EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[AM9]

I thought the time to be worried about the post-brexit scenario was when the country was entering into a reasoned factual debate about the likelihood of outcomes before the referendum.

Instead, we are condemned to watch the predicted decline of our economic position happen in front of our eyes. The brexiteers are still complaining about the OBR predictions because they don't align with their own wishful thinking/flawed propaganda.

 

[miami]

Instead, we are condemned to watch the predicted decline of our economic position happen in front of our eyes. The brexiteers are still complaining about the OBR predictions because they don't align with their own wishful thinking/flawed propaganda.

I see Farage is in the process of fleeing. What's the process for removing an MEP from position when he lives on a different continent and never turns up?

 

[zuriblue]

I see Farage is in the process of fleeing. What's the process for removing an MEP from position when he lives on a different continent and never turns up?

Is there one? I know that if a counciller doesn't turn up to meetings for 6 months they can be removed and a byelection called but I don't think that a similar mechanism applies to MEPs. In any case Farage probably does turn up but only to sign for his expenses.

 

[AM9]

Is there one? I know that if a counciller doesn't turn up to meetings for 6 months they can be removed and a byelection called but I don't think that a similar mechanism applies to MEPs. In any case Farage probably does turn up but only to sign for his expenses.

Probably a price worth paying to keep the bigot away from the serious stuff going on in Brussels/Strasbourg. He, like UKIP, is a busted flush. The next election should see the end of him.

 

[Johnuk123]

Instead, we are condemned to watch the predicted decline of our economic position happen in front of our eyes. The brexiteers are still complaining about the OBR predictions because they don't align with their own wishful thinking/flawed propaganda.

Do you think that might be because that failed organisation has an appalling record on forecasts and are rapidly becoming a complete and utter joke.

 

[AM9]

Do you think that might be because that failed organisation has an appalling record on forecasts and are rapidly becoming a complete and utter joke.

No. .

 

[Johnuk123]

No. .

Are you saying the organisation has a good record of forecasting ?

 

[LateThanNever]

Are you saying the organisation has a good record of forecasting ?

Very mixed - but of course economic forecasting is not a science so can only ever be a best guess!

 

[dosxuk]

Are you saying the organisation has a good record of forecasting ?

The problem is their poor record is because they tend to err on the optimistic side. Claiming we should ignore them because they're often wrong is a bit silly in this case, because based on their track record, things will be worse than they've suggested.

 

[AM9]

The problem is their poor record is because they tend to err on the optimistic side. Claiming we should ignore them because they're often wrong is a bit silly in this case, because based on their track record, things will be worse than they've suggested.

I agree, - in fact the leaver Redwood was complaining yesterday about their 'doing the UK down' when he was talking about their median prediction of £59m. He carefully avoided mentioning that the worst-case projection was for nearly £200M deficit over the same period. Still I'm optimistic because the £350M that we won't be giving to the EU fat cats will clear that in 168 weeks so by June 2022, it will all be cleared.
We can all be deliriously happy by then, providing that the NHS still exists.

 

[anme]

Is there one? I know that if a counciller doesn't turn up to meetings for 6 months they can be removed and a byelection called but I don't think that a similar mechanism applies to MEPs. In any case Farage probably does turn up but only to sign for his expenses.

I wouldn't worry too much about Farage. Just be happy you're not him.
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Interesting idea floating around Brussels - https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-citizenship-after-brexit-says-top-negotiator

Might be a good solution for everyone. Can anyone explain why leaver MPs seem to hate it so much?

 

[burneside]

I wouldn't worry too much about Farage. Just be happy you're not him.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Interesting idea floating around Brussels - https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-citizenship-after-brexit-says-top-negotiator

Might be a good solution for everyone. Can anyone explain why leaver MPs seem to hate it so much?

I can't see what benefits people would get from paying their voluntary EU tax, apart from possibly joining a smaller queue at passport control.

 

[EM2]

I can't see what benefits people would get from paying their voluntary EU tax, apart from possibly joining a smaller queue at passport control.

Free healthcare when in any other EU country and freedom to work anywhere in the EU just for starters.

 

[NSEFAN]

I can't see what benefits people would get from paying their voluntary EU tax, apart from possibly joining a smaller queue at passport control.

