EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[radamfi]

That is not within the gift of the British Government but would have to be agreed with the EU. Uncertainty restored.

I can't see there being a problem as the EU want freedom of movement to the UK and don't want to lose it.

To how many? Only a tiny fraction of a single percentage point will probably ever want to work in another EU country.

You've already seen a number of people on this thread who dearly want to hold on to freedom of movement. There are also a lot of people who dream of retiring to France and Spain in particular.

 

[Howardh]

I can't see there being a problem as the EU want freedom of movement to the UK and don't want to lose it.

You've already seen a number of people on this thread who dearly want to hold on to freedom of movement. There are also a lot of people who dream of retiring to France and Spain in particular.

Indeed. I'm nearing retirement, and have saved all my life with the intention of buying a small retirement flat here in the UK and a small apartment/flat in Spain, probably Ibiza/Formentera with Minorca as the alternative. A nice little earner too if I rented it out, but that's not the primary reason.
Brexit - although it hasn't exactly scuppered my plans - has made me put everything on hold. What will the bureaucracy be like? Health care arrangements? Tax if I did rent out...etc etc.
Wouldn't mind so much if we knew exactly what we were heading for - but we don't, and UK migrants (in and out) will be the last on the government's list of worries.

Another point is, with the £ decreasing in value, and the uncertainty over health care - I would imagine a large % of UK citizens already retiring in the EU may return, and as they are likely to be elderly they will add strain to the NHS and require housing - more strain on that.

These are unforseen circumstances that need to be factored in. It's OK trying to keep 20,000 migrants out per year, but what if 50,000 come home?

 

[anme]

She could also just go to Parliament and ask for a motion approving triggering the Brexit process. If she made it a motion of confidence Labour would fall over themselves in the rush to ensure there was not a general election at the moment. Win win situation for Mrs M. she either gets permission to start the Brexit process, or can go to the country saying that those nasty Labour Party MP's are trying to impede the will of the people by blocking Brexit. Then come back with a larger majority, claim the backing of the people and trigger Brexit.

I'm not convinced that's true. If she presents Labour as the party of "remain", they might do very well. After all, 48.1% of the electorate voted "remain", and that's more than any single party has achieved in a general election since the 1950's. It's MUCH more than the 36.9% who voted for the current government, which didn't have any of this hard brexit nonsense in their manifesto and yet are still trying to impose it on the UK, despite even a change of prime minister.

The brexit vote will be split between the conservatives and UKIP which will work out very badly for them given the UK's hugely undemocratic electoral system, and of course a fair number of the "leave" voters will have died or become too incapacitated to vote since the referendum which should move things further towards "remain". This may be the real reason Ms May doesn't call an election.

 

[Trog]

I can't see there being a problem as the EU want freedom of movement to the UK and don't want to lose it.

You said that the UK Government could announce immediately that it intends to keep freedom of movement and stay in the single market. All I was pointing out was that that would be meaningless as that choice is only 50% the UK governments to make. If they did say that I bet some EU mandarin would pop up looking all affronted to say Yah Boo only if we say so.

If the EU want to keep freedom of movement you get them to buy that right by making a balancing concession from the UK's wish list. You don't just give them it up front, in the hope that they will be so grateful that they will then give the UK something out of the goodness of their hearts.

 

[Domh245]

I'm not convinced that's true. If she presents Labour as the party of "remain", they might do very well. After all, 48.1% of the electorate voted "remain", and that's more than any single party has achieved in a general election since the 1950's. It's MUCH more than the 36.9% who voted for the current government, which didn't have any of this hard brexit nonsense in their manifesto and yet are still trying to impose it on the UK, despite even a change of prime minister.

Corbyn has mostly been in favour of Brexit since the vote ("we must respect the people's decision" etc) albeit on the condition of remaining in the single market. The Lib Dems are the least pro-brexit party, but I fear that a lot of student voters who would be inclined to vote against Brexit, might find it difficult to vote for them, so probably won't do anything about it...

 

[Trog]

I'm not convinced that's true. If she presents Labour as the party of "remain", they might do very well. After all, 48.1% of the electorate voted "remain", and that's more than any single party has achieved in a general election since the 1950's. It's MUCH more than the 36.9% who voted for the current government, which didn't have any of this hard brexit nonsense in their manifesto and yet are still trying to impose it on the UK, despite even a change of prime minister.

