at this point to inform existing bookings.

Appreciate my view might differ to others though, probably no right answer - as long as they do inform eventually!

 

[AdamWW]

I think for an international sleeper service, 3 weeks isn't really a 'long way off' from a passenger's perspective. Personally I would rather they confirmed the change as soon as it was changed on their own website, and then followed up with a reminder a few days before the journey.

You and me both. I don't think it's particularly helpful having a booking that says something different to the web site.

However, while I wouldn't defend them by suggesting that it's actually better for them not to notify people yet, they are a small organisation and suspect it's not easy being completely on top of such things.
(Sending out two warnings is fine in principle, but yet more work for someone).

 

[StephenHunter]

Thanks, that sounds more sensible! Diesel haulage would be nice though...

What could haul that rake anyway that's diesel?

 

[rvdborgt]

In my experience, the Interrail app doesn't show open-access operators' services anyway.

That depends on whether the info is in MERITS (and since when). But what the Rail Planner app says is not relevant anyway, and it should never be used to plan.

 

[StephenHunter]

I rode this from Prague to Brussels last week, when the overhead wires came down and we had a 95-minute delay at final stop. Sole occupancy of a compartment - I'd paid to share a double, but no-one bought the second ticket.

The AB30s are museum pieces now and I had to report a couple of faults, but the journey was very good overall. They actually had six couchettes and two sleepers in the rake, so something must be going right.

 

[Krokodil]

The AB30s are museum pieces now

For context, they're older than most ex-BR Mk1s, a design that hasn't seen regular service in 20 years.

 

[danshrimp]

The AB30s are museum pieces now and I had to report a couple of faults, but the journey was very good overall. They actually had six couchettes and two sleepers in the rake, so something must be going right.

Agreed on both counts. It's definitely well booked: last night they ran 10 couchettes and 2 sleepers, tonight it's 8 couchettes and 2 sleepers (https://www.europeansleeper.eu/train-composition). They have three AB30s but usually only two at most are in service, the third kept as a backup.

 

[D6130]

For context, they're older than most ex-BR Mk1s, a design that hasn't seen regular service in 20 years.

In all of the videos of the European Sleeper that I've watched on YouTube, at least one of the AB30s has had horrendous wheel flats....which can't be conducive to a good night's sleep!