European railways - no fences!

[JamieL]

Just had a very enjoyable holiday in Germany and Poland. I was quite surprised that in Poland especially there seemed to be a lack of any safety fencing around the railway lines even in very urban areas. In somecases the line, including Overhead Cables, ran directly adjacent to the road/pavement with no physical barriers in between at all. A stark contrast then with the barriers put in place in the UK adjacent to.public accessible areas.

It made me wonder about accident or incident rates. Does anyone know if Poland sees more issues than the UK due to a lack of such fencing? Or maybe less incidents because people just know to keep off the tracks?

 

[ABB125]

Did you see any people getting off a train then walking along the track for a bit until they get to a suitable gap in the hedge that's presumably the most direct route to their destination? I've seen plenty of that here in Hungary over the last few days...
There's been quite a few, shall we say, interesting, operational procedures that I've seen here that would probably cause UK health and safety people to die instantly of a heart attack, but everyone seems used to it.

 

[stuu]

Germany, Austria and Switzerland are very similar. Essentially it's your responsibility to not go where you shouldn't, rather than the landowner's responsibility to keep you off. The amount of graffiti by the tracks in Germany might hint at how successful this is

 

[NCT]

Makes you appreciate Britain's health and safety culture.

The Germans love a bit of fencing though. When I did Paris - Strasbourg and then Offenburg - Cologne last month the contrast between no fence and fence was stark. What's even more interesting is that in Germany they tend to erect a fence in the middle of a four-track formation - the Offenburg - Rastatt section being one example, and also the soon to be completed Dresdnerbahn inside Berlin.

 

[DanielB]

That fence in the middle might be an easy way to enable taking two tracks out of service for works whilst keeping the other two in use, eliminating the need for temporary fencing.

Similar but different: in the Netherlands a full height noise barrier was erected at one side of the Utrecht - Vleuten railway when the first half of the new embankment was finished. However the noise barrier was left in place when the embankment for the other two tracks was built, so there is now a four tracked line with a noise barrier in the middle.

 

[nanstallon]

The British elfansafety hysteria infantilises people here. Let people take responsibility for their own safety.

 

[izvor]

Wandering across railway tracks, along railway tracks, through tunnels and over bridges - even quite long bridges over rivers. All increasingly commonplace the further east you go in Europe, nobody bats an eyelid except the train drivers who need great vigilance and use of the horn. On several occasions I've found the best way of finding a station is to walk along the line, as without signposts it is not always obvious where it is from adjacent streets.

What's the situation in France? I've been on fenced and unfenced railways there. I seem to remember the LGVs were fenced mainly to avoid collisions with wild animals rather than homo stupidus.

 

[philg999]

There’s quite a lot of unfenced track in the Netherlands as well in rural areas. When you hit a town they usually surround the tracks with noise barriers but in the open countryside there’s often nothing.

 

[stuu]

Makes you appreciate Britain's health and safety culture.

The Germans love a bit of fencing though. When I did Paris - Strasbourg and then Offenburg - Cologne last month the contrast between no fence and fence was stark. What's even more interesting is that in Germany they tend to erect a fence in the middle of a four-track formation - the Offenburg - Rastatt section being one example, and also the soon to be completed Dresdnerbahn inside Berlin.

Generally those are sound barriers, rather than fences. Even the new high speed lines aren't fenced in the countryside in Germany

 

[nwales58]

Even the new high speed lines aren't fenced in the countryside in Germany

There was a philosophical difference between germany and elsewhere on HSLs. In Germany, if livestock got onto the alignment it should be free to escape was the thinking if I remember rightly.

Whether that changed after the Landsrückentunnel sheepageddon derailment I don’t know.

 

[Gordon]

What's the situation in France? I've been on fenced and unfenced railways there. I seem to remember the LGVs were fenced mainly to avoid collisions with wild animals rather than homo stupidus.

lineside fencing (ie all the way along all lines) British style never existed in France pre TGV. LGVs are fenced simply because of the much higher speed of the passing trains.

On all traditional lines, there was walling or concrete fencing in urban areas from day one, plus at level crossings there has always been fencing (usually one of the classic decorative concrete fencing types but sometimes wire type) around the immediate vicinity of level crossings but not beyond, for example here is a pic I took at St Rambert en Bugey (01) in the mid 1990s

 

[Cloud Strife]

Does anyone know if Poland sees more issues than the UK due to a lack of such fencing?