The brexit vote will be split between the conservatives and UKIP which will work out very badly for them given the UK's hugely undemocratic electoral system, and of course a fair number of the "leave" voters will have died or become too incapacitated to vote since the referendum which should move things further towards "remain". This may be the real reason Ms May doesn't call an election.

No chance, add the pressure and media attention of an election and Jeremy Corbin will not be able to keep his foot out of his mouth. Labour will also be billed not as the party of reasoned remain, but the party who brought down a government trying to carryout the democratically expressed will of the people for their own selfish factional ends.

The change in Prime Minister is irrelevant as under the British system of government almost anyone who has the confidence/backing of the largest grouping of MP's can be Prime Minister. You do not have to be elected to the post or even be a member of the House of Commons although that is usual these days.

 

[yorksrob]

No. The British Isles are part of the European continent. .

They're not.

The continent of Europe is a land mass and we're not part of it. The last ice age doesn't enter into it.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I am scared by the UK today.

Just out of interest what is your nationality? Other than the noise from our popular Bonfire Night celebrations on Saturday night why on earth does the UK scare you? There's a popular saying in our country 'Don't be a big girls blouse'.

 

[Howardh]

"Scared of being in the UK?"

I'm petrified. Saved up all my life, my investments are in the banks and as shares. I'm depending on the state for two of my three pensions (state/council) and as back up the house.

All that's been thrown into a pot and none of us have a clue as to whether the pot will grow, stay put or disappear over a very high cliff.

 

[EM2]

Just out of interest what is your nationality? Other than the noise from our popular Bonfire Night celebrations on Saturday night why on earth does the UK scare you? There's a popular saying in our country 'Don't be a big girls blouse'.

I'm British, I'm nearly fifty years old, and to be honest, large parts of what's going on bloody terrify me.
An MP murdered in the street, vicious cuts to the benefits for the most needy, mainstream media publishing scare stories that wouldn't look out of place in a fascist dictatorship, large percentages of the population being vilified for things that are in absolutely no way anything to do with them, disgusting attacks on people that just happen to not be from here and a Government that seems happy to let it all happen.
What have we become?

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They're not.

The continent of Europe is a land mass and we're not part of it. The last ice age doesn't enter into it.

So what continent does the UK belong to then? 'Cos I'm pretty sure it ain't Africa.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I'm British, I'm nearly fifty years old, and to be honest, large parts of what's going on bloody terrify me.
An MP murdered in the street, vicious cuts to the benefits for the most needy, mainstream media publishing scare stories that wouldn't look out of place in a fascist dictatorship, large percentages of the population being vilified for things that are in absolutely no way anything to do with them, disgusting attacks on people that just happen to not be from here and a Government that seems happy to let it all happen.
What have we become?

I've been a member of the Labour Party for over 30 years and as a result seldom leap to the defence of the Conservative Party. However... The Government was certainly not happy to see Jo Cox murdered and neither is it happy to see Poles and other immigrants beaten up and murdered on our streets. We also have to accept the need for a free press even if we don't always agree with what they print.

In terms of benefit cuts yes the Government needs to be challenged and has indeed backed down on some of its proposals and all of this is because we have a democracy. There is much work to be done and I don't believe that Jeremy Corbyn has the skills to be able to call the Government to account but that is not the fault of the Government.
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"Scared of being in the UK?"

I'm petrified. Saved up all my life, my investments are in the banks and as shares. I'm depending on the state for two of my three pensions (state/council) and as back up the house.

All that's been thrown into a pot and none of us have a clue as to whether the pot will grow, stay put or disappear over a very high cliff.

In all fairness, as you are probably aware the stock market has been performing very well, although of course much of this is linked to the weak Pound. And for what its worth whatever you have saved in the bank is absolutely safe as it's protected by the Government. And assuming that your pension funds are linked to the stock market (which as I previously said is performing very well) your pension fund should be performing very well at the moment.

