EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[northwichcat]

Interesting thing is, I thought you had to update your photo on your driving licence every ten years.
But I passed my test 2 months before the expiry of my provisional, and my licence is now apparently valid for another ten years.
So I will have a nearly 20 year old photo on it.

That's changed then. My first full licence expired 10 years after the issuing date of my provisional licence - I seem to recall I had to hand the provisional one to the examiner after passing the test and then a full one got sent to me in the post.

 

[HSTEd]

I also had to turn my provisional licence over to the examiner - but the new one has appeared with an expiry date is in 2027.

 

[fowler9]

I believe that the new blue passports are going to be produced in Germany or France! Yay, taking back control. I also believe that the Croatian passport isn't that Burgundy colour so we were never forced to have a different colour anyway. Still, it got the Daily Mail foaming anyway.

 

[dcsprior]

My feelings are conflicted about the blue passport announcement.

My initial feeling was that the only people who wanted blue passports were those on the nutter fringe of brexiteers, so the government had lost the few marbles it had if it decided to do this.

My more considered feeling is that the government has recently taken some steps towards a soft brexit* (thankfully!) and realised it needed to keep some hardliners on-side, and so threw them a bone that was symbolic but insignificant. If things like this are the quid-pro-quo for avoiding a hard brexit, I'll gladly accept them.

* perhaps this has even been the plan the whole time - maybe May's incompetence in negotiations was actually a clever ploy to make anything other than the softest possible brexit unpalatable even to leavers. **

** I don't think this was the case, I think it was far more likely genuine incompetence. However if someone wanted to make a mess of it on purpose, I can't imagine how it would've looked different

 

[Howardh]

Well I'm surprised it's not been mentioned, but the plan that's been all over the papers to employ (is "employ" the word?) volunteer border security guards who don't have the power of arrest to watch over the ports of the UK after Brexit.
I thought that one reasonable excuse for Brexit was the influx of cheap EU labour bringing wages down overall. Now seems to be that Brexit wants labourers - sorry, volunteers, to do demanding and difficult work for, er, no wages at all.
Work that one out.
To me if a job's worth doing then they should be paid properly for it. Same applies to "special constables" and so on. As for these border guards, if we can't afford to pay them after Brexit (which clearly we can't) when they will be needed due to the increased workload, then don't Brexit.

 

[najaB]

Well I'm surprised it's not been mentioned, but the plan that's been all over the papers to employ (is "employ" the word?) volunteer border security guards who don't have the power of arrest to watch over the ports of the UK after Brexit.

Sounds a lot like the Minutemen Project in the USA, and that worked out well.

 

[fowler9]

Well I'm surprised it's not been mentioned, but the plan that's been all over the papers to employ (is "employ" the word?) volunteer border security guards who don't have the power of arrest to watch over the ports of the UK after Brexit.
I thought that one reasonable excuse for Brexit was the influx of cheap EU labour bringing wages down overall. Now seems to be that Brexit wants labourers - sorry, volunteers, to do demanding and difficult work for, er, no wages at all.
Work that one out.
To me if a job's worth doing then they should be paid properly for it. Same applies to "special constables" and so on. As for these border guards, if we can't afford to pay them after Brexit (which clearly we can't) when they will be needed due to the increased workload, then don't Brexit.

Our neo liberal leaders never had any intention of paying "Good hard working brits" any more money than they pay the allegedly lazy eastern europeans. The good hard working brits just won't be able to move to wherever to do the badly paid jobs.

 

[Groningen]

One still have to pay those volunteers. There is a huge difference between USA - Mexico and Ireland - Northern Ireland situation. Those 2 borderissues can not be compared.

 

[AM9]

Well I'm surprised it's not been mentioned, but the plan that's been all over the papers to employ (is "employ" the word?) volunteer border security guards who don't have the power of arrest to watch over the ports of the UK after Brexit.
I thought that one reasonable excuse for Brexit was the influx of cheap EU labour bringing wages down overall. Now seems to be that Brexit wants labourers - sorry, volunteers, to do demanding and difficult work for, er, no wages at all.
Work that one out.
To me if a job's worth doing then they should be paid properly for it. Same applies to "special constables" and so on. As for these border guards, if we can't afford to pay them after Brexit (which clearly we can't) when they will be needed due to the increased workload, then don't Brexit.

