EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Mvann]

You mean this one

 

[edwin_m]

The verdict from the local elections seems to be that Tories are committed to leaving but aren't delivering it, and Labour isn't committed to anything. Neither position satisfies either leavers or remainers so voters are deserting both parties in large numbers. LibDems are picking up a lot of remainer votes but I suspect many of the Leavers are staying at home and planning to vote Brexit in three weeks.

 

[Karl]

You mean this one

That's the one! Thank you very much. She just about sums up my feelings too.

 

[NoMorePacers]

It’s satisfying watching the Tories get destroyed.

 

[Howardh]

It’s satisfying watching the Tories get destroyed.

If only there was an opposition.

 

[berneyarms]

Already posted - didn’t see it!

 

[Giugiaro]

Well, as much as I want to follow the situation to and after the EU elections, the government in Portugal as just started to collapse.

Let us see which General Elections come first: The Tory disaster or the Socialist disaster...

 

[cactustwirly]

It’s satisfying watching the Tories get destroyed.

Labour didn't do that well either

 

[NoMorePacers]

Labour didn't do that well either

a) The Tories did worse.
b) Why did you automatically assume that I support Labour?

 

[Struner]

a) The Tories did worse.
b) Why did you automatically assume that I support Labour?

did he?

 

[NoMorePacers]

did he?

"Labour didn't do that well either"

Maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill, but it does seem slightly targeted at a Labour supporter.

 

[Struner]

But your question was: Why did you automatically assume that I support Labour?
It's up to him now...

 

[bramling]

The verdict from the local elections seems to be that Tories are committed to leaving but aren't delivering it, and Labour isn't committed to anything. Neither position satisfies either leavers or remainers so voters are deserting both parties in large numbers. LibDems are picking up a lot of remainer votes but I suspect many of the Leavers are staying at home and planning to vote Brexit in three weeks.

I can only speak for my household. For the first time ever, we all spoiled our ballot papers. This was mainly due to dissatisfaction with the Conservatives and particularly May - a warning shot if you will, the final straw being the Williamson debacle.

However, we would have voted Conservative in a general election. We would have voted UKIP or Brexit party had that been on the ballot paper, which is what we’ll be doing in the Euro election.

It’s very hard to infer much from local elections, and as is often the case there seem to be a load of people voting Lib Dem simply because they’re not one of the other two. They’ve always done well being the party of protest. As with our household, it’s one thing voting in this way in local elections, but quite another in an election where a Corbyn/McDonnell/Abbott government is an actual possible reality.

 

[Struner]

So basically you cant be bothered with your council?

 

[bramling]

So basically you cant be bothered with your council?

Not exactly, just that firing a warning shot to May and the Conservatives is more important. I think enough is enough with May - she’s proved to be useless, and needs to go ASAP. Does *anyone* actually hold her in favourable regard? Having said that, awful though May is, there’s little obvious talent to replace her with, however that moment has to come and IMV it’s best just to get on with it. Not all the issues are down to her, but she’s such an awful communicator and influencer, and simply doesn’t have any idea as to why she actually wants to be PM, beyond “I’m TM and I think I’m the best person”. Even Gordon Brown actually had some ideas about what he wanted to do.

I’d add that our household’s voting is not really about Brexit per se, but more about the general state of the two main parties, in the case of the Conservatives a terrible leader, complete lack of domestic agenda, lurching from crisis to crisis, and partly about the handling of Brexit.

 

[Struner]

Who wouldn't be fed up with the Lino. But all the same, these elections were about your local potholes.

 

[anme]

The big winner in the election is the pro-remain party, and the lesson May and Corbyn learn from this is that they need to get on with Brexit.

This is going to end badly for them.

 

[Doppelganger]

Not exactly, just that firing a warning shot to May and the Conservatives is more important.

Which many would say is where a pro-Brexit stance came from. Plenty of disenfranchised people wanted to be heard, so you are coming from a similar angle, interesting...

 

[Howardh]

The big winner in the election is the pro-remain party, and the lesson May and Corbyn learn from this is that they need to get on with Brexit.

The two remain parties - the Greens are on the move and could be attractive to remainers who don't want to vote Libdem; whethe that would translate to any more seats than their current one in a general election remains to be seen.
I note that the share of the vote would give an estimated 25MP's to the Libdems - rather disappointing considering how well the night had gone, but had London and Scotland voted - partucularly London - that projection could be a lot higher.
I did say at the time that 16.4m (remain) is a lot of votes to ignore, and if they did they would get kick-back at election time.

 

[bramling]

Which many would say is where a pro-Brexit stance came from. Plenty of disenfranchised people wanted to be heard, so you are coming from a similar angle, interesting...

I wouldn’t make that connection. My main issue at the moment is wanting to get a functional government back. That’s not the same as being disenfranchised.

I think pretty much everyone agrees that the state of both parties at present is dire.