 

[EM2]

I've been a member of the Labour Party for over 30 years and as a result seldom leap to the defence of the Conservative Party. However... The Government was certainly not happy to see Jo Cox murdered and neither is it happy to see Poles and other immigrants beaten up and murdered on our streets. We also have to accept the need for a free press even if we don't always agree with what they print.

They are happy to not bring in an independent press regulator, one that could rein in the worst excesses of these vile rags that foment these anti-immigration, anti-justice views. What hope is there when the chair of the press's self-regulatory Editors' Code of Practice Committee is the editor of the Daily Mail?
Did you see the Attorney General's statement defending the impartiality of the judiciary? Three senior judges called 'enemies of the people' for upholding the law, their decision called 'the day democracy died', and Liz Truss says not a word condemning it.

In terms of benefit cuts yes the Government needs to be challenged and has indeed backed down on some of its proposals and all of this is because we have a democracy. There is much work to be done and I don't believe that Jeremy Corbyn has the skills to be able to call the Government to account but that is not the fault of the Government.

Corbyn has nothing to do with it. What has happened to the British people that they are happy to vote a party into Government that takes away from those who already have little, that need our help and support, and that any of us could find ourselves in that situation?
Job Centre sanctions. Bedroom tax. Dehumanising 'fit for work' assessments. Universal credit. £23k benefit cap. Disgusting, iniquitous policies that no Government that wishes to be thought of as moral and civilised should wish to inflict on any of its citizens.
And to be honest, that's what probably scares me more than anything.

 

[Abpj17]

To how many? Only a tiny fraction of a single percentage point will probably ever want to work in another EU country.

Statistically, that's utter nonsense. Over a million UK nationals live outside the UK in the EU.

https://fullfact.org/europe/how-many-uk-citizens-live-other-eu-countries/

Your "experience" of Europe sounded tragic as well. How can you base your opinion on nearly 30 countries and a population of over 600mn based on what sounds like a day trip to a town in the north of France? There are pockets of the UK that I'm sure tourists would take a similar opinion from.

Someone also asked whether the EU would be taking a vote on negotiating positions...

At a simplistic level, there is nothing to negotiate. Certain benefits and costs are associated with membership - there are already set out in treaties and stuff. Part of the UK population declared it didn't want to be a member. Exiting means no longer covering those costs, but also losing those benefits.

Under the bonnet it's a little more complex, various EEA/Swiss arrangements with the EU are already defined for a set of countries. Usually along the lines of 'some of the benefits, some of the costs, but no control/influence over the detail'.

But the clock is set at 2 years post article 50...so the simple case is we lose the benefits and costs. For trade, that means reverting back to WTO. It potentially means back to a visa-based travel system..unless negotiations complete within the 2 yrs.

Beyond that it's a black box. As Wallonia is blocking a trade agreement with Canada, I'd assume it is more than possible that there may be national/regional referendums on a trading/other agreement with the UK.

 

[LAX54]

Statistically, that's utter nonsense. Over a million UK nationals live outside the UK in the EU.

https://fullfact.org/europe/how-many-uk-citizens-live-other-eu-countries/

Your "experience" of Europe sounded tragic as well. How can you base your opinion on nearly 30 countries and a population of over 600mn based on what sounds like a day trip to a town in the north of France? There are pockets of the UK that I'm sure tourists would take a similar opinion from.

Someone also asked whether the EU would be taking a vote on negotiating positions...

At a simplistic level, there is nothing to negotiate. Certain benefits and costs are associated with membership - there are already set out in treaties and stuff. Part of the UK population declared it didn't want to be a member. Exiting means no longer covering those costs, but also losing those benefits.

Under the bonnet it's a little more complex, various EEA/Swiss arrangements with the EU are already defined for a set of countries. Usually along the lines of 'some of the benefits, some of the costs, but no control/influence over the detail'.

But the clock is set at 2 years post article 50...so the simple case is we lose the benefits and costs. For trade, that means reverting back to WTO. It potentially means back to a visa-based travel system..unless negotiations complete within the 2 yrs.

Beyond that it's a black box. As Wallonia is blocking a trade agreement with Canada, I'd assume it is more than possible that there may be national/regional referendums on a trading/other agreement with the UK.

