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EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

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Esker-pades

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I believe there is a large hot air storage area in Brussels and another one in Strasbourg that we must own 1/28th of. There is also a large underused airport in Spain.
So when I stopped being a member of a heritage railway, I should have asked for 1/1000th of their property (assuming that the railway had 1000 members)?

These things are EU property which are owned by the EU that member states have benefit of. If you are not a member state, you don't get to use it without permission.
 
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EM2

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I believe there is a large hot air storage area in Brussels and another one in Strasbourg that we must own 1/28th of. There is also a large underused airport in Spain.
Right...
So you're suggesting that all the EU projects that have been completed, using some of the money that the UK has paid in over the years, somehow we have a claim over?
That is obviously nonsense.
 

fowler9

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I believe there is a large hot air storage area in Brussels and another one in Strasbourg that we must own 1/28th of. There is also a large underused airport in Spain.
The hot air storage area in Brussels interacts with one in Westminster.
 

furnessvale

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Right...
So you're suggesting that all the EU projects that have been completed, using some of the money that the UK has paid in over the years, somehow we have a claim over?
That is obviously nonsense.
I fully expected that answer, but out of interest why is it nonsense? The EU is not a golf club,as often used as an analogy and perhaps the lawyers could make an arguable case.
 

Esker-pades

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I fully expected that answer, but out of interest why is it nonsense? The EU is not a golf club,as often used as an analogy and perhaps the lawyers could make an arguable case.
These things are EU property which are owned by the EU that member states have benefit of. If you are not a member state, you don't get to use it without permission. The EU Parliament buildings are for use by the EU, which currently includes us. Once/if we leave, we will no longer have that access.
 

EM2

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I fully expected that answer, but out of interest why is it nonsense? The EU is not a golf club,as often used as an analogy and perhaps the lawyers could make an arguable case.
Would member states that were not members at the time those 'assets' were built be able to use them, despite having made no contribution?
If you join a trade union, or benevolent society, or similar, you are able to avail of all the benefits of that membership as soon as you join. If you leave, you don't have any claim on any benefit that your contributions may have assisted in gaining.
For example, if during your membership, the trade union assisted another member in a claim for damages which they won, would you expect to claim a part of that?
 

furnessvale

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Would member states that were not members at the time those 'assets' were built be able to use them, despite having made no contribution?
If you join a trade union, or benevolent society, or similar, you are able to avail of all the benefits of that membership as soon as you join. If you leave, you don't have any claim on any benefit that your contributions may have assisted in gaining.
For example, if during your membership, the trade union assisted another member in a claim for damages which they won, would you expect to claim a part of that?
It is far too simplistic to compare the EU to such things. For example, there are many research projects that the UK have contributed to over the years. Has the UK now no rights to a share of the intellectual property?

Please don't give me the remainer "the UK started all this so we have no rights in the matter". Theresa May agreed a figure based on a complete deal. If that deal falls, for whatever reason, everything is off the table and the lawyers will have rich pickings for years to come.
 

EM2

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It is far too simplistic to compare the EU to such things. For example, there are many research projects that the UK have contributed to over the years. Has the UK now no rights to a share of the intellectual property?
No, we don't. Hence the issues over Galileo.
If that deal falls, for whatever reason, everything is off the table and the lawyers will have rich pickings for years to come.
So pay our dues, and the problem goes away.
 

JamesT

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Debate?

BTW have Anna Soubry and Dominic Grieve deliberately lied on numerous occasions for their own advantage? Have they been as hypocritical as Farage? As nakedly ambitious as BoJo? As greedy as Smugg? I don't think so.
They did stand on a manifesto at the last election that promised to deliver Brexit. Their actions since then have been somewhat at odds with that. It's arguable that's somewhat hypocritical, if they didn't agree with the manifesto, they shouldn't have stood as a candidate for that party.
You can also say the same for some members of the Labour party, which also promised a Brexit where 'freedom of movement will end' which implies leaving the Single Market.
 

furnessvale

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No, we don't. Hence the issues over Galileo.

