EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[EM2]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46460194

The company which the Electoral Commission suspects may have been behind Britain's biggest political donation has no registered address - meaning it has failed to fulfil a key legal requirement - the BBC has found.

Rock Holdings is a firm registered in the Isle of Man and controlled by Leave.EU founder Arron Banks.

The Electoral Commission's ongoing investigation of Leave.EU funds was referred to the National Crime Agency.

Mr Banks denies any wrongdoing.

But BBC Newsnight has found that Rock Holdings has no official registered address on the Isle of Man and that it is therefore "in default", meaning it is not compliant with company law on the island.

 

[HH]

British Neo-Nazis suggest Prince Harry should be shot
This is the problem with all these populist movements - they give a patina of respectability to such scum.

 

[nidave]

Surprising no one - the most pointless debate in history. The format cant be agreed upon by two of the most pointless people in politics.
ITV scraps plans to host May-Corbyn Brexit debate

Decision means there will be no debate between two leaders before next week’s parliamentary vote
ITV says it has scrapped plans to host a televised Brexit debate between Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn on Sunday.

After the BBC also abandoned its proposal earlier in the week, ITV’s decision means that there is now unlikely to be a TV debate between the two leaders before next week’s parliamentary vote.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/06/itv-scraps-plans-to-host-may-corbyn-brexit-debate

 

[fowler9]

British Neo-Nazis suggest Prince Harry should be shot
This is the problem with all these populist movements - they give a patina of respectability to such scum.

Great bunch of lads.

 

[Aictos]

They hardly seem to have been discussed. It appears we're all expected just to sit back and accept the ending of the rights we have as citizens of the European Union. I'd have hoped that a lot more would have been made about deprivation of citizenship.

Actually that was discussed on BBC Parliament this morning and nothing was said of deprivation of citizenship rather that the agreement actually protects both EU workers in the UK and UK workers in the EU so nothing will change for the worse on that account.

 

[radamfi]

Actually that was discussed on BBC Parliament this morning and nothing was said of deprivation of citizenship

So it wasn't discussed!

 

[Aictos]

So it wasn't discussed!

Actually it was asked and it was confirmed that workers rights will NOT be affected so citizens won't be losing their rights to work.

It's just Project Fear kicking in again

 

[EM2]

...citizens won't be losing their rights to work.

It's just Project Fear kicking in again

So they said that there will be free movement of labour between the EU and the UK when we leave?

 

[birchesgreen]

Yay keep the good news coming

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ab72c6f0-f9af-11e8-83e5-4dc2d31f2a89

"Ministers will order pharmacists to ration drugs if UK crashes out

Pharmacists will overrule GPs to ration drugs under a no-deal Brexit, The Times has learnt.

Ministers will order them to alter prescriptions without first contacting the patient’s GP in order to mitigate any extreme shortages, according to a leaked document."

 

[birchesgreen]

This is good, shows the intellect of our former Brexit minister

https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1070770233714061312

"David Davis has given interview to The House magazine. He explains *that* photograph. “It was a setup by the Commission...But you ask yourself, who’s the person better briefed, the person who’s got it in their head or the person who’s got a foot of papers in front of them. Eh?”

Indeed.

 

[Muttley]

This is good, shows the intellect of our former Brexit minister

https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1070770233714061312

"David Davis has given interview to The House magazine. He explains *that* photograph. “It was a setup by the Commission...But you ask yourself, who’s the person better briefed, the person who’s got it in their head or the person who’s got a foot of papers in front of them. Eh?”

Indeed.

Would you like your resucitating paramedic to be leafing through his manuals or would you like him to have the knowledge in his head ?

 

[Mag_seven]

Actually it was asked and it was confirmed that workers rights will NOT be affected so citizens won't be losing their rights to work.

It's just Project Fear kicking in again

"Project Fear" = label used after being presented with the facts and not liking them.

 

[birchesgreen]

Would you like your resucitating paramedic to be leafing through his manuals or would you like him to have the knowledge in his head ?

You missed the point, he lacked the basic political common sense to realise he needed to look at least semi-prepared in a press photo. But then again this is a man who tried to win his party's leadership campaign by displaying childish phrases across womens' chests.

As for knowledge being in his head, yes he really did show that didn't he?

 

[nlogax]

Would you like your resucitating paramedic to be leafing through his manuals or would you like him to have the knowledge in his head ?

