EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Jonny]

As a grown adult, you should still recognise that your behaviour sets an example to children who see you, and you should still act accordingly. Waiting for 30 seconds at a pedestrian crossing isn't asking the earth.

I'm not a parent. If it's safe to proceed, and there are no laws involved, why wait?

 

[Bantamzen]

I have never got the point of air travel for pure leisure purposes... at least not in economy class. In fact I prefer surface travel, ideally rail, for inter-regional and/or journeys. That plus geography means that I rarely bother to leave the UK; quite frankly before any laws have come into play I have already decided that it's not worth the bother.

How and when you travel is entirely your own choice. Personally I don't mind flying economy, it makes travelling more economical and allows those of us who enjoy travelling more options & opportunities.

 

[adrock1976]

Something that I stumbled upon yesterday on Yahoo News via Sky:
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/uri-geller-tells-pm-am-going-stop-brexit-220200155.html

Illusionist Uri Geller has vowed to "telepathically" stop Brexit in an open letter addressed to Theresa May.

The TV personality said he "admired" the prime minister but felt "physically and very strongly" that most Britons were against the UK's withdrawal from the EU.

He wrote: "I feel psychically and very strongly that most British people do not want Brexit.

"I love you very much but I will not allow you to lead Britain into Brexit.

"As much as I admire you, I will stop you telepathically from doing this - and believe me I am capable of executing it."

Geller appealed to Mrs May to stop the Brexit process before he takes a "drastic course of action".

He also claimed that his power has been "validated" by the CIA, MI5 and Israel's intelligence agency Mossad.

Geller, whose current home is in Israel, used to live in the prime minister's Maidenhead constituency.

He added in his letter that he had known Mrs May for 21 years and she had previously visited his home.

He said: "Three years before you became prime minister, I predicted your victory when I showed you Winston Churchill's spoon on my Cadillac, which I asked you to touch."

It appears his psychic meddling has not stopped there, as he claimed he is using the power of his mind to ensure that "Jeremy Corbyn never gets the keys to Number 10 Downing Street".

The Israeli-British illusionist is best known for his trademark spoon-bending trick and was popular in the 80s for his apparent psychic powers and telepathy skills.

Mrs May is expected to table a third vote on her Brexit deal next week, but there are fears it will once again be rejected by MPs.

I had a slight snigger to myself when I saw the above article, as I can remember for both the European Championship in 1996 and the World Cup in 1998, Geller was doing his rituals of getting England to win the Euro 96 and for Scotland to win against Brazil at the World Cup in the opening match.

Needless to say, his "magic" failed, and basing it on probability, he will fail to stop Brexit as well (or will step into the limelight so as to take the credit should if Brexit is stopped).

My own view on Geller is that he is a fraud and a charlatan (which he got found out a long time ago), and if you add November and Echo to his first name, that is what he talks a lot of.

 

[nlogax]

I have never got the point of air travel for pure leisure purposes... at least not in economy class. In fact I prefer surface travel, ideally rail, for inter-regional and/or journeys.

Those millions of RyanAir, Easyjet, FlyBE, Jet2 and Norwegian Air passengers wanting to get to x or y destination as quickly and as inexpensively as possible are all doing it wrong. Right, I understand.

That plus geography means that I rarely bother to leave the UK; quite frankly before any laws have come into play I have already decided that it's not worth the bother.

Good for you. Many if not most of us here prefer to travel.

 

[Puffing Devil]

It's not just about me, it's about everyone else having cheaper clothes. Let me slip you a little secret from academic economics - the gains from protecting jobs are always less than the cost savings. Also, what about someone who is optimally employed but can only afford a £2 T-shirt?

PS If they made a product that was better then the cheap t-shirt could ever be, and people were willing to pay a premium for it, then their job would be safe.

Nice use of Google for a quick quote. Perhaps you'd like to give me the full reference and then discuss the implications for the displaced workers in the protectionist country and the poorer terms and conditions for the workers in the exporting countries? It isn't always about cost.

 

[radamfi]

I have never got the point of air travel for pure leisure purposes... at least not in economy class. In fact I prefer surface travel, ideally rail, for inter-regional and/or journeys. That plus geography means that I rarely bother to leave the UK; quite frankly before any laws have come into play I have already decided that it's not worth the bother.