So pay our dues, and the problem goes away.
I wonder why companies and governments pay £millions in legal fees for major cases when all they need to do is consult the experts in UKRailForums.

I'll leave it there. We will have to differ and only time will tell us who, if anyone, is correct.
 

HH

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They did stand on a manifesto at the last election that promised to deliver Brexit. Their actions since then have been somewhat at odds with that. It's arguable that's somewhat hypocritical, if they didn't agree with the manifesto, they shouldn't have stood as a candidate for that party.
You can also say the same for some members of the Labour party, which also promised a Brexit where 'freedom of movement will end' which implies leaving the Single Market.
I think you'll find that individual members of parties have always disagreed with certain policy decisions of that party. Indeed, for years Mr Jeremy Corbyn seems to have disagreed with every single policy of his party. Nevertheless all these MPs have remained in their party and not been expected to leave. Why do you think that Brexit should be any different?

And are you seriously suggesting that it's as hypocritical as taking payment off the body that you are doing your best to destroy?
 

Geezertronic

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So you base what the UK owes the EU on what some bloke on a rail forum said. Sound economics. I sincerely hope our succession of useless Brexit ministers did better than say "Some bloke on the internet said it" when they agreed, if they did. God knows what they were doing though.

Maybe I should also ignore the additional (and valuable) information provided by @FelixtheCat because they are also "some bloke on a rail forum". Up until your reply, I would consider the discussion to be reasonable. But you're just another one of those people who like to put someone down if they have a different opinion to you, and unlike @FelixtheCat you do not post anything of any sense in return
 

HH

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Nissan is expected to announce that it is cancelling a planned investment at its plant in Sunderland.

Nissan is expected to announce that it is cancelling a planned investment at its plant in Sunderland.

In 2016 the car maker said it would build the new model of its X-Trail SUV in the UK after receiving "assurances" from the government over Brexit.

The Japanese company is expected to say investment will be now be pulled, rather than existing work being halted.

Labour MP for Houghton and Sunderland South, Bridget Phillipson, spoke of her concern at the prospect.

"Project Fear" turns out to be "Project Reality".

Note that Nissan is Japanese, so this is one they can't blame on the French, Germans or any other handy EU hate figure.

Don't suppose it will feature on the Sun's or Express's front page...
 
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HH

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P.S. It's getting really desperate if we have to rely on a cartoon cat to bring sense to the forums.
 

furnessvale

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Nissan is expected to announce that it is cancelling a planned investment at its plant in Sunderland.

"Project Fear" turns out to be "Project Reality".

Note that Nissan is Japanese, so this is one they can't blame on the French, Germans or any other handy EU hate figure.

Don't suppose it will feature on the Sun's or Express's front page...
Further analysis shows that the vehicle in question is the DIESEL version of the X-Trail and the market for this has absolutely collapsed. With or without Brexit this particular investment was going to hit the buffers.
 

HH

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Further analysis shows that the vehicle in question is the DIESEL version of the X-Trail and the market for this has absolutely collapsed. With or without Brexit this particular investment was going to hit the buffers.
Surely post-EU Britain will be back giving tax breaks to drivers who poison us, now we are freed from Nazi EU regulations?

But seriously, I note they are still making Diesel Qashqais, and the X-Trail has not been pulled.
 

Jonny

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From that article: "Our correspondent said as the announcement was expected to be about planned future investment, the impact on Nissan's current workforce may be very minimal." and also "Nissan refused to shed light on the situation. A spokesman said it 'does not comment on rumour or speculation'."

It doesn't help that the local MPs are using that to further their personal agenda, though.

Further analysis shows that the vehicle in question is the DIESEL version of the X-Trail and the market for this has absolutely collapsed. With or without Brexit this particular investment was going to hit the buffers.

