EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[EM2]

The thing about staying in the EU is they generally fund projects in less well off areas and as such hep support a lot of places that really need the money, when we leave these places will suddenly have their funding cut off as do you really think that the conservatives care about the poorer areas? The EU does.

The argument seems to be that if the UK doesn't send that money to the EU, then it will be free to invest that money in whatever areas it sees fit. The fact that it never has in the past seems to have escaped a lot of people's attention.

 

[404250]

Why don't we vote for a government who will invest more in the areas that need it, and not one focused on the City of London? A country like ours shouldn't need the EU to help develop areas that are in decline. Why hasn't the EU done anything about the gig economy. The UK should write its own employment laws on top of the EU ones to help those struggling in this area of employed poverty.

 

[404250]

It's not a good reflection on our society to say that we need the EU to help our needy - we should be doing this ourselves and if we aren't then voting in a government that will.

 

[NoMorePacers]

Would those be chlorinated turkeys?

Probably.

It's not a good reflection on our society to say that we need the EU to help our needy - we should be doing this ourselves and if we aren't then voting in a government that will.

But who is there to vote in who will do that?

 

[EM2]

It's not a good reflection on our society to say that we need the EU to help our needy - we should be doing this ourselves and if we aren't then voting in a government that will.

New Labour went a long way to doing that, but then blotted their copy book with Iraq and didn't defend themselves well against accusations during the financial crash that it was their fault.

 

[AM9]

Up to a point, remainers are on average more affluent so leavers will on average suffer worse from the effects of Brexit.

But we the people who ran the Leave campaign are some of the most affluent and privileged of all, and will suffer very little from what they have caused.

I've pointed both of those out upthread:
1) The leavers were sold the lie that they should vote leave to hit the elite that 'sucked up to the EU'. So many areas, by their own electorate's voting actions, will create their own post-industrial economically depressed communities as the multinationals rid themselves of this misguided country.
2) The lead extremists calling the tune for leavers are virtually all wealthy speculators, and in some cases, have been found guilty of electoral fraud to help create a chaotic environment that speculators need to prosper in, (at the expense of (mainly) the honest less well-off). So they have managed to get just enough votes to force the country into the wild-west economy. It does seem that they have overcooked the leaving campaign so are now getting a bit desperate that they may lose all.

 

[Struner]

What's the issue? The English Electric CSVT's are incredibly reliable, above many other engines powering locos and units in Portugal. If it isn't related to the British engineering of those engines, the only thing keeping that reliability record is the Portuguese maintenance done on the EE's. But maintenance can't keep 50 year old engines running this well!

Sorry for the misunderstanding, by motors I meant motorcars.

 

[nidave]

Why don't we vote for a government who will invest more in the areas that need it, and not one focused on the City of London? A country like ours shouldn't need the EU to help develop areas that are in decline. Why hasn't the EU done anything about the gig economy. The UK should write its own employment laws on top of the EU ones to help those struggling in this area of employed poverty.

Why not have both. The benefits and the money from the eu in grants and a government which invests in services and areas. It's not an either or situation.

 

[furnessvale]

Posted by Yorkie. (Sorry, my editing seems to have gone awry).

@Gooner18 I do not understand how you can claim there is one single definition of "leave" that all who voted leave were/are united on, as clearly that is not the case!

Exactly the same as remain. There is no single definition of what remain is.

Some voted remain in the expectation the UK could turn the supertanker around and return to a more "common market" approach. At the other end of the spectrum others voted remain in the expectation we will all be absorbed into a "United States of Europe".

 

[furnessvale]

Why not have both. The benefits and the money from the eu in grants and a government which invests in services and areas. It's not an either or situation.

As has been pointed out many, many times, all the money we receive from the EU was sent from the UK to them in the first place. Only after the EU has taken a huge slice for use elsewhere, is some of the money returned to the UK to be used as the EU sees fit.