Generally the issues here are caused by idiots at level crossings, rather than the line itself. There are two lines near my house, and nothing has happened in the nearly 10 years that I've lived here with people on the line, even though neither of them are fenced. I can't think of any recent incidents in Poland where someone's been hit by a train unintentionally, although there have been plenty of issues at level crossings with morons in vehicles.

To be honest, going back to the UK is quite a shock in terms of how lines are fenced everywhere. It's just not the done thing here, and plenty of unofficial paths that go over train lines exist. There are some fences near/next to stations, but as you can see from my local line below, huge swathes of track are simply unfenced.



Even inner city lines tend to be unfenced, although this is changing a bit with higher speed lines.

even quite long bridges over rivers

Yup, happens a lot at a bridge near me, although this is a consequence of the fact that there simply isn't any other crossing of the river for a considerable distance in either direction. There is a walkway, and it's perfectly safe to walk across the bridge, although PKP PLK seem to go through phases of banning it and then allowing it again.

The British elfansafety hysteria infantilises people here. Let people take responsibility for their own safety.

On the other hand, the UK has far less problems with idiots at level crossings than Poland does.

 

[Amalie]

There’s quite a lot of unfenced track in the Netherlands as well in rural areas. When you hit a town they usually surround the tracks with noise barriers but in the open countryside there’s often nothing.

I find that the Netherlands uses a lot of “psychological” fences such as a ditch in between with a small stream of water, a canal, or some bushes. Those aren’t necessarily difficult to evade, but it’s clear that they’re not really meant to accessed. You won’t easily accidentally walk on to a track. You could debate that full fencing would be better however.

The parts in the countryside are often covered with private farm land, and I guess they leave safety up to the farmer’s common sense.

On the other end you have Switzerland however, which have a lot of open tracks, even some heavy rail tracks (so not just metros/trams) that go through cities.

I found it quite interesting that the last platform at Zürich HB was connected to the street without any fencing! It obviously wouldn’t be allowed, but you could theoretically step right out of a car and onto a train without touching the ground.

 

[Terry Tibbs]

I’d broadly agree with Cloud Strife. The news frequently has some unfortunate incidents at level crossings. There was one recently where a group of school children were ushered over the line once the barriers came down. When I use the local trains in particular on the rural lines it’s not uncommon to see people appear walking along the line to get to stations. I have often remarked to my wife and her family how much more risk averse the UK is with almost ‘prison style’ 6ft fencing appearing not only alongside railway lines but around schools, hospitals and other buildings. I certainly think that the Poles have a far more pragmatic approach to risk (level crossings excepted for some reason). I don’t remember reading about or being told about anyone being involved in a serious accident due to trespassing on the railway either and I have been in Poland a long while. I have been on the train a couple of times when we have smacked deer though which maybe you could argue wouldn’t get onto the line had fencing existed.

 

[DanielB]

I find that the Netherlands uses a lot of “psychological” fences such as a ditch in between with a small stream of water, a canal, or some bushes. Those aren’t necessarily difficult to evade, but it’s clear that they’re not really meant to accessed. You won’t easily accidentally walk on to a track. You could debate that full fencing would be better however.

Though there are also lines which have a fence at the top of the embankment.
Along some lines you'd also find a door in the fence for access by maintenance staff just a few meters away from a level crossing, which looks a bit funny.

 

[ThirteenArches]

Fencing of tracks by the railway company has been statutary in the UK since at least the Liverpool and Manchester, and exceptions - some light railways and tramways - were accompanied by strict limitations on speed etc. What other polities did was entirely up to their legal systems. And I see the usual whinge about health and safety, utterly irrelevant in this case. It's really pretty obvious and a good thing that Don't Care should be made to care, before other people wish somebody had cared.

 

[RailWonderer]

Fencing of tracks by the railway company has been statutary in the UK since at least the Liverpool and Manchester, and exceptions - some light railways and tramways - were accompanied by strict limitations on speed etc. What other polities did was entirely up to their legal systems. And I see the usual whinge about health and safety, utterly irrelevant in this case. It's really pretty obvious and a good thing that Don't Care should be made to care, before other people wish somebody had cared.

British health and safety is on the extreme side. I understand fencing near level crossings and fencing where the frequencies and speeds of services are higher but there is a lot of unnecessary fencing in the UK compared to Europe. That said I don't see the point in whinging because you won't ever get a law to loosen the requirement for fencing since you'll have pressure groups saying you'll be responsible for deaths if you do that.

European attitudes are more about personal responsibility and trust in human sensibility, British attitudes are about doing every single thing possible to reduce death, no matter at what cost and convenience and assuming some people have no faculties.