The ability to just turn up and work and live in any EU nation? That may not be important to you but it's important to a lot of people, both the younger generations looking for work and the older generations looking to retire somewhere a bit warmer.

 

[AlterEgo]

A lot of people are unaware that they only need one grandparent born on the island of Ireland then you are entitled to become a citizen of the Republic of Ireland, which is an EU state.

If you have a parent born on the island of Ireland, then you are automatically a citizen and don't need to apply.

Might save you a few bob.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...izenship_through_birth_or_descent.html#l091af

 

[burneside]

The healthcare benefit is a bit dubious, there have been many reports that, in Spain in particular, it often isn't recognised and people are forced to produce a credit card to obtain care. It has always been advised that proper healthcare insurance is taken out even when visiting EU countries. As no figure has been given for what this tax might be it could prove to be expensive way to secure your future FoM rights.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The healthcare benefit is a bit dubious, there have been many reports that, in Spain in particular, it often isn't recognised and people are forced to produce a credit card to obtain care. It has always been advised that proper healthcare insurance is taken out even when visiting EU countries. As no figure has been given for what this tax might be it could prove to be expensive way to secure your future FoM rights.

I am pleased that someone recognises the benefit of full healthcare insurance, despite the premium costs involved, when travelling abroad.

 

[gareth950]

Interesting idea floating around Brussels - https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-citizenship-after-brexit-says-top-negotiator

Might be a good solution for everyone. Can anyone explain why leaver MPs seem to hate it so much?

Because leave MPs want to drag EVERYONE in the country kicking and screaming OUT of the EU no matter what and take the WHOLE country back to the 1930s with them? No exceptions for ANYONE, no matter what the consequences.

 

[burneside]

Because leave MPs want to drag EVERYONE in the country kicking and screaming OUT of the EU no matter what and take the WHOLE country back to the 1930s with them? No exceptions for ANYONE, no matter what the consequences.

This proposal was instigated by a single MEP, and one MP has passed comment on it. The chances of it being passed by the EU parliament are virtually zero. I think you are being rather hysterical.

 

[gareth950]

This proposal was instigated by a single MEP, and one MP has passed comment on it. The chances of it being passed by the EU parliament are virtually zero. I think you are being rather hysterical.

I'm only imitating the outrage coming out of the right wing press and Farage at any attempts to stop us having a full on hard brexit with no going back.

 

[47802]

Because leave MPs want to drag EVERYONE in the country kicking and screaming OUT of the EU no matter what and take the WHOLE country back to the 1930s with them? No exceptions for ANYONE, no matter what the consequences.

I would like to see something like that for those that want it, after all we are EU citizens at present, should it automatically follow that we should loose our right to be an EU citizen because our country of birth has chosen to leave?


I would certainly be interested in that, plus anything which potentially P*** off the Brexitors is fine by me.

 

[furnessvale]

I would like to see something like that for those that want it, after all we are EU citizens at present, should it automatically follow that we should loose our right to be an EU citizen because our country of birth has chosen to leave?


I would certainly be interested in that, plus anything which potentially P*** off the Brexitors is fine by me.

Younger people who were born as EU citizens may have a point.

On the other hand, I was born in a UK that wasn't even in the EEC, let alone forcibly bestowing me with EU citizenship.

As for p***ing off Brexiters, carry on. Anyone who wishes to sign up as a potential conscript to the EU army is welcome to it.

 

[AlterEgo]

As for p***ing off Brexiters, carry on. Anyone who wishes to sign up as a potential conscript to the EU army is welcome to it.

There is no such thing as an "EU Army" and what you're confusing it with wouldn't conscript people.

It's a defence Union just like NATO, only proposed, not a separate armed service.

 

[47802]

Younger people who were born as EU citizens may have a point.

On the other hand, I was born in a UK that wasn't even in the EEC, let alone forcibly bestowing me with EU citizenship.

As for p***ing off Brexiters, carry on. Anyone who wishes to sign up as a potential conscript to the EU army is welcome to it.

At 55 I'm probably a bit too old to join the EU army

 

[Railops]

I would like to see something like that for those that want it, after all we are EU citizens at present, should it automatically follow that we should loose our right to be an EU citizen because our country of birth has chosen to leave?