 

[nidave]

As has been pointed out many, many times, all the money we receive from the EU was sent from the UK to them in the first place. Only after the EU has taken a huge slice for use elsewhere, is some of the money returned to the UK to be used as the EU sees fit.

But your argument is sprious. Not giving the money to the eu does not mean it will be spent in the UK.

I seem to recall "£350million a week for the nhs" was mentioned a few times..

 

[nidave]

It's all going well... Soon there will be no one left.

Travel advisory for Canadians in Britain warns of ’acts of violence’ linked to Brexit

https://torontosun.com/news/nationa...d7-38d6e6ed5bc8/amp?__twitter_impression=true

 

[Gooner18]

Why don't we vote for a government who will invest more in the areas that need it, and not one focused on the City of London? A country like ours shouldn't need the EU to help develop areas that are in decline. Why hasn't the EU done anything about the gig economy. The UK should write its own employment laws on top of the EU ones to help those struggling in this area of employed poverty.

Problem is the city of London produces a lot of the counties GDP , unfortunately successive governments ( both labour and conservatives) have shifted our economy more and more away from manufacturing which was/is prominently done in the north , to the services sector which the City of London is a world power house in , always has been and will always be ( city of London not to be confused with London, two completely different beasts ).
I completely agree something needs to be done about this , how I don’t know , it will be a long road trying to rebalance it where our manufacturing has been declining for years and years , also not helped by most of this generation don’t want to learn a trade / get their hands dirty etc , it’s all I want it now culture

 

[Gooner18]

It's all going well... Soon there will be no one left.


https://torontosun.com/news/nationa...d7-38d6e6ed5bc8/amp?__twitter_impression=true

That is just advising people to stay clear of certain areas , or again are you suggesting something?

 

[404250]

I seem to recall "£350million a week for the nhs" was mentioned a few times.

This figure is accepted as wrong, but if we leave can we not demand that the NHS gets some extra cash every week from the pot not going to the EU?

 

[404250]

It's all going well... Soon there will be no one left.


https://torontosun.com/news/nationa...d7-38d6e6ed5bc8/amp?__twitter_impression=true

I wouldn't take any notice of this. OTT. Should we avoid the whole of France as there are yellow vest protests every weekend in every region? Of course not - it's still a very safe country.

 

[ainsworth74]

also not helped by most of this generation don’t want to learn a trade / get their hands dirty etc

Is that their fault or the fault of their parents/teachers/politicians who told them to go to Uni and get a degree rather than do something vocational?

 

[dgl]

Problem is the city of London produces a lot of the counties GDP , unfortunately successive governments ( both labour and conservatives) have shifted our economy more and more away from manufacturing which was/is prominently done in the north , to the services sector which the City of London is a world power house in , always has been and will always be ( city of London not to be confused with London, two completely different beasts ).
I completely agree something needs to be done about this , how I don’t know , it will be a long road trying to rebalance it where our manufacturing has been declining for years and years , also not helped by most of this generation don’t want to learn a trade / get their hands dirty etc , it’s all I want it now culture

Part of the reason cor shifting away from manufacturing was that we realised that it was beneficial to use to buy certain products either where they were cheaper to produce (like China) or for the bigger ticket items (trains, cars, machinery Etc.) where they were built to a much higher standard and didn't break down all the time.
Yes we can make quality items but so can anywhere else given the right quality controls and unlike other countries we don't have either cost or perceived quality on our side so need all the help we can get to keep manufacturing in Britain.
Now whilst we do still make a lot of stuff and we do have new train builder/assemblers coming to Britain but once all our new trains are built will the likes of CAF, Siemens, Hitachi Etc. stay when it will be easier for the most part to build where customs/import taxes are not a problem.

 

[Esker-pades]

Exactly the same as remain. There is no single definition of what remain is.

Some voted remain in the expectation the UK could turn the supertanker around and return to a more "common market" approach. At the other end of the spectrum others voted remain in the expectation we will all be absorbed into a "United States of Europe".