Why are you drawing comparisons beteeen highly trained paramedics who save lives every day and the highly successful Brexit negotiating genius that is David Davis?

 

[Howardh]

Why are you drawing comparisons beteeen highly trained paramedics who save lives every day and the highly successful Brexit negotiating genius that is David Davis?

Brexiters don't like experts, they're always wrong! When they go into hospital for a heart bypass or kidney transplant, they make sure the cleaner or security guard does the job
meanwhile, I've no idea who the latest Brexit negotiator is (is it Mrs Duffy or Brenda from Bristol?) but some of May's platoon of Brexit-voting MP's have been on the telly this morning pleading for their MP's to vote fot the "deal" as it's the only way to deliver (any kind of) Brexit. By default, then, they must be scared witless that to vote it doem means Brexit is lost.
Go vote it down, MP's, and ask us again

 

[Aictos]

So they said that there will be free movement of labour between the EU and the UK when we leave?

What was said was simply that workers rights will be protected by the agreement regardless of if they are EU residents working in the UK or UK residents working in the EU as both are important to both the British Government and the European Commission.

"Project Fear" = label used after being presented with the facts and not liking them.

I'm being realistic and yes I will use the label Project Fear as some here and elsewhere are acting like the world will come to a end etc...

Life will go on regardless of what doomsayers say and the fact remains that Europe remains a important partner but its time for a new relationship.

Don't get me wrong, I believe trade is very important but when you get EU laws overwriting UK laws then enough is enough.

We need to trade but we shouldn't have everything dictated to us by Brussels and I say that as a Germanophile who simply wants a new working relationship that sees the EU reformed.

 

[Howardh]

What was said was simply that workers rights will be protected by the agreement regardless of if they are EU residents working in the UK or UK residents working in the EU as both are important to both the British Government and the European Commission.

when you get EU laws overwriting UK laws then enough is enough.

Can you name some EU laws that overwrite ours that (a) we wouldn't have done anyway (b) that we had a veto or opt-out on but didn't use? Not trying to create an issue here, but I really would like to know the answer as I'm in the dark. Please educate me.

 

[HH]

...when you get EU laws overwriting UK laws then enough is enough.

I too am fascinated by this. My issue is I'd like to know precisely why this is so bad? New laws have always overwritten old laws - otherwise we'd all still have to be practising archery on the village green every Sunday...

It's the problem with many of the things that appear to worry brexiteers. I can't eat sovereignty; it doesn't pay my bills; it doesn't keep me warm in winter. In the words of MP, "What did Sovereignty ever do for us?"

 

[EM2]

What was said was simply that workers rights will be protected by the agreement regardless of if they are EU residents working in the UK or UK residents working in the EU as both are important to both the British Government and the European Commission.

But after the Brexit date, UK workers can't freely move to the EU for work, and vice versa.
So the right that all EU citizens have enjoyed will be removed.

 

[radamfi]

What was said was simply that workers rights will be protected by the agreement regardless of if they are EU residents working in the UK or UK residents working in the EU as both are important to both the British Government and the European Commission.

But that is only about EU citizens currently working in the UK and UK citizens currently working in the EU. What about UK citizens currently in the UK, wanting to work in the EU in the future?

Free movement is also not just about working. It also allows UK citizens to retire and study in the EU.

 

[bramling]

I too am fascinated by this. My issue is I'd like to know precisely why this is so bad? New laws have always overwritten old laws - otherwise we'd all still have to be practising archery on the village green every Sunday...

It's the problem with many of the things that appear to worry brexiteers. I can't eat sovereignty; it doesn't pay my bills; it doesn't keep me warm in winter. In the words of MP, "What did Sovereignty ever do for us?"

It allows us, if enough people feel the same way, to change things we don’t like.

Even if an executive is bent on a particular policy, jittery MPs in marginal seats will exert pressure for change. Remember what happened to Lady Thatcher over the unpopular poll tax.

There’s simply no mechanism to influence Juncker and company.

Likewise Britain got a referendum because large numbers of people voted UKIP, eventually coming to a point where a mainstream party responded.

Another spin-off benefit of sovereignty in the U.K. versus EU situation is that it tends to result in decisions being made nearer to the people, either through the U.K. government or through the devolved assemblies. This is generally regarded as a good thing in encouraging voter / populace participation in politics, which is also generally regarded as a good thing.

I’d rather have the benefits of sovereignty even if it meant I had to work a bit harder to pay the bills.