Some of the EU ports of entry are hotbeds of anti-EU (or anybody not in 'their' image as truely British) extremists, so they would relish the chance to be official vigilante 'defenders of the realm', even if they didnt get paid for it. Maybe Britain first or the EDL could offer their services. They are well organised complete with dodgy salutes.

 

[fowler9]

One still have to pay those volunteers. There is a huge difference between USA - Mexico and Ireland - Northern Ireland situation. Those 2 borderissues can not be compared.

Yeah, the USA get most of their drugs through Mexico, we don't get most of ours through the Republic of Ireland.

 

[birchesgreen]

Won't work, patrol times will clash with their drinking hours in Wetherspoons.

 

[zuriblue]

Won't work, patrol times will clash with their drinking hours in Wetherspoons.

Also quite a few of them are indisposed following the ruck in Dover the year before last. About 80-90 EDL and associated group members were sent down following that, quite a few of them are still inside. Most of the ones that are out wouldn’t pass disclosure.

 

[EM2]

On TV this morning, Nigel Farage has said that he is beginning to think that there should be a second referendum on EU membership, as he thinks that the vote to Leave would be considerably bigger.

EDIT: link to the video clip - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...t-stuff-video-ukip-maybe-leader-a8153106.html

Nigel Farage has said it may be time to hold a second referendum on Brexit to put an end to the “moaning” of politicians who have not accepted the previous vote.

The ex-Ukip leader argued that leading political figures who have been arguing against Brexit would “never, ever, ever” stop fighting it and so the best way to draw a line under the issue could be a second public vote.

Mr Farage is seen as one the architect of Brexit and has been the most vociferous critic of people like ex-prime minister Tony Blairand Andrew Adonis who have suggested it could be undone.

Speaking on Channel 5’s The Wright Stuff, Mr Farage: “What is for certain is that the Cleggs, the Blairs, the Adonises will never, ever, ever give up.

“They will go on whinging and whining and moaning all the way through this process.

“So maybe – just maybe – I’m reaching the point of thinking that we should have a second referendum on EU membership.”

Until now, all supporters of Brexiteers have unanimously rejected the idea of a further vote saying that it would be a betrayal of “the will of the people”, as set out in the 2016 referendum.

But with the Article 50 process already underway, opponents have been pressing for a rethink of Brexit and arguing that the public should have another chance to vote on it once the terms of withdrawal are clear.

Mr Farage went on: “If we had a second referendum on EU membership, we’d kill it off for a generation.

“The percentage that would vote to leave next time, would be very much bigger than it was last time round and we may just finish the whole thing off.”

Mr Blair recently re-issued a call for the public to be given another say on Brexit, while calling on his party and Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn to oppose it outright.

That was followed up by a call from Lord Adonis in an interview with The Independent for Labour to back a second referendum.

 

[nlogax]

He may be deluded on that score. If there was an opportunity to wipe that Stonehenge-toothed smile from his face then I'd take it for that reason alone.

However, I do also have a sneaking suspicion is the UK has had it up to -here- with referendums and associated fallout. I wonder how much that would skew any vote? Are Leavers and Remainers equally sick of this stuff?

 

[Howardh]

On TV this morning, Nigel Farage has said that he is beginning to think that there should be a second referendum on EU membership, as he thinks that the vote to Leave would be considerably bigger.

Nope, he's just begun to realise his cushy little MEP number is disappearing down the drain. He didn't want Leave to win...what, turkey voting for Christmas? But now they have he's beginning to panic and wants his job back, and he's now picking a time when Brexit looks toxic and would never get through a second vote.
Mind you, he's not the only Brexiter hypocrite; look at them all queuing up for the job as PM after the referendum...they couldn't run away fast enough.
Brexit is like the libdems promising the earth, they can if they don't get into power. But by sheer accident Brexit won...so now they have to deliver and they can't.

