EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[nlogax]

Nicely done @NorthernSpirit, that is really some top tinfoilhattery and industrial grade hard right BS you've bought into.

 

[birchesgreen]

Someone mentioned that the term Nazi is short for National Socialist

Indeed when the nazi party was originally formed it did have socialist ideas (though always dominated by nationalism and anti-semitism), Hitler swept those away though after he took it over and chased corporate backers and the middle classes. The final removal of "socialism" coming with the Night of the Long Knives and the killing of Ernest Rohm.

A party's name doesn't really mean anything. The Tories are officially the Conservative & Unionist Party, some of their actions over the years can make you wonder about the unionist part!

 

[Jonny]

It also doesn't help that the Leader of the Opposition (who may secretly be hoping that a hard Brexit happens) is more bothered about precipitating a general election. It would be ironic if we went into Purdah for such an election on a no-deal trajectory.

Indeed when the nazi party was originally formed it did have socialist ideas (though always dominated by nationalism and anti-semitism), Hitler swept those away though after he took it over and chased corporate backers and the middle classes. The final removal of "socialism" coming with the Night of the Long Knives and the killing of Ernest Rohm.

Lenin and Stalin were quite similar in methodology if not philosophy, although they nationalised everything and declared the government to also be the trade union (effectively getting rid of independent trade unions by the back door). What emerged in the USSR was even worse!

That shows that political groups or blocs rarely fit well into categories. If you thought that a centrist bureaucratic pseudo-dictatorship could not happen, think again

 

[birchesgreen]

I'll only get worried if the country is renamed a Democratic Republic.

 

[dgl]

I'll only get worried if the country is renamed a Democratic Republic.

Agreed, seems strange that any country with the word 'democratic' in the title is anything but.

As for the EU-Nazi comparisons, I just don't get it. Esp. as whilst Germany is so called the controller by some, it seems a lot of the rules that brexiteers seem to hate were instigated by the UK.

 

[AM9]

Agreed, seems strange that any country with the word 'democratic' in the title is anything but.

As for the EU-Nazi comparisons, I just don't get it. Esp. as whilst Germany is so called the controller by some, it seems a lot of the rules that brexiteers seem to hate were instigated by the UK.

True, but don't spoil the chance for leavers to rant about foregners, - they need their daily fix.

 

[VauxhallandI]

I've just opened my tax statement for the year.

EU got £119 from the total tax of £17,000.

A great example of diversion tactics.

Where's the real fire?

 

[HH]

Interesting to see the Daily Globe linked. The DG is run by CANZUK supporters. For those of you who don't know, CANZUK is for people who believe in greater ties between the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, i.e. the "White Commonwealth". Seems a natural fit for British Nationalist parties. Any resemblance between their articles and the truth is likely to be purely incidental.

 

[yorksrob]

I hear the Grayling clown has been on the news pontificating about Brexit.

No one gives a toss what you think about Brexit Grayling. Do your job and get the trains running.

 

[HH]

I hear the Grayling clown has been on the news pontificating about Brexit.

No one gives a toss what you think about Brexit Grayling. Do your job and get the trains running.

Two things:

1. He couldn't make a bigger mess of Brexit than the clowns already in charge; and
2. He couldn't make a bigger mess of Brexit than he has of the trains.

*DING*

 

[birchesgreen]

I'm not sure, i don't think we should let him try

 

[Muttley]

Agreed, seems strange that any country with the word 'democratic' in the title is anything but.

As for the EU-Nazi comparisons, I just don't get it. Esp. as whilst Germany is so called the controller by some, it seems a lot of the rules that brexiteers seem to hate were instigated by the UK.

Worded by, not instigated by.

 

[yorksrob]

Two things:

1. He couldn't make a bigger mess of Brexit than the clowns already in charge; and
2. He couldn't make a bigger mess of Brexit than he has of the trains.

*DING*

My point is - his job is the trains - he should concentrate on that.

 

[Esker-pades]

My point is - his job is the trains - he should concentrate on that.

I'd really rather he didn't. He's already made enough of a mess as it is.

 

[EM2]

Worded by, not instigated by.

Well, let's look at the European Single Market, as an example.
Baron Cockfield went to the Delors Commission (he was a Vice-President to the Commission at the time) to take the initiative to attempt to relaunch the common market. Cockfield wrote and published a White Paper in 1985 identifying 300 measures to be addressed in order to complete a single market. That White Paper was well received and led to the adoption of the Single European Treaty, the treaty which reformed the decision-making mechanisms of the EEC. He's often referred to as 'The Father Of The Single Market'.

 

[yorksrob]

I'd really rather he didn't. He's already made enough of a mess as it is.

I don't care. He should get the trains running, rather than pontificating about other things.