 

[Howardh]

It allows us, if enough people feel the same way, to change things we don’t like.

Even if an executive is bent on a particular policy, jittery MPs in marginal seats will exert pressure for change. Remember what happened to Lady Thatcher over the unpopular poll tax.

There’s simply no mechanism to influence Juncker and company.

Likewise Britain got a referendum because large numbers of people voted UKIP, eventually coming to a point where a mainstream party responded.

Another spin-off benefit of sovereignty in the U.K. versus EU situation is that it tends to result in decisions being made nearer to the people, either through the U.K. government or through the devolved assemblies. This is generally regarded as a good thing in encouraging voter / populace participation in politics, which is also generally regarded as a good thing.

I’d rather have the benefits of sovereignty even if it meant I had to work a bit harder to pay the bills.

Fine - but can you tell us something specific which the EU has dictated to us that the people didn't want? That our parliament didn't want and couldn't use a veto or opt-out?

Please?

 

[bramling]

But that is only about EU citizens currently working in the UK and UK citizens currently working in the EU. What about UK citizens currently in the UK, wanting to work in the EU in the future?

Free movement is also not just about working. It also allows UK citizens to retire and study in the EU.

Life is about compromises and sometimes not being able to do things which ideally we’d like to do.

If ending free movement arrests the current rapid growth in the U.K. population, and the numerous negative consequences associated with that (public services, infrastructure, housing, quality of life etc), then in my view loss of the right (*) to live / work elsewhere a price very well worth paying.

(* actually, I’d say freedom of movement is more a privilege than a “right”.)

 

[bramling]

Fine - but can you tell us something specific which the EU has dictated to us that the people didn't want? That our parliament didn't want and couldn't use a veto or opt-out?

Please?

Not being able to end freedom of movement.

 

[Howardh]

Not being able to end freedom of movement.

You CAN end the freedom of movement of EU people here after three months if they can't support themselves, send them home. We never chose to do that, as far as I know. EU's fault or ours?
PS - we are also ending OUR freedom of movement.

 

[bramling]

You CAN end the freedom of movement of EU people here after three months if they can't support themselves, send them home. We never chose to do that, as far as I know. EU's fault or ours?
PS - we are also ending OUR freedom of movement.

Okay how about inhibiting EU citizens from coming here in the first place, which is what most people think of when wishing to end free movement?

Clearly many are unconcerned with ending our free movement if the associated benefits are worthwhile. As I say, life is about trade-offs.

 

[Howardh]

Noticed in the papers they are expecting a load of our retiers ex-pats to "return home".

So those Eu's working here and contributing to our economy will be disappearing (the official stats show that to be the case) might well be replaced by retired ex-pats taking up housing, benefits, doctor's/hospital space (and eventually care homes no doubt) and taking their pensions, winter fuel allowances*, free TV licences, bus passes etc and contributing little back.

Ah, nice one Brexit.

*can someone confirm/deny this; senior citizens taking a UK pension but living abroad could still get their winter fuel allowance, even if they were living in the sunshine? True or urban myth? Whatever - they will be entitled to it if they return.

 

[Howardh]

Okay how about inhibiting EU citizens from coming here in the first place, which is what most people think of when wishing to end free movement?

Clearly many are unconcerned with ending our free movement if the associated benefits are worthwhile. As I say, life is about trade-offs.

There aren't any associated benefits though. If there was I may accept it as an necessary step.

 

[furnessvale]

Fine - but can you tell us something specific which the EU has dictated to us that the people didn't want? That our parliament didn't want and couldn't use a veto or opt-out?

Please?

The forced use of white diesel (or paying white price) for propulsion purposes in inland canal vessels in the UK.

Not wanted by the government. Certainly not wanted by boaters who now pay £100s pa in extra tax. Forced by the EU on the altar of "harmonisation".

Not a big item and of no concern to non boaters but don't worry, the next EU tax will probably apply to houses but not boats!

 

[radamfi]

*can someone confirm/deny this; senior citizens taking a UK pension but living abroad could still get their winter fuel allowance, even if they were living in the sunshine? True or urban myth? Whatever - they will be entitled to it if they return.

https://www.gov.uk/winter-fuel-payment/eligibility

You can not get the payment if you live in Cyprus, France, Gibraltar, Greece, Malta, Portugal or Spain because the average winter temperature is higher than the warmest region of the UK.