EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[EM2]

The EU is doing what it perceives to be in its own best interests, I have no problem if the UK does the same.

That way, everyone loses. Actually, that's not quite true, both parties could act in their own best interests by the UK not leaving the EU.

 

[nidave]

So which way is it then? Is US milk going to decimate our farmers or is it too expensive to fly it across the Atlantic?

As for hardball, no problem. The EU is doing what it perceives to be in its own best interests, I have no problem if the UK does the same.

I never mentioned the expense. Just pointing out the stupidity. Flying milk will probably still be cheaper due to the massive oversupply in the USA.

But let's totally destroy the UK milk industry. That's going to be fun. We can build houses on the farmlands instead.

 

[Ken H]

I never mentioned the expense. Just pointing out the stupidity. Flying milk will probably still be cheaper due to the massive oversupply in the USA.

But let's totally destroy the UK milk industry. That's going to be fun. We can build houses on the farmlands instead.

what UK milk industry? people want milk at £1 for 4 pints from the supermarket. farmers cant produce it for that. All the dairy farms round here are now doing beef.

 

[Senex]

So we're definitely out of Galileo now, even though we've already paid £1.2bn towards it, and May is determined to have a military-grade system of her own. Presumably this is yet another call on that £350 million a week bonus that we were going to get from leaving and that was all going to go to the NHS. But given Britain's record on costs, time-keeping, and performance to spec with big military contracts over very many years, what can the prospects be for our very own Galileo? And won't it be fun if we end up having to buy launch capacity on France's Ariane rockets? On the whole Brexit issue and May's "deal", Sam Gyimah, for whom Galileo seems to have been the final straw in bringing about his resignation, had some vry cogent remarks to make in his interview on the R4 "Today" programme this morning.

 

[EM2]

But given Britain's record on costs, time-keeping, and performance to spec with big military contracts over very many years, what can the prospects be for our very own Galileo?

According to Sky News, there might be issues with any new system having the bandwidth to even operate.
https://news.sky.com/story/uk-plans...f-twitter&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral

Government plans to build Britain's own satellite navigation system could hit the buffers because other countries have already claimed the signal space, Sky News has learned.

The UK will no longer have access to the military grade signal of the EU's Galileo system after Brexit - unless it renegotiates access - and it is looking at plans to build an alternative at a cost of £3-5bn.

But the US, Russia, China, Japan and India also have sat nav systems in operation, each with their own high precision signal for security use and a less accurate public signal.

Bleddyn Bowen, an expert in space policy at Leicester University, told Sky News that the entire spectrum of useable radio frequencies has been shared out between the countries, with no spare capacity.

"If Britain wants to build its own system it would have to get all those countries to agree where to take spectrum from. That is a geopolitical headache for Britain to try to resolve if it goes ahead," he said.

In 2003 Galileo was almost scuppered by the US, which feared it threatened the integrity of its GPS system. Ironically Britain sided with the Americans against the newcomer.

Negotiations for access to radio frequencies would be at the International Telecom Union.

"But Britain does not have many negotiators at the ITU because it is not a capacity Britain has had to develop," said Dr Bowen.

"In the past it has been done on a European level, either through the EU or the European Space Agency."

Britain would still have access to Galileo's public signal, so car sat-navs would still work.

But without access to the military signal Britain would have to rely on the encrypted stream from the US GPS system.

If that was jammed by enemy forces - or Britain was denied access by the Americans in a time of crisis - our satellite-guided weapons would be rendered useless. Galileo would have given Britain a back-up.

Sam Gyimah, the science minister, said it was unlikely Britain would be able to do a deal with the EU for continued access to Galileo.

But he was more optimistic that Britain could negotiate a signal frequency for its own satellite navigation system.

"We speak to a number of allies and there is opportunity here for us," he said.

"We can't discuss everything because this is part of our security needs.

"There is a way in which we can deliver something that is consistent with our military needs but with other allies willing to work with us."

Procurement of a British-built replacement for Galileo would be a bonanza for the space industry.

Glasgow-based Clyde Space has proposed a radical alternative using 1,000 nanosatellites the size of a loaf of bread in a very low orbit.