 

[AlterEgo]

One still have to pay those volunteers. There is a huge difference between USA - Mexico and Ireland - Northern Ireland situation. Those 2 borderissues can not be compared.

This volunteer scheme wasn’t mooted to watch the Irish border.

It’s to (potentially) staff and bolster much smaller ports and airports in Britain.

 

[AM9]

This volunteer scheme wasn’t mooted to watch the Irish border.

It’s to (potentially) staff and bolster much smaller ports and airports in Britain.

Well anybody wishing to transgress whatever customs restrictions or immigration rules that can be put in place after next March, would consider entering the UK at a port relying on these amateurs.

 

[AlterEgo]

Well anybody wishing to transgress whatever customs restrictions or immigration rules that can be put in place after next March, would consider entering the UK at a port relying on these amateurs.

Oh it’s a bonkers idea alright! We can agree on that.

 

[Howardh]

Well anybody wishing to transgress whatever customs restrictions or immigration rules that can be put in place after next March, would consider entering the UK at a port relying on these amateurs.

Or an Irish Republic port and get the bus into the UK unchecked.

 

[47802]

He may be deluded on that score. If there was an opportunity to wipe that Stonehenge-toothed smile from his face then I'd take it for that reason alone.

However, I do also have a sneaking suspicion is the UK has had it up to -here- with referendums and associated fallout. I wonder how much that would skew any vote? Are Leavers and Remainers equally sick of this stuff?

Well I doubt another referendum will happen, I'm also not convinced the result would change, I voted reluctant remain, because of the potential economic damage, but if we can eventually get a deal out of the EU which doesn't cause too much economic damage then I would vote leave.

 

[bramling]

Well I doubt another referendum will happen, I'm also not convinced the result would change, I voted reluctant remain, because of the potential economic damage, but if we can eventually get a deal out of the EU which doesn't cause too much economic damage then I would vote leave.

I don't know any leave voters who say they have changed their mind. By contrast I know a fair few remain voters who would have liked to leave but felt it was less of a risk to stay, and who now feel the risk was overstated. No doubt much would rest on people who didn't vote in 2016 for whatever reason. I still have a feeling leave would win - Britain has always been at best a reluctant member of the EU.

 

[dcsprior]

I don't think the result would change either.

The rhetoric since the vote has led to most people's positions becoming even more entrenched so few people will change there mind - but a few will:
* Presumably the remain campaign a 2nd time would be better (it could hardly be worse!), trying to highlight positives of staying instead of focussing solely on negatives of leaving, and talking about some areas other than just the economic impact.
* Also there'd be some yiung voters who were ineligible to vote last time, who're statistically more likely to be remainers than those who voted last time but are sadly no longer with us.
*Howeve I think these two factors will be balanced out by some remainers feeling that revisiting it so soon is failing to respect the first vote and therefore voting leave on principle (I have a friend who voted remain and wishes the country had too, but who'd vote leave in a rerun for this reason) and some others being sick to the back teeth of it and staying at home.

I voted remain but would not want another in/out referendum now. I would have liked a a "what type of 'leave' would you like" referendum, and I wouldn't object to a "this is the type of 'leave' we've managed to negotiate it, do you want this or would you rather remain" one

 

[Busaholic]

That's changed then. My first full licence expired 10 years after the issuing date of my provisional licence - I seem to recall I had to hand the provisional one to the examiner after passing the test and then a full one got sent to me in the post.

Interesting thing is, I thought you had to update your photo on your driving licence every ten years.
But I passed my test 2 months before the expiry of my provisional, and my licence is now apparently valid for another ten years.
So I will have a nearly 20 year old photo on it.

My licence. issued in 1988 when I last moved, has no photo and is completely valid. When I reach 70 within a few months I'll probably have to supply a photo. I think I'll grow a beard specially!

 

[Howardh]

Think any in/out vote shoudl wait until 18 months after we've been out. If it's a bad deal and people like us - ie not politicians or newspaper editors - are finding in reality that they can't travel to the Eu without extra bureaucracy, their driving licence isn't as valid as they thought, they can't take their pet to their holiday villa like they could, their EHIC card is useless, they can't bring back unlimited amounts of cheap duty-paid booze etc, they are queuing for hours at Palma instead of walking right through, they have to pay taxes to import stuff on ebay - they have to pay taxes to export stuff on ebay - their daughter at uni wants to work in the EU in summer but can't.....when reality hits home then there's not a chance of Brexit winning.