DID we have Visa travel before joining the EEC, which then without asking turned into the EU ! I recall going on holidays in the late 60's to France and Spain, and all had were those time limited passports you bought at the P.O, which stopped when we joined the EU, as for the exchnage rate, true its not too good at the mo, but certainly not the worst i remeber going to Holland must have been 10 years ago now, 99p to the Euro ! (even worse at the Port!)

 

[EM2]

DID we have Visa travel before joining the EEC, which then without asking turned into the EU !

What we had then doesn't mean that that's what we'll get in the future.

I recall going on holidays in the late 60's to France and Spain, and all had were those time limited passports you bought at the P.O, which stopped when we joined the EU

They certainly didn't, as a friend joined me on a trip to France on a one-year passport in 1989, and they were still available for a few years after that.

 

[Senex]

Corbyn has mostly been in favour of Brexit since the vote ("we must respect the people's decision" etc) albeit on the condition of remaining in the single market. The Lib Dems are the least pro-brexit party, but I fear that a lot of student voters who would be inclined to vote against Brexit, might find it difficult to vote for them, so probably won't do anything about it...

Might the young people, having seen what their failure to come out and vote last time did to us, be much more inclined to come out and vote for a pro-Remain party next time?
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"Scared of being in the UK?"

I'm petrified. Saved up all my life, my investments are in the banks and as shares. I'm depending on the state for two of my three pensions (state/council) and as back up the house.

All that's been thrown into a pot and none of us have a clue as to whether the pot will grow, stay put or disappear over a very high cliff.

Well put!

 

[Trog]

Statistically, that's utter nonsense. Over a million UK nationals live outside the UK in the EU.

https://fullfact.org/europe/how-many-uk-citizens-live-other-eu-countries/

More than I thought but I said work and you have given the stats for live. I also note that the top two countries making up about half the total are Spain a big retirement destination so probably a high proportion of live v work, and Ireland which is something of a special case as movement between us and them is also covered by older bi-lateral arrangements. The third country France is also a retirement destination, although perhaps not on the same scale as Spain. So I think it is still probable that the number of Brits working in the EU is still less than 1%.

Your "experience" of Europe sounded tragic as well. How can you base your opinion on nearly 30 countries and a population of over 600mn based on what sounds like a day trip to a town in the north of France? There are pockets of the UK that I'm sure tourists would take a similar opinion from.

Sorry I should have added a smiley for the hard of humour.

 

[furnessvale]

Indeed. I'm nearing retirement, and have saved all my life with the intention of buying a small retirement flat here in the UK and a small apartment/flat in Spain, probably Ibiza/Formentera with Minorca as the alternative. A nice little earner too if I rented it out, but that's not the primary reason.
Brexit - although it hasn't exactly scuppered my plans - has made me put everything on hold. What will the bureaucracy be like? Health care arrangements? Tax if I did rent out...etc etc.
Wouldn't mind so much if we knew exactly what we were heading for - but we don't, and UK migrants (in and out) will be the last on the government's list of worries.

Another point is, with the £ decreasing in value, and the uncertainty over health care - I would imagine a large % of UK citizens already retiring in the EU may return, and as they are likely to be elderly they will add strain to the NHS and require housing - more strain on that.

These are unforseen circumstances that need to be factored in. It's OK trying to keep 20,000 migrants out per year, but what if 50,000 come home?

So your reaction to Brexit and its uncertainties has been to put on hold your plans to invest, and thereafter to spend a good slice of your income, in another EU country?

Multiply that by the thousands in the UK considering the same, add in the hundreds of thousands who have already done it, and you have simply added to the reasons why the EU needs to talk sensibly about Brexit rather than issuing threats.

 

[anme]

They're not.

The continent of Europe is a land mass and we're not part of it. The last ice age doesn't enter into it.

Wow! I've only heard this "Britain is not part of Europe" belief from a member of the BNP before and that was back in the 1990's. I'm not going to discuss further the fact that you're totally wrong, but I would like to ask why you choose to hold such a laughable belief? What is it about Europe that you hate or fear so much?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Just out of interest what is your nationality? Other than the noise from our popular Bonfire Night celebrations on Saturday night why on earth does the UK scare you? There's a popular saying in our country 'Don't be a big girls blouse'.