Indeed. With a SUV (albeit another manufacturer's, and hired as well) to compare against, say, a Ford Mondeo, the poor handling in a SUV is quite noticeable, especially around corners. That's before the ludicrously poor fuel efficiency comes into playl for reference even a Mondeo is about 30-35 mpg if driven sensibly and can push 40-50 mpg if you really try.
 

JamesT

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I think you'll find that individual members of parties have always disagreed with certain policy decisions of that party. Indeed, for years Mr Jeremy Corbyn seems to have disagreed with every single policy of his party. Nevertheless all these MPs have remained in their party and not been expected to leave. Why do you think that Brexit should be any different?

And are you seriously suggesting that it's as hypocritical as taking payment off the body that you are doing your best to destroy?

I’m not sure that Brexit is particularly any different. Though there does seem to be a momentum towards deselection of MPs that disagree with their party line.
But it is this tension between our system of electing individuals to represent constituencies versus the party system where you’d expect someone to vote with their party.
I don’t know how one does comparative levels of hypocrisy, though I will note Sinn Fein have been taking allowances from Westminster for decades.
 

furnessvale

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Surely post-EU Britain will be back giving tax breaks to drivers who poison us, now we are freed from Nazi EU regulations?

But seriously, I note they are still making Diesel Qashqais, and the X-Trail has not been pulled.
This new diesel X-Trail is supposed to use a new Renault diesel engine. Unfortunately, try as they may, the French are unable to meet the new emissions regulations and the project is cancelled/seriously delayed.

Shame really as all Renault needed to do was contact our clean emissions conscious German friends at VW who could have sold them a 50p computer chip which would have cured the problem.
 

thejuggler

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Nissan is expected to announce that it is cancelling a planned investment at its plant in Sunderland.



"Project Fear" turns out to be "Project Reality".

Note that Nissan is Japanese, so this is one they can't blame on the French, Germans or any other handy EU hate figure.

Don't suppose it will feature on the Sun's or Express's front page...

Nissan UK hasn't been Japanese since 1999. Every model they make is based on a Renault chassis design and uses Renault running gear, electronics etc.

Don't be surprised to see France producing them, just as Vauxhall will probably be built by French Peugeot factories.
 

Ianno87

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Further analysis shows that the vehicle in question is the DIESEL version of the X-Trail and the market for this has absolutely collapsed. With or without Brexit this particular investment was going to hit the buffers.

But if they'd set up for the Diesel version, that's workforce and skills that would've then rolled on into something else after that, which now can't happen.

It's the Trump/Rees-Mogg style of reaction to these things ("well, we didn't want it anyway!")
 

HH

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I have to say that I would buy neither a Nissan, nor a SUV, which I loathe, so I don't see it as a great loss anyway. Those hoping to get/retain jobs in the North East may see it differently.
 

furnessvale

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But if they'd set up for the Diesel version, that's workforce and skills that would've then rolled on into something else after that, which now can't happen.

It's the Trump/Rees-Mogg style of reaction to these things ("well, we didn't want it anyway!")
And I think your first sentence is the Jeremy Corbyn reaction. "Lets spend £100s of millions on a project that is doomed and hope that something turns up in the end".

Aren't Nissan producing electric vehicles in the UK which IS the future?
 

EM2

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Regarding the Nissan news.
The diesel X-Trail will still be built.
It will no longer be built in Sunderland.
Investment in the Sunderland plant will now not happen.
That investment had been announced after Nissan had received assurances over Brexit.

For whatever reason Nissan have made this decision, it is bad news for Sunderland.
 

furnessvale

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Regarding the Nissan news.
The diesel X-Trail will still be built.
It will no longer be built in Sunderland.
Investment in the Sunderland plant will now not happen.
That investment had been announced after Nissan had received assurances over Brexit.

For whatever reason Nissan have made this decision, it is bad news for Sunderland.
So far Nissan themselves have refused to confirm or deny this rumour.

You may well be correct but I can find no concrete evidence. If only a few diesels are to be built because of the collapse of the diesel market, it would make sense to build them at the petrol engined plant which is elsewhere.
 
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