EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[radamfi]

do you really think the EU will impose Visa restriction on UK citizens going to EU countries?

Not for short trips but if the UK imposes visa requirements for EU citizens wanting to live in the UK then reciprocity implies the reverse.

 

[AM9]

a 3 way vote is an apalling idea.
we had a leave EU vote, and decided leave
the fcuk up the gov have made of brexit does not invalidate that

...
That's true. In a democracy, the 'will of the public' trumps everything.
So if the actual position and potential impact of the UK's departure from the EU is significantly different from that of 29 months ago, the 'will of the people' must be determined again. That's also how democracy works.

 

[Senex]

That's what Prescott's grand scheme for elected regional assemblies was meant to lead us I would think... IIRC that plan fell at the first hurdle when the North East were given a vote on whether to have a regional assembly and they stuck 2 fingers up at the idea

The North East were given a vote on something that was simply extra levels of burocracy rather than real devolution with the same sort of powers that Scotland (or even London) had, and they rejected it. This rejection has been taken ever after by the opponents of devolution as a rejection of devolution itself. (Rather like the way the opponenets of electoral reform argue that we've all had the chance to vote on electoral reform and we rejected it, whereas the option to vote for a genuine proportional system has never been put before us.)

 

[Senex]

...
That's true. In a democracy, the 'will of the public' trumps everything.
So if the actual position and potential impact of the UK's departure from the EU is significantly different from that of 29 months ago, the 'will of the people' must be determined again. That's also how democracy works.

It's how democracy should work, but it's not May's view of it. As far as she's concerned, the will of the 17 million of 29 months ago is all that matters (even if it's then "après moi la déluge") and is the "overwhelming" decision of the British people.

 

[AlterEgo]

Reciprocity.

So nobody’s made a decision on *you* at all then.

 

[nidave]

A progressive country is supposed to protect its minorities. You also don't seem to care about destroying my future.

People also seem to not give a stuff about the Good friday Agtreement with I and others (who grew up in NI during the tail end of the troubles) voted for and the whole brexit is in danger of making everything I and others voted for, invalid. As long as the brexit people get what they want who cares about anyone else. Boils my blood.

 

[Howardh]

If people genuinely wanted to exercise their "right" to move to Slovenia, Lithuania or anywhere else in the EU wonderland they'd have already done so. .

Bit difficult when you're 15 and have aspirations because you're pretty good at languages.

 

[Howardh]

Even Diminic Raab C. Brexit, the former Brexit secretary (for what, a week?) has admitted - on Radio 4 this morning I believe - that remaining in the EU is a better option than May's deal. And seeing as we aren't prepared and would vote down a no-deal, this isn't looking good for Brexit.

On the plus side, two of those Libdem MP's have indicated they WILL vote for the deal.

 

[northwichcat]

On the plus side, two of those Libdem MP's have indicated they WILL vote for the deal.

Who's the second one? Stephen Lloyd's name is all over newspaper articles and Twitter but I can't find a mention of the other one.

 

[WelshBluebird]

a 3 way vote is an apalling idea.
we had a leave EU vote, and decided leave
the fcuk up the gov have made of brexit does not invalidate that
the decision is leave and WTO, or Mays withdrawal agreement, which doesn't seem popular.
If Mays WA does not get through parliament, then there is no legal mechanism to remain. Its WTO next year. European Union (Withdrawal) act says so.

Leave won the referendum yes, but we have literally no idea how many people wanted something like May's deal, or something more like the EEA, or to crash out with no deal. We do not know.
How on earth can you call a new vote a terrible idea but accept that we don't know what type of agreement we should have?

 

[Howardh]

Who's the second one? Stephen Lloyd's name is all over newspaper articles and Twitter but I can't find a mention of the other one.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156337393653025&set=p.10156337393653025&type=3&theater (Tweet from Andrew Adonis MP) the other is "un-named".

That'll be Vince, then??

 

[furnessvale]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156337393653025&set=p.10156337393653025&type=3&theater (Tweet from Andrew Adonis MP) the other is "un-named".

That'll be Vince, then??

Andrew Adonis is a Lord not an MP. He also believes freight should be removed from the railways and put on huge road convoys. I called him out on this so he has blocked me on Twitter!

 

[Howardh]

Andrew Adonis is a Lord not an MP.

True - my bad!

 

[dosxuk]

If Mays WA does not get through parliament, then there is no legal mechanism to remain. Its WTO next year. European Union (Withdrawal) act says so.

That Act also says we can't have a border between NI and Ireland, which isn't compatible with a no deal / WTO departure.

And no, Ireland aren't interested in leaving the EU to help you out.

do you really think the EU will impose Visa restriction on UK citizens going to EU countries?