That's more of an argument to say that putting a binary choice to the public with multiple choices on both sides was a bad idea. Simply, "they were both as bad as each other so hey ho" is not good enough for a change of this magnitude.

 

[edwin_m]

Exactly the same as remain. There is no single definition of what remain is.

Some voted remain in the expectation the UK could turn the supertanker around and return to a more "common market" approach. At the other end of the spectrum others voted remain in the expectation we will all be absorbed into a "United States of Europe".

Nevertheless, Remain was a much clearer choice than Leave. Remain was to continue with the EU as was and to have an input on future changes. Leave was a whole squadron of unicorns and depended very much on who was talking.

As has been pointed out many, many times, all the money we receive from the EU was sent from the UK to them in the first place. Only after the EU has taken a huge slice for use elsewhere, is some of the money returned to the UK to be used as the EU sees fit.

This is true as have been a net contributor to the EU, helping to develop less prosperous parts of Europe and thereby reduce inequality. However, the point made by others is that if we hadn't sent that money to the EU it's unlikely a Tory government would have spent it on regional development.

This figure is accepted as wrong, but if we leave can we not demand that the NHS gets some extra cash every week from the pot not going to the EU?

We can, but leaving the EU is almost certainly going to damage the economy and most neutral experts (I know) consider the resulting loss of taxes coming in will be much more than the amount currently sent to the EU. So to provide more for the NHS the government will either need to find ways of increasing taxes or reduce spending elsewhere. After nine years of austerity most of the easy spending cuts have been done already.

The NHS will also need more money to do the same amount of work, because the proposed criteria for immigration and the UK's perceived hostility to immigrants will largely stop the flow of ready-trained staff from the EU. Training our own instead is probably a good thing long term but it adds to the immediate financial problems.

 

[Gooner18]

Is that their fault or the fault of their parents/teachers/politicians who told them to go to Uni and get a degree rather than do something vocational?

Quite possibly that is one of the main reasons

 

[Howardh]

Is that their fault or the fault of their parents/teachers/politicians who told them to go to Uni and get a degree rather than do something vocational?

Could go back to the 70's when the Tech/High/Grammar schools were beginning to be eradicated so those not totally academically gifted were denied the opportunity to "learn a trade" at school, and went to a comprehensive instead. I went to Grammar and if I hadn't got my *O* levels I had nothing to fall back on. Luckily I scraped through.

 

[Bantamzen]

That is just advising people to stay clear of certain areas , or again are you suggesting something?

The very fact that this issue is causing these kind of advisory messages from other governments is shocking. What the hell is this country coming to & how far are some prepared to go for this vanity project?

 

[Gooner18]

The very fact that this issue is causing these kind of advisory messages from other governments is shocking. What the hell is this country coming to & how far are some prepared to go for this vanity project?

I presume in that statement you’re talking both remain and leave protests ?

 

[Bantamzen]

I presume in that statement you’re talking both remain and leave protests ?

I'm talking about anyone who is helping to turn this country into a banana republic by threatening violence because they can't have their exact way. Brexit has turned a lot of people a little more nasty, insular and ignorent.

 

[Gooner18]

I'm talking about anyone who is helping to turn this country into a banana republic by threatening violence because they can't have their exact way. Brexit has turned a lot of people a little more nasty, insular and ignorent.

Agreed , on both sides

 

[Doppelganger]

Agreed , on both sides

Only the insular and ignorant thing doesn't really work with remainers does it?

 

[Esker-pades]

Only the insular and ignorant thing doesn't really work with remainers does it?

As much as I dislike admitting it, it really does.

 

[Gooner18]

Only the insular and ignorant thing doesn't really work with remainers does it?

Anyone who believes that is deluded , it’s as bad on both sides

 

[Gooner18]

As much as I dislike admitting it, it really does.

Fully agree