If you are interested in train travel then you are missing out on a lot if you avoid mainland Europe.

 

[Giugiaro]

means that I rarely bother to leave the UK; quite frankly before any laws have come into play I have already decided that it's not worth the bother.

It's because of that sort of attitude that our society is slowly turning backwards. Just because YOU specifically doesn't need or want to travel outside the country, are not a parent, and whatever doesn't mean that everyone else shares the same circumstances. You'd rather have other people be stripped of their rights just because you don't want to benefit from them? Do YOU know the implications that sort of thinking has? If you decided you don't want to vote on the next election, would YOU defend the end of elections because YOU decided it's not worth the bother?

You might just be trolling just to have some giggles and put the thread to work, but saying that others don't deserve the rights they have because YOU don't need them is crossing a very dangerous line!

 

[ComUtoR]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/229963

Petition : Leave the EU without a deal in March 2019.

547K and counting. Looks like the petition was created October last year ?

 

[Groningen]

There seems to be no third vote tomorrow according to Dutch media.

 

[Jonny]

There seems to be no third vote tomorrow according to Dutch media.

Confirmed in various parts of the UK media as well...

Parliament has yet to even agree on a non-binding alternative.

 

[mmh]

Completely off-topic of course, but when I started to look after mum and dad in their home (and took Power of Atourney) that means three adults, and the water bill (in2014) was based on the rates and came to £1040 annually. I made a calculation that even with heavy use we would be better metered (and watched in case of leaks) and changed to a meter, and United Utilities said if it was more expensive we could return to a ratable value.
Last years bill, with a meter, was £420 (accepting that dad passed away early) and with rates it would have been over £1100.

An option the people who live in the house after you won't have now.

 

[AM9]

An option the people who live in the house after you won't have now.

So what?

 

[dosxuk]

Parliament has yet to even agree on a non-binding alternative.

And have they've been allowed to debate any alternatives?

 

[Jonny]

And have they've been allowed to debate any alternatives?

They will probably struggle even to agree to disagree!!!

 

[EM2]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-47696409
From Laura Kuenssberg:

Influential Brexiteers who attended talks at Chequers with the Prime Minister yesterday met again today.

The group, including Iain Duncan Smith, Steve Baker, Dominic Raab and Boris Johnson are understood to have had further discussions on whether to back the Prime Minister’s deal, including the option of her departure in return for votes.

It’s understood some involved want her to make a public commitment to set a timetable for departure because there is ‘such a problem of trust’.

The group, which some insiders have branded the ‘grand wizards’, are understood not to have reached any final conclusions and are involved in ongoing talks with Brexiteers and Number 10.

One of those present said: ‘There are no firm commitments - the jelly keeps getting nailed to the wall again, then you find it’s fallen on the floor’.

Note the phrase that I have boldened. Anyone like to hazard a guess as to which organisation is closely associated with the title 'grand wizard'?

 

[Jonny]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-47696409
From Laura Kuenssberg:

Note the phrase that I have boldened. Anyone like to hazard a guess as to which organisation is closely associated with the title 'grand wizard'?

Just by the snippet, it sounds like the term 'grand wizard' was used about them by a third party... not something that they have even tried to claim for themselves.

 

[EM2]

Just by the snippet, it sounds like the term 'grand wizard' was used about them by a third party... not something that they have even tried to claim for themselves.

Also from Laura Kuenssberg:

just catching up on timeline, for avoidance of doubt, couple of insiders told me using the nickname informally, no intended connection to anything else

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1110282686210412544

 

[bramling]

Completely off-topic of course, but when I started to look after mum and dad in their home (and took Power of Atourney) that means three adults, and the water bill (in2014) was based on the rates and came to £1040 annually. I made a calculation that even with heavy use we would be better metered (and watched in case of leaks) and changed to a meter, and United Utilities said if it was more expensive we could return to a ratable value.
Last years bill, with a meter, was £420 (accepting that dad passed away early) and with rates it would have been over £1100.