Looking at the thread discussion on the involvement of Parliament, shall we not forget exactly what was the incident that was thwarted which led to the current Bonfire Night fireworks "nuisance" with some of the large ones having an excessively loud decibel count, being imposed by "The supermarket Houses of Mammon", who looking at the exorbitant prices they charge that are shown in TV advertisements for "costumes" to celebrate yet another matter of a few days adrift, a most strangely worrying dark non-Christian festival, see yet another money-making lucrative scheme that television brainwashed children will demand from their parents.

How are mothers supposed to manage, as these demands will see less money available to spend on the television bingo games, that appear on more and more television advertisements...:roll:

Thankfully, living a couple of miles away from the village in our rural setting, the fireworks sound effects were much diminished at home.

 

[anme]

So your reaction to Brexit and its uncertainties has been to put on hold your plans to invest, and thereafter to spend a good slice of your income, in another EU country?

Multiply that by the thousands in the UK considering the same, add in the hundreds of thousands who have already done it, and you have simply added to the reasons why the EU needs to talk sensibly about Brexit rather than issuing threats.

No. You need to *think* about this. There are also many businesses and individuals abroad who invest in the UK. In fact, the UK has been extremely successful in attracting foreign investment thanks to its position in the single market. That's likely to fall very very substantially now, and it's hugely more significant that a few UK pensioners buying cheap houses in Spain so they can go over there and enjoy the (taxpayer funded) free healthcare in the sun.

The UK is in a terrible negotiating position. The rest of the EU is rubbing their hands about the prospect of that foreign investment going to them instead. As I wrote above, but you seem to have missed:
"I think you're over-estimating the importance of brexit to the rest of Europe. The EU has far more important matters to deal with and brexit is an unwelcome distraction, but no more than a distraction. I expect the other EU members to look after their own individual and collective interests, in the same way the UK has decided to. I work a bit with regional development agencies in other EU countries and I can tell you they get happier and happier every time one of the brexit morons - May, Fox, Davis and Johnson - open their mouths. They are very confident of winning much of the foreign investment that currently goes to the UK and would like to see the hardest brexit possible. May's speech to the Tory party conference where she bashed international trade and insulted everyone who's not a mindless nationalist moron made them almost dance with glee."

Edit: check out this report, which shows just how idiotic a hard brexit (or, in fact, leaving the EU at all) is for the UK: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...investment-report-2014-to-2015-online-viewing
Quote: " am very pleased that these results show that almost 85,000 new jobs were created by FDI projects recorded in 2014/15 - and that independent reports confirm that the UK created more jobs through FDI than any other country in Europe."
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Just out of interest what is your nationality? Other than the noise from our popular Bonfire Night celebrations on Saturday night why on earth does the UK scare you? There's a popular saying in our country 'Don't be a big girls blouse'.

What difference does my nationality make to you? Are only some human beings allowed to have an opinion, depending on where they were born?

This is what scares me about the UK.

 

[Senex]

May writes in the Telegraph: “Parliament voted to put the decision about our membership of the EU in the hands of the British people. The people made their choice, and did so decisively. It is the responsibility of the government to get on with the job and to carry out their instruction in full.”

Yet paragraph 107 of the Appeal Court judgement reads: "Further, the 2015 Referendum Act was passed against a background including a clear briefing paper to parliamentarians explaining that the referendum would have advisory effect only. Moreover, Parliament must have appreciated that the referendum was intended only to be advisory as the result of a vote in the referendum in favour of leaving the European Union would inevitably leave for future decision many important questions relating to the legal implementation of withdrawal from the European Union."

May was one of the parliamentarians who voted for the Referendum Bill, so did she not read the "clear briefing paper" telling her that a referendum "would have advisory effect only"?

The second half of paragraph 107 seems self-evident.

 

[furnessvale]

No. You need to *think* about this. There are also many businesses and individuals abroad who invest in the UK. In fact, the UK has been extremely successful in attracting foreign investment thanks to its position in the single market. That's likely to fall very very substantially now.