Yes, if we crash out into a no-deal situation. A no deal situation = not having a deal (duh!). An agreement (deal) on immigration and visas would need to be in place before the EU could waive visa requirements for visitors.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

The North East were given a vote on something that was simply extra levels of burocracy rather than real devolution with the same sort of powers that Scotland (or even London) had, and they rejected it. This rejection has been taken ever after by the opponents of devolution as a rejection of devolution itself. (Rather like the way the opponenets of electoral reform argue that we've all had the chance to vote on electoral reform and we rejected it, whereas the option to vote for a genuine proportional system has never been put before us.)

no, actually the North East were given the option of an elected regional assembly to replace an unelected quango... there would've been no extra layers of beaurocracy

 

[Mvann]

Well it looks like Spain have reservations about the deal. France not happy about the fishing rights either.

 

[AlterEgo]

Spain have threatened to try to reclaim sovereignty over Gibraltar, which is ironic and funny.

 

[Mag_seven]

Spain have threatened to try to reclaim sovereignty over Gibraltar, which is ironic and funny.

"Taking back control".

 

[Ken H]

Spain have threatened to try to reclaim sovereignty over Gibraltar, which is ironic and funny.

which will fall foul of UN declarations on self determination. Gibraltans have comprehensively voted to remain non Spanish

No-one asks Spain about Cueta and Mellila

 

[Spamcan81]

People also seem to not give a stuff about the Good friday Agtreement with I and others (who grew up in NI during the tail end of the troubles) voted for and the whole brexit is in danger of making everything I and others voted for, invalid. As long as the brexit people get what they want who cares about anyone else. Boils my blood.

No deal that causes one more drop of blood to be spilled over the Irish question is worth the paper it's written on but sadly that risk seems of no consequence to Brexiteers.

 

[greyman42]

So we a vote to relegate the least-wanted one out and vote again on the better fo the final two options.
Be fascinating if the first vote went
No Deal 0%
Remain 50%
Leave 50%
then it had to go to penalties....

We have already had the vote. The majority voted for leave. There is the majority.

 

[Basher]

Millions have already exercised that right at some point in their lives. You obviously think it is acceptable to destroy my future.

I think your being selfish, yo

which will fall foul of UN declarations on self determination. Gibraltans have comprehensively voted to remain non Spanish

No-one asks Spain about Cueta and Mellila

Hear hear!

 

[najaB]

No-one asks Spain about Cueta and Mellila

Which EU member disputes Spanish sovereignty over Cueta and/or Mellila?

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Which EU member disputes Spanish sovereignty over Cueta and/or Mellila?

I think you're missing the point... Spain are always carping on about us owning Gibraltar without the merest hint of irony that they have exactly the same situation on the N African coast.... if they had other countries demanding those areas back would they roll over and just hand the land back? I think not...

 

[najaB]

I think you're missing the point... Spain are always carping on about us owning Gibraltar without the merest hint of irony that they have exactly the same situation on the N African coast.... if they had other countries demanding those areas back would they roll over and just hand the land back? I think not...

And we own The Falklands and don't give them back to Argentina. All former colonial powers have foreign holdings that are disputed.

Cueta and Mellia don't factor into Brexit.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

And we own The Falklands and don't give them back to Argentina. All former colonial powers have foreign holdings that are disputed.

Cueta and Mellia don't factor into Brexit.

Nor does Gibraltar.... we have sovereignty... recognised by the UN so Spain can, quite honestly, take a long walk off of a short pier... perhaps they should concentrate more on trying to keep hold of the land they already have.... honestly why would they even think Gibraltarians would want to become part of Spain when even large parts of Spain don't want to be ruled by Madrid?

 

[najaB]

Nor does Gibraltar.... we have sovereignty... recognised by the UN so Spain can, quite honestly, take a long walk off of a short pier.

I don't think the current Spanish position is directly about sovereignty, but rather about the status of the border between Gibraltar and Spain. At the moment there's free movement of EU nationals and goods by virtue of both countries being EU members.

There's no guarantee that will continue post-Brexit. So, with respect, Gibraltar *is* a factor in Brexit.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

I don't think the current Spanish position is directly about sovereignty, but rather about the status of the border between Gibraltar and Spain. At the moment there's free movement of EU nationals and goods by virtue of both countries being EU members.

There's no guarantee that will continue post-Brexit. So, with respect, Gibraltar *is* a factor in Brexit.

and with respect Gibraltar is NOT part of the EU in the same way that the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands aren't... they are all Crown Dependancies and NOT part of the UK

 

[radamfi]

and with respect Gibraltar is NOT part of the EU in the same way that the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands aren't... they are all Crown Dependancies and NOT part of the UK

Gibraltar voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU.

 

[507021]

and with respect Gibraltar is NOT part of the EU in the same way that the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands aren't... they are all Crown Dependancies and NOT part of the UK

Gibraltar is in the European Union. Why would they have been included in the referendum if they weren't?

Also, Gibraltar is an Overseas Territory, not a Crown Dependency.