 

[bramling]

The two remain parties - the Greens are on the move and could be attractive to remainers who don't want to vote Libdem; whethe that would translate to any more seats than their current one in a general election remains to be seen.
I note that the share of the vote would give an estimated 25MP's to the Libdems - rather disappointing considering how well the night had gone, but had London and Scotland voted - partucularly London - that projection could be a lot higher.
I did say at the time that 16.4m (remain) is a lot of votes to ignore, and if they did they would get kick-back at election time.

I think this is all a bit more complex than 16.4m remain voters = bounce for Lib Dem and Green. There’s many other factors at play too - not least the two main parties being in a dire state, and in the case of Labour that was before Brexit, remember the failed coup against Corbyn’s leadership a few years ago for example. Likewise many people remain deeply suspicious of a potential Corbyn government, which muddies the waters for people looking to vote against the incumbent.

The LDs have also in the past always done quite well in local government, so perhaps this is simply a rebalancing back to the previous equilibrium.

 

[takno]

I think this is all a bit more complex than 16.4m remain voters = bounce for Lib Dem and Green. There’s many other factors at play too - not least the two main parties being in a dire state, and in the case of Labour that was before Brexit, remember the failed coup against Corbyn’s leadership a few years ago for example. Likewise many people remain deeply suspicious of a potential Corbyn government, which muddies the waters for people looking to vote against the incumbent.

The LDs have also in the past always done quite well in local government, so perhaps this is simply a rebalancing back to the previous equilibrium.

The failed "coup", or perfectly legitimate vote amongst MPs to have a properly-constituted leadership election as it would be more accurately described, was primarily in response to Corby's rather obvious pro-Brexit position. I don't think it's fair to suggest it predates it

 

[anme]

I think this is all a bit more complex than 16.4m remain voters = bounce for Lib Dem and Green. There’s many other factors at play too - not least the two main parties being in a dire state, and in the case of Labour that was before Brexit, remember the failed coup against Corbyn’s leadership a few years ago for example. Likewise many people remain deeply suspicious of a potential Corbyn government, which muddies the waters for people looking to vote against the incumbent.

The LDs have also in the past always done quite well in local government, so perhaps this is simply a rebalancing back to the previous equilibrium.

These attempts by the establishment to dismiss the success of an unequivocally pro-remain party as "not about brexit" are pretty funny. When the brexit party do well in a few weeks time, should we conclude that's just because people like Nigel Farage's tie?

 

[bramling]

These attempts by the establishment to dismiss the success of an unequivocally pro-remain party as "not about brexit" are pretty funny. When the brexit party do well in a few weeks time, should we conclude that's just because people like Nigel Farage's tie?

Liberal Democrat voting has always been something of an enigma.

A friend of mine voted Liberal Democrat on Thursday, not because of Brexit but simply because he can’t stand both May and Corbyn.

Some years ago I happened to come across some Liberal Democrat campaigning in Torquay, which was then one of their strongholds. The gist of their campaigning was along the lines of “vote for us as we’re not the other two, and our orange colour matches sunny Torbay”.

 

[anme]

Liberal Democrat voting has always been something of an enigma.

A friend of mine voted Liberal Democrat on Thursday, not because of Brexit but simply because he can’t stand both May and Corbyn.

Some years ago I happened to come across some Liberal Democrat campaigning in Torquay, which was then one of their strongholds. The gist of their campaigning was along the lines of “vote for us as we’re not the other two, and our orange colour matches sunny Torbay”.

And it continues. A big vote for a remain party is a big vote for a remain party, however much the establishment are desperate to tell you it isn't.

 

[anme]

I’d add that our household’s voting is not really about Brexit per se, but more about the general state of the two main parties, in the case of the Conservatives a terrible leader, complete lack of domestic agenda, lurching from crisis to crisis, and partly about the handling of Brexit.

What do you think should be done about brexit? Should MPs vote for May's deal? If not, then what?

 

[EM2]

My main issue at the moment is wanting to get a functional government back.

How does spoiling your ballot in the local elections help achieve that?

 

[radamfi]

Local elections in England are conducted under FPTP and are therefore not democratic.

 

[Esker-pades]

Local elections in England are conducted under FPTP and are therefore not democratic.

How have you worked that one out?

 

[edwin_m]

Local elections in England are conducted under FPTP and are therefore not democratic.

How have you worked that one out?

They may be more democratic than in totalitarian states, but like parliamentary elections they can deliver results that are unrepresentative of people's views and leave a lot of people feeling disenfranchised. Most people live in "safe" seats for one party or another so their vote really doesn't count and there is no reason for the parties to pay any attention to their views - hence they can often win (or think they will) by playing to their own bases as both Labour and Conservatives are doing at present.

In my view some kind of proportional system would be very helpful in addressing the root causes of the divisions in British society, which have resulted in the Brexit mess amongst other things.