The constellation would give highly precise positioning across a wide region for two hours a day.

Craig Clark, the company's founder, said: "It would be a tenth of the cost of a traditional system. It would save billions potentially."

He said the idea had been rejected by the government.

"There is a danger when you are too innovative that people think there is too much risk," he added.

"But we are here and happy to continue the conversation."

 

[bnm]

what UK milk industry? people want milk at £1 for 4 pints from the supermarket. farmers cant produce it for that. All the dairy farms round here are now doing beef.

97% of UK milk is consumed in the UK. UK milk production is at its highest since 1990. The current farm gate price is around 31p per litre. Cost of production is around 28p per litre. 10% profit margin.

£1 for four pints (44p pence per litre) in the supermarket is not excessively cheap.

 

[Meole]

Muller pay 28p and propose 27.5p next year.

 

[bnm]

Yes, it's the processors such as Muller Wiseman and Arla who are squeezing margins. Most of the larger supermarkets chains have their own processing capability for milk. They pay a sustainable price.

 

[The_Train]

What is the actual point of this TV debate when the vast vast majority of those watching can no longer impact how Brexit is completed? Those few who can make these decisions (this is democracy apparently) might as well just stick to arguing behind closed doors or at PMQs and leave valuable Sunday evening airtime to Lovejoy and Bullseye

 

[nidave]

So we're definitely out of Galileo now, even though we've already paid £1.2bn towards it, and May is determined to have a military-grade system of her own. Presumably this is yet another call on that £350 million a week bonus that we were going to get from leaving and that was all going to go to the NHS. But given Britain's record on costs, time-keeping, and performance to spec with big military contracts over very many years, what can the prospects be for our very own Galileo? And won't it be fun if we end up having to buy launch capacity on France's Ariane rockets? On the whole Brexit issue and May's "deal", Sam Gyimah, for whom Galileo seems to have been the final straw in bringing about his resignation, had some vry cogent remarks to make in his interview on the R4 "Today" programme this morning.

We can't make our own as the government did not allocate a negotiator on behalf of the UK to the ITU to discuss our options post Brexit?!

As we were not represented, most free UK radio allocations have just been reallocated between 2019-2022.

The UK can forget launching a satellite system of it's own now - it pretty soon won't even be able to launch a new radio station let alone fly anything into space.

https://news.sky.com/story/uk-plans-for-satellite-navigation-system-in-doubt-after-brexit-11566068

We can't negotiate a radio frequency how are we going to do in more complex matters like trade.

 

[Howardh]

Satellite navigation?

What's wrong with using OS maps gawdammit??

 

[radamfi]

Are politicians ever questioned about the loss of free movement for UK citizens? If so, how do they respond?

 

[Senex]

Are politicians ever questioned about the loss of free movement for UK citizens? If so, how do they respond?

They hardly seem to have been discussed. It appears we're all expected just to sit back and accept the ending of the rights we have as citizens of the European Union. I'd have hoped that a lot more would have been made about deprivation of citizenship.

 

[bramling]

They hardly seem to have been discussed. It appears we're all expected just to sit back and accept the ending of the rights we have as citizens of the European Union. I'd have hoped that a lot more would have been made about deprivation of citizenship.

Clearly it’s not a salient issue for many / most, as otherwise we’d hear more about it.

I can’t say I can readily think of anyone I know who cares about the loss. I know a couple who have spent time working abroad, but in Japan, USA, Canada - no one who has gone elsewhere in the EU.

 

[Ken H]

Clearly it’s not a salient issue for many / most, as otherwise we’d hear more about it.

I can’t say I can readily think of anyone I know who cares about the loss. I know a couple who have spent time working abroad, but in Japan, USA, Canada - no one who has gone elsewhere in the EU.

People managed to work in Europe before we joined the EU. Like any other country, EU countries post brexit will allow people to work there if they have skills that are needed. Like the US, canada, Australia, Japan etc do already. And they will allow pensioners to live there as long as they wont claim benefits and have appropriate health insurance (as Expats should now)

 

[Howardh]

Clearly it’s not a salient issue for many / most, as otherwise we’d hear more about it.