The UK is in a terrible negotiating position. The rest of the EU is rubbing their hands about the prospect of that foreign investment going to them instead. As I wrote above, but you seem to have missed:
"I think you're over-estimating the importance of brexit to the rest of Europe. The EU has far more important matters to deal with and brexit is an unwelcome distraction, but no more than a distraction. I expect the other EU members to look after their own individual and collective interests, in the same way the UK has decided to. I work a bit with regional development agencies in other EU countries and I can tell you they get happier and happier every time one of the brexit morons - May, Fox, Davis and Johnson - open their mouths. They are very confident of winning much of the foreign investment that currently goes to the UK and would like to see the hardest brexit possible. May's speech to the Tory party conference where she bashed international trade and insulted everyone who's not a mindless nationalist moron made them almost dance with glee."

Edit: check out this report, which shows just how idiotic a hard brexit (or, in fact, leaving the EU at all) is for the UK: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...investment-report-2014-to-2015-online-viewing
Quote: " am very pleased that these results show that almost 85,000 new jobs were created by FDI projects recorded in 2014/15 - and that independent reports confirm that the UK created more jobs through FDI than any other country in Europe."

On the contrary, you need to think about it and read what I said.

I made no reference to any other effects of Brexit, supposed or real. I simply referred to one person's reaction to Brexit and its potential affect.

I am well aware there are pros and cons to the Brexit argument, although some, on both sides seems to believe, from their point of view, it is only pro/con, remain/leave (strike out as appropriate).

The question for each of us has always been, do the pros outweigh the cons whichever way one voted?

 

[anme]

On the contrary, you need to think about it and read what I said.

I made no reference to any other effects of Brexit, supposed or real. I simply referred to one person's reaction to Brexit and its potential affect.

I am well aware there are pros and cons to the Brexit argument, although some, on both sides seems to believe, from their point of view, it is only pro/con, remain/leave (strike out as appropriate).

You wrote "Multiply that by the thousands in the UK considering the same, add in the hundreds of thousands who have already done it, and you have simply added to the reasons why the EU needs to talk sensibly about Brexit rather than issuing threats."

I wrote that that is utter nonsense. Maybe you would like to read my reply and actually address the points that I made.

Also, what threats has the EU been issuing? Please provide references.

The question for each of us has always been, do the pros outweigh the cons whichever way one voted?

No that's not the question. That was the question and the British people came up with a wrong, idiotic answer in the referendum. But that was the answer. Now we have to make the best of it. Why is no-one interested in discussing that?!

 

[Trog]

What difference does my nationality make to you? Are only some human beings allowed to have an opinion, depending on where they were born?

Myself I am just wondering out of a mixture of idle curiosity, and wondering if there could be an element of national hypocrisy given your near racist remarks about the British.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Myself I am just wondering out of a mixture of idle curiosity, and wondering if there could be an element of national hypocrisy given your near racist remarks about the British.

It does amaze me how some people are very sensitive to say that someone has been racist towards them, but are perfectly happy to ignore it when Brits direct it towards others... See the way that lots of Leavers say "stop tarring us all with the same brush" instead of ensuring that their own house is in order by condemning the sizeable chunk of their camp who are xenophobic and racist.

 

[anme]

Myself I am just wondering out of a mixture of idle curiosity, and wondering if there could be an element of national hypocrisy given your near racist remarks about the British.

It's none of your business. Please focus on the discussion itself rather than allowing yourself to be distracted by whether participants qualify to take part based on genetic or geographical criteria.

My point remains this - if people voted to leave the EU without thinking about what they wanted instead, then they are stupid. That's a conditional statement - I'm not actually calling anyone stupid. I'm sure you're not stupid and you fully agree with me.

The thing that mystifies me why you and others are not prepared to *say* what you want to happen now. Instead you leave it to the metropolitan elite who have never presented their plans at a general election or a referendum. Maybe you can explain?

Edit: I'm sure no-one here needs it, but in case you have to explain to a child, you might like to check out this summary of some possible brexit options - http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...s-freedom-movement-choices-take-a7367896.html

 

[Howardh]

Read there's to be a "march" in London on the 23rd November by the Brexit side aghast at the court's ruling.

So that means people who wanted Britain to regain it's sovereignty and total independence of the courts will be demonstrating against Britain regaining it's sovereignty and total independence of the courts.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

DID we have Visa travel before joining the EEC, which then without asking turned into the EU ! I recall going on holidays in