 

[dutchflyer]

Perhaps has also to do with the extent of 3d rail on what once was southern region/BR? Obviously then risks are a lot higher as along rails wiuth the old steam trains chugging along.

 

[Trainbike46]

That fence in the middle might be an easy way to enable taking two tracks out of service for works whilst keeping the other two in use, eliminating the need for temporary fencing.

Similar but different: in the Netherlands a full height noise barrier was erected at one side of the Utrecht - Vleuten railway when the first half of the new embankment was finished. However the noise barrier was left in place when the embankment for the other two tracks was built, so there is now a four tracked line with a noise barrier in the middle.

The Netherlands does have flair for building noise barriers in odd locations, like how there are noise barriers between the betuweroute and the A15 motorway, with nothing but open countryside nearby

There’s quite a lot of unfenced track in the Netherlands as well in rural areas. When you hit a town they usually surround the tracks with noise barriers but in the open countryside there’s often nothing.

Most "unfenced" track is in fact blocked off though, usually with canals/ deep drainage ditches. I'd say those are likely more effective than fences, even though it is possible to get across them, it is similarly possible to get across fences.

There is often sections of fence around places where access would be possible, like at level crossings.

 

[Sorcerer]

I think there is a balance to be found between Britain's arguably overzealous approach to railway safety, and the European attitude of no fences because common sense dictates you don't trespass on the railway. I'm fine with safety fences in place for protection of people and wildlife, but at a certain point you can't really make excuses for a driver who disregards the warning lights at a level crossing or climbs a fence with a clear unambiguous warning sign.

 

[izvor]

I don’t remember reading about or being told about anyone being involved in a serious accident due to trespassing on the railway either and I have been in Poland a long while. I have been on the train a couple of times when we have smacked deer though which maybe you could argue wouldn’t get onto the line had fencing existed.

Been on a train at least 2, maybe 3, times in recent years that has struck deer, on one of my local lines (Redhill-Tonbridge). Blood, damage, delay. I do a lot of walking in the area and it is clear that many of the numerous foot crossings would present no obstacle to an agile deer.

Times have changed in the UK. 50 years ago I would cycle with my school mates to a bridge or tunnel and watch the trains, mess about on the line, put pennies on the rails etc. On one sunny Sunday (when trains were running) we counted well over 20 other people doing likewise, including adults with kids, a group of teenagers walking right through the tunnel, and a gang of Hell's Angels who parked their bikes and walked down the line, with their girls, and disappeared into one of the old platelayer's huts. I wonder what they were doing?

Of course it was "fenced" but then just post-and-wire to fulfil the legal requirement, no obstacle at all. Now it's security fenced, some is 3rd rail electric, and any hint of trespass results in standstill, current off (if there is one) and mega delays, with passengers muttering "just run the b*gg*rs over". Ironically on one occasion the trespassers were clearly East Europeans wondering what all the fuss was about!

Whatever its drawbacks, I do relish the relative freedom to roam in continental Europe compared to fenced-in Britain.

Edit: Thanks @Gordon for the clarification re-France. Nice picture!

 

[in_luzern]

A bit off topic maybe, but I was on a walking holiday in the north of England last month, and on two occasions had to cross a double-track railway on "pedestrians only" level crossings - this was near Greenhead in Northumberland. At both crossings there was a red and green light system, but no barriers.

At one of the crossings, a notice instructed people not to cross if the lights weren't working. At the other one though, the notice said something like "If no light is showing, look carefully and cross quickly". Given the UK health and safety culture, I was surprised by that.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The USA is in a whole new level of railways without fencing as per attached photo taken right outside my office.

 

[DelW]

The USA is in a whole new level of railways without fencing as per attached photo taken right outside my office.

Not to mention a few locations where full size freights run right through the middle of town ...

(Screenshot of train in La Grange Ky, from Virtual Railfan live camera)

 

[JKF]

Railways in the US are very long, the amount of fencing needed would be absurd. That’s probably a factor in why they don’t have it, whereas the UK is more densely populated and almost all land owned/occupied (little true wilderness) so always someone’s land needing enclosing.

Portugal has some lines completely unfenced, including fast mainlines. Lots of foot crossings, especially at stations. Where level crossing have been closed (to improve line speed) they’re often kept open for pedestrians, the thinking is that pedestrians won’t be a risk to a train, but a car would be (so not really a concern for the pedestrian). The impression I have is that there are more level crossings probably because the lines were built quite cheaply, and when I’ve been over there I’ve noticed crossing incidents and PHBT seem to have been reported more often than in the UK - just anecdotally.