As it happens my bill is slightly cheaper, despite extensive use of the hose pipe over the summer and the household tending to prefer taking baths over showers. However I’d prefer to have had the choice rather than have it foisted upon me.

But cost of billing rather misses the point, which is that there’s concern about the integrity of supply of an essential resource, and the water companies themselves are attributing this to rising population. How many things must we lose just to keep a “right” which most people never use?

 

[nlogax]

Whether the UK leaves on April 12th, May 22nd or at some point in the 24th century once partisan politics has been outlawed and is punishable by particle beam cannon, there will be a public inquiry into this debacle. It'll make Leveson look like a brisk stroll in a tiny park.

 

[DarloRich]

Indicative votes will be held in Parliament on Wednesday after the government lost 329 v 302 on the Letwin/Grieve amendment in the House of Commons this evening. This is a big blow to May and takes some control of the process from her.

Options for indicative votes are expected to be:

1. No Deal ( if the Beckett amendment passes this will be removed)
2. Free Trade Agreement
3. PM Deal
4. PM Deal + customs union ( Could/might replace backstop)
5. PM deal + customs union + EEA ( remain in single market)
6. 2nd Referendum
7. Revoke article 50

There is, of course, a good chance there will be no majority for any of these options thus adding to the confusion!

A Minister ( Richard Harrington Minister for Business & Industry) has resigned so he could vote for the Letwin/Grieve amendment

 

[DarloRich]

two more minsters have resigned to support the amendment:

Alistair Burt - Minister of State for the Middle East and North Africa
Steve Brine - Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Public Health and Primary Care

Obviously junior ministers but they seem to have been May loyalists.

 

[DarloRich]

Beckett amendment defeated 311 v 314 therefore no guarantee of a parliamentary vote IF we are within 7 days of a no deal Brexit situation. However the PM has indicated this will happen in any event.

 

[mmh]

So what?

You might be against water metering on principle, and you might be able to afford not to have the saving you get.

Thinking of the generation after you. I thought remainers were all in favour of that?

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I heard that if a soft Brexit option is chosen an election will be called

 

[DarloRich]

I heard that if a soft Brexit option is chosen an election will be called

do you have a source for this?

 

[Jonny]

This is getting dangerous. Once backbench MPs are able to hijack the agenda, it would be the constitutional equivalent of a car with no brakes, at speed.

Beckett amendment defeated 311 v 314 therefore no guarantee of a parliamentary vote IF we are within 7 days of a no deal Brexit situation. However the PM has indicated this will happen in any event.

A shutdown would be more effective, and constitutionally safer.

 

[dosxuk]

This is getting dangerous. Once backbench MPs are able to hijack the agenda, it would be the constitutional equivalent of a car with no brakes, at speed.

A bunch of back benchers have been hijacking the agenda for years, they're the entire reason we've got to this position! You've heard of the ERG right? Rees-Mogg is quite happy to be sitting at the back trying to take control.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is getting dangerous. Once backbench MPs are able to hijack the agenda, it would be the constitutional equivalent of a car with no brakes, at speed.

Rubbish. Anything that goes on is protected by requiring a majority vote.

A shutdown would be more effective, and constitutionally safer.

These are exceptional times; a shutdown would mean a certain "no deal", which absolutely does not have a majority mandate.

 

[Busaholic]

A bunch of back benchers have been hijacking the agenda for years, they're the entire reason we've got to this position! You've heard of the ERG right? Rees-Mogg is quite happy to be sitting at the back trying to take control.

It could even be said that some who failed to make the back benches (Farage and co.) have been shaping the agenda for yonks.

 

[takno]

As it happens my bill is slightly cheaper, despite extensive use of the hose pipe over the summer and the household tending to prefer taking baths over showers. However I’d prefer to have had the choice rather than have it foisted upon me.

But cost of billing rather misses the point, which is that there’s concern about the integrity of supply of an essential resource, and the water companies themselves are attributing this to rising population. How many things must we lose just to keep a “right” which most people never use?

That would be the right to mindlessly waste water then? Water shortages are being caused by a combination of changing rainfall patterns, the fact that the whole population of the UK is migrating to London, and planning laws stopping us from kicking prople out of their homes to flood valleys like we used to. European migration isn't even a rounding error in the figures.