 

[yorksrob]

Well, let's look at the European Single Market, as an example.
Baron Cockfield went to the Delors Commission (he was a Vice-President to the Commission at the time) to take the initiative to attempt to relaunch the common market. Cockfield wrote and published a White Paper in 1985 identifying 300 measures to be addressed in order to complete a single market. That White Paper was well received and led to the adoption of the Single European Treaty, the treaty which reformed the decision-making mechanisms of the EEC. He's often referred to as 'The Father Of The Single Market'.

Perhaps that's where we went wrong.

Did we (or anyone else ) actually want the common market relaunched.

Perhaps we should have stuck with an economic community.

 

[EM2]

Perhaps that's where we went wrong.

Did we (or anyone else ) actually want the common market relaunched.

Perhaps we should have stuck with an economic community.

It was a core objective of the EEC since its formation. For various reasons, it hadn't really worked properly, and it was Thatcher that sent Cockfield to Brussels to try and sort it out.

 

[yorksrob]

It was a core objective of the EEC since its formation. For various reasons, it hadn't really worked properly, and it was Thatcher that sent Cockfield to Brussels to try and sort it out.

And he did it in the worst possible way - the Thatcherite way. As with every Conservative government, no one enquired whether this philosophy was agreed with everywhere else.

 

[EM2]

And he did it in the worst possible way - the Thatcherite way. As with every Conservative government, no one enquired whether this philosophy was agreed with everywhere else.

If it wasn’t, the EEC wouldn’t have adopted it.

 

[HH]

If it wasn’t, the EEC wouldn’t have adopted it.

I said before that people don't understand how the EEC works. It seems I was being kind.

 

[Revilo]

Interesting to see the Daily Globe linked. The DG is run by CANZUK supporters. For those of you who don't know, CANZUK is for people who believe in greater ties between the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, i.e. the "White Commonwealth". Seems a natural fit for British Nationalist parties. Any resemblance between their articles and the truth is likely to be purely incidental.

So those who want to see closer ties with our Commonwealth cousins are somehow racist? Despite the obvious links between us (family, history, language, monarch, business, system of Government). Yet those who want ever-closer ties with the (predominantly white Christian) EU are not?

In fact having our own immigration policy allows the UK to decide the level and type of immigration based on the skills we need (from all cultures) - rather than the current bias in favour of European culture.

 

[yorksrob]

It was a core objective of the EEC since its formation. For various reasons, it hadn't really worked properly, and it was Thatcher that sent Cockfield to Brussels to try and sort it out.

Well no one botherd to ask the electorate for it, but the Tories send what they want for a Tory Europe.

 

[EM2]

Well no one botherd to ask the electorate for it, but the Tories send what they want for a Tory Europe.

The electorate had already been asked, in the 1975 referendum. Not for nothing was the EEC often referred to as ‘the Common Market’.

 

[yorksrob]

The electorate had already been asked, in the 1975 referendum. Not for nothing was the EEC often referred to as ‘the Common Market’.

We were busy discussing the "Common Market" when perhaps we should have been considering what "ever closer union" actually meant.

It's all too late now.

 

[bnm]

We didn't get the option of whether we were joining or not in 1973

We didn't. But all major political parties and, by extension, the electorate they represented were greatly in favour of joining the EEC. A decision ratified by referendum in 1975.

We also had UK politicians of a much higher diplomatic calibre and greatly more adept at negotiating with the EEC. Negotiations that were carried out by both Labour in the late 60s and Conservative in the early 70s.

 

[AlterEgo]

This is also of some interest. Want proof, well here it is.
http://www.dailyglobe.co.uk/comment...Q7xhs9ONfS2tO0lEw2OZzeeF2yhV_35uBUegsVBaP8Qo8
Don't tell me that the EU was built for peace as it wasn't.

Someone mentioned that the term Nazi is short for National Socialist, well if you took any interest in history when in school you'll find that it is. Sadly this forum seems to think that no matter how many links you post from the Guardian / Owen Jones' creche or the (Sub)Standard (which are both lefty papers) that someone with a opposing view will take you serious, as they won't.

Some of you should watch the videos made by "Reverend Simon Sideways" as he does point out facts.

Proof provided by the Daily Globe. Hahahaha.

 

[HH]

So those who want to see closer ties with our Commonwealth cousins are somehow racist?

Why just those three countries? There are 53 nations in the Commonwealth.

 

[EM2]

...perhaps we should have been considering what "ever closer union" actually meant.

It's all too late now.

And that's something we have an opt-out from.

 

[yorksrob]

And that's something we have an opt-out from.

We do indeed - which is why we should have seen how it worked for a few years before embarking on a referendum.

In truth though, the opt-out probably should have been considered from the start as we've already had forty years of "ever closer union".