I can’t say I can readily think of anyone I know who cares about the loss. I know a couple who have spent time working abroad, but in Japan, USA, Canada - no one who has gone elsewhere in the EU.

People managed to work in Europe before we joined the EU. Like any other country, EU countries post brexit will allow people to work there if they have skills that are needed. Like the US, canada, Australia, Japan etc do already. And they will allow pensioners to live there as long as they wont claim benefits and have appropriate health insurance (as Expats should now)

Think the immediate problem will be college and uni students who expect to go into the EU during holidays for the manual work in hotels, resorts, bars etc who will have that avenue almost certainly cut off as resorts will be obliged to employ EU citizens as first-choice. The money's important, but they gain experience of living abroad (albeit for a short time) and it's a pity they will lose that and gain nothing back in return.

Of course if resorts can't fill the vacancies with EU's then there may well be opportunities. Also our government could work out a reprociprical agreement with the EU r/e students working although I don't trust any government of ours to open a paper bag let alone sign a treaty.

 

[radamfi]

People managed to work in Europe before we joined the EU.

It is very frustrating when people say that. Immigration from outside the EU is now much more difficult than it was before the UK joined.

If free movement is irrelevant, why do people care so much about getting it removed?

 

[radamfi]

And they will allow pensioners to live there as long as they wont claim benefits and have appropriate health insurance (as Expats should now)

So how do you retire to the UK or the Netherlands when they don't have retirement visas for those without a prior connection to the country?

 

[Ken H]

So how do you retire to the UK or the Netherlands when they don't have retirement visas for those without a prior connection to the country?

Freedom of movement does not allow that now. It just allows you to seek work. And you have to go home after 3 months if you dont find work. There is no FOM for those who are not working. Its for each country to set its own rules.

 

[radamfi]

Freedom of movement does not allow that now. It just allows you to seek work. And you have to go home after 3 months if you dont find work. There is no FOM for those who are not working. Its for each country to set its own rules.

Eh? Freedom of movement can be used for retirement.

 

[cactustwirly]

Eh? Freedom of movement can be used for retirement.

Look at all the ex Pat's in Spain, France etc

 

[Ken H]

Eh? Freedom of movement can be used for retirement.

got a reference for that?
All i can find is stuff about free movement of workers

 

[Ken H]

Look at all the ex Pat's in Spain, France etc

Yes. they welcome them because they bring their money with them. not because of EU regs.

 

[radamfi]

got a reference for that?
All i can find is stuff about free movement of workers

Blimey, you are serious! Try a search engine.

 

[Ken H]

Blimey, you are serious! Try a search engine.

I did.

 

[Mvann]

It is very frustrating when people say that. Immigration from outside the EU is now much more difficult than it was before the UK joined.

If free movement is irrelevant, why do people care so much about getting it removed?

Because it gives people options and probably because most people believe it's a threat to their holiday plans and day trips/Weekend breaks.

 

[EM2]

got a reference for that?
All i can find is stuff about free movement of workers

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/residence-rights/pensioners/index_en.htm

As an EU national, you can live in any EU country if you have:

• comprehensive health insurance cover in your host country
• sufficient income to live there without needing income support.

Income could come from a pension, if you are a pensioner, or any other source of revenue.

 

[radamfi]

Because it gives people options and probably because most people believe it's a threat to their holiday plans and day trips/Weekend breaks.

I meant Brexiteers are desperate to get free movement removed. If free movement is irrelevant, then it would make no difference to Brits wanting to live in the EU or to EU citizens wanting to live in the UK.

 

[Mvann]

I meant Brexiteers are desperate to get free movement removed. If free movement is irrelevant, then it would make no difference to Brits wanting to live in the EU or to EU citizens wanting to live in the UK.

Sorry misread the post. Trying to do too many things before going to work

 

[SteveP29]

AAll countries have an immigration policy and those policies do change. The Uk for Non EU workers is set in a way that those areas where there is a skill shortage take precedent for visas over those areas where there isn't a shortage.

You mean controlled migration eh?
When ironically the country has more migrants from non EU countries with controls.


Hmm, 2 + 2 = 475 (once you've added all of their children and family that they'll be bringing into the country)