HOWEVER - if deals are done, and we can carry on in 2020 just as we did in 2015 and nothing changes for us on the ground, then fine, I'll vote for that. But if nothing's changed, then, er, why leave??

 

[AM9]

Think any in/out vote shoudl wait until 18 months after we've been out. If it's a bad deal and people like us - ie not politicians or newspaper editors - are finding in reality that they can't travel to the Eu without extra bureaucracy, their driving licence isn't as valid as they thought, they can't take their pet to their holiday villa like they could, their EHIC card is useless, they can't bring back unlimited amounts of cheap duty-paid booze etc, they are queuing for hours at Palma instead of walking right through, they have to pay taxes to import stuff on ebay - they have to pay taxes to export stuff on ebay - their daughter at uni wants to work in the EU in summer but can't.....when reality hits home then there's not a chance of Brexit winning.

HOWEVER - if deals are done, and we can carry on in 2020 just as we did in 2015 and nothing changes for us on the ground, then fine, I'll vote for that. But if nothing's changed, then, er, why leave??

It's strange that most of the things that you mention that may change when the UK leaves the EU are to do with border and travel restrictions yet you don't seem concerned with rising prices, unemployment, shortage of trained workers for key jobs etc., which will affect you far more than holidays and cheap alcohol.

 

[Howardh]

It's strange that most of the things that you mention that may change when the UK leaves the EU are to do with border and travel restrictions yet you don't seem concerned with rising prices, unemployment, shortage of trained workers for key jobs etc., which will affect you far more than holidays and cheap alcohol.

I'm thinking of the greater British population than myself. I'm certainly not a white-van-man from Surrey who can pop over every weekend to fill up. My immediate concerns - as well as the travel ones - are the shortage of EU workers coming over here to fill the gaps. The care agency that supports me r/e my mum are desperate, not helped by a couple of EU nationals returning home. Also rising prices will be an issue especially if food is dearer, but my list is the tangible ones which the British will see as a problem caused by leaving the EU rather than rising prices, uneployment, loss of worker's rights etc which could be blamed on anything.
But, we've got control, it will be good to paint those bendy bananas blue and use them as our passport. Just such a shame we will have to pay to add the ETIAS form to it and wait for clearance.

 

[fowler9]

It's strange that most of the things that you mention that may change when the UK leaves the EU are to do with border and travel restrictions yet you don't seem concerned with rising prices, unemployment, shortage of trained workers for key jobs etc., which will affect you far more than holidays and cheap alcohol.

Not sure most of the people who voted leave thought about them either.

 

[AM9]

I'm thinking of the greater British population than myself. I'm certainly not a white-van-man from Surrey who can pop over every weekend to fill up. My immediate concerns - as well as the travel ones - are the shortage of EU workers coming over here to fill the gaps. The care agency that supports me r/e my mum are desperate, not helped by a couple of EU nationals returning home. Also rising prices will be an issue especially if food is dearer, but my list is the tangible ones which the British will see as a problem caused by leaving the EU rather than rising prices, uneployment, loss of worker's rights etc which could be blamed on anything.
But, we've got control, it will be good to paint those bendy bananas blue and use them as our passport. Just such a shame we will have to pay to add the ETIAS form to it and wait for clearance.

The demographic that Fowler9 refers to who voted for leave, seemingly without thinking it through I suppose would need a year or two to experience deprivation before they started recognising what the experts have tried to tell them since before they voted. Not much else seems to get through.

 

[birchesgreen]

I doubt it, they will blame the "traitors and saboteurs" who ruined their chance to reach utopia. They'll be out to give people like me a kicking.

 

[AM9]

I doubt it, they will blame the "traitors and saboteurs" who ruined their chance to reach utopia. They'll be out to give people like me a kicking.

At first yes but when they feel some of the effects, somebody will break rank as in The Emperor's New Clothes.