I don’t think the UK safety culture and fencing is a bad thing at all, a girl from my secondary school was killed on the line when on holiday in the south east, I think she followed an animal onto the line and was electrocuted. I can’t recall the exact details of how she got on the line but it made the news at the time.

I’m aware there were other cases where fences had been vandalised or gates left open and young children ended up on the tracks.
You don’t really see the damaged fencing so much these days, and most of it is good quality palisade, sometimes annoying if you want to take photos (I sometimes lean my bike against it and climb up on the frame)

 

[jumble]

Just had a very enjoyable holiday in Germany and Poland. I was quite surprised that in Poland especially there seemed to be a lack of any safety fencing around the railway lines even in very urban areas. In somecases the line, including Overhead Cables, ran directly adjacent to the road/pavement with no physical barriers in between at all. A stark contrast then with the barriers put in place in the UK adjacent to.public accessible areas.

It made me wonder about accident or incident rates. Does anyone know if Poland sees more issues than the UK due to a lack of such fencing? Or maybe less incidents because people just know to keep off the tracks?

Slightly OT as it is California
We have been somewhere similar and it is not a very comfortable feeling having a double decker train twice the size of a UK train passing at speed with no fence trying to blow one into the Pacific ocean

Amid crumbling cliffs, Orange County considers moving its famously scenic rail line inland

Landslides in Orange County continue to disrupt the coastal rail line that carries Amtrak's Pacific Surfliner. Is it time to trade stunning views for a reliable route?

www.latimes.com

 

[RailWonderer]

Not to mention a few locations where full size freights run right through the middle of town ...
View attachment 187847
(Screenshot of train in La Grange Ky, from Virtual Railfan live camera)

There are a lot of street running heavy railways around the world, Helsingor in Denmark a personal favourite, where I'll be photographing it very soon. I was going to start a thread on this topic but the UK has very few owing to 19th century laws requiring fencing according to sourced Wikipedia

Street running train - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Street running railways have been much rarer in the United Kingdom than elsewhere. This is due to 19th-century laws requiring railways to be enclosed by fences, which had the consequence that railways could not be built along existing roads and had to use their own rights of way. In cases where street running was unavoidable, the roads were often legally treated as level crossings with trains and road vehicles not permitted to use them at the same time

 

[notverydeep]

On this issue - the UK is very much the odd one out on a worldwide basis. Continuous fencing of railways is essentially unique to the UK. Nowhere else, where railways form a major part of the transport network does this, not in Europe, not in North America, not in Russia, China or India. In many countries local walking routes following railway rights of way are common (plus motorcycles as well). Of course (as some of the other posts note) some railways outside of the UK are fenced, especially Metro Systems and High Speed lines or where there is ground level electrification; some countries do more than others. Plenty of countries that have a reputation for high level of concern for safety generally do not have continuous fencing of their rail system; it would be interesting to see a comparison of casualty numbers.

Of course even the UK does not fence most of the 'rights of way' used for moderate / high speed travel and pedestrians share the formation of these rights of way in many cases: roads. People can walk along or cross the majority of roads where they choose. From an early age, most are taught how to protect themselves from the hazards - by learning the 'green cross code'. I would expect that the formal and informal education systems of most other countries simply apply this logic to avoiding the hazards associated with railways. It might even make them less attractive to some sections of the population, with no 'illicit thrill' of accessing an 'out of bounds' location.

 

[Gloster]

I think that at least a part of the reason for fencing in the UK was landowners insisting that lines be fenced off to prevent animals wandering on to the track and being killed. Getting Parliament to pass legislation requiring lineside fencing puts the onus and the cost on the railway. For the railway it also made it easier to show the limits of the area in which its writ ran. This may well be bound up in the types of agriculture and landholding that existed before the railway arrived in different countries.

 

[RailWonderer]

I think that at least a part of the reason for fencing in the UK was landowners insisting that lines be fenced off to prevent animals wandering on to the track and being killed. Getting Parliament to pass legislation requiring lineside fencing puts the onus and the cost on the railway. For the railway it also made it easier to show the limits of the area in which its writ ran. This may well be bound up in the types of agriculture and landholding that existed before the railway arrived in different countries.

That's interesting because if we had no fencing law today and landowners started asking the government to pay to fence their cattle, they'd be laughed out of Whitehall surely. If farmers want to fence in their own cattle, why should government be paying for it, do they own the cattle? If the land is Crown Estate owned or possibly National Trust the case might be different but this is all hypothetical. I think the law came because the railway here was built before anywhere else and there were a lot of built up areas already by that time because of early industrialisation.