I would certainly be interested in that, plus anything which potentially P*** off the Brexitors is fine by me.

And people wonder why the remainers get stick for being unable to accept the result and spending 5 months in a sulk.

 

[burneside]

I would like to see something like that for those that want it, after all we are EU citizens at present, should it automatically follow that we should loose our right to be an EU citizen because our country of birth has chosen to leave?


I would certainly be interested in that, plus anything which potentially P*** off the Brexitors is fine by me.

I don't understand why the proposal is getting this MP so upset, or why you think it might "p*** off" Brexiters. The associate membership, if it ever happens, will have zero validity or benefit in the UK so affects nobody. It would be interesting to see how many of the 16 million Remain voters actually put their money where their mouth is should it come to pass.

 

[Railops]

I don't understand why the proposal is getting this MP so upset, or why you think it might "p*** off" Brexiters. The associate membership, if it ever happens, will have zero validity or benefit in the UK so affects nobody. It would be interesting to see how many of the 16 million Remain voters actually put their money where their mouth is should it come to pass.

Well apparently they're all going to become Irish so won't need to.

 

[47802]

And people wonder why the remainers get stick for being unable to accept the result and spending 5 months in a sulk.

Who says I haven't accepted the result, but it doesn't mean I have to like it and will continue to attack the arguments of the Brexitors.

I believe some people are trying to get Irish passports, unfortunately not an option to me, if I can have an option to move freely within Europe without having to get a visa that could be useful to me.

Up to a couple of years ago I worked for a European company, I used to travel to Europe for meetings and work in European offices of my company for short periods, such things could be a right pain in the arse for business in future depending what arrangements we end up with.
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I don't understand why the proposal is getting this MP so upset, or why you think it might "p*** off" Brexiters. The associate membership, if it ever happens, will have zero validity or benefit in the UK so affects nobody. It would be interesting to see how many of the 16 million Remain voters actually put their money where their mouth is should it come to pass.

Well obviously it will depend on the cost and what benefit it offers but providing its reasonable I think quite a lot would go for it.

I also think the anti level of some Brexitors is frankly lunacy.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Younger people who were born as EU citizens may have a point.

On the other hand, I was born in a UK that wasn't even in the EEC, let alone forcibly bestowing me with EU citizenship.

There is a difference though. The EU citizenship that you were given requires nothing from you. You have always been completely free to ignore it and never use it - if that's what you wished - same as with any other of the various rights that you'll have been given during your lifetime. Language such as 'forcibly bestowing' hardly seems appropriate in that situation.

On the other hand, forcibly removing EU citizenship from people does impact many people's lives in a real way - most obviously restricting where they are allowed to live, work and study. I'm guessing that you had no intention of moving to Europe, so that doesn't affect you, but for many people it's life-changing: For some, it'll destroy their dreams of working, studying or retiring in the place that they wished to. For others, it may prevent them from easily being able to see or their partners or members of their families - or even to remain living with their partners. For others (those already abroad), it may actually force them to leave their homes, and for those already studying abroad too, it may prevent them from remaining in the towns and countries that have become their homes. (All that depends of course on what settlement the UK Government actually comes to, regarding free movement).

I do find it somewhat concerning that, as far as I've been able to tell from your posts, you appear not to see any problem with destroying other people's lives in this way (Apologies if I'm mistaken and that's not what you think, but that does seem to be the impression given by your posts).

 

[furnessvale]

I do find it somewhat concerning that, as far as I've been able to tell from your posts, you appear not to see any problem with destroying other people's lives in this way (Apologies if I'm mistaken and that's not what you think, but that does seem to be the impression given by your posts).

I post in one or two places about Brexit so, without reading back in this thread, I have said that if others want this EU citizenship they can have it, no problem.

I genuinely believe there is no altruistic motive from the EU in this, simply a (failed) attempt to divide the UK population on this matter.

I also genuinely believe that people have to be careful in such things. True, at the moment there is no EU army but it is proposed. Even then the likelihood of an EU war is slim, and conscription even slimmer, but things change over time, even the political complexion of the EU. Currently it is leaning leftwards but in 10 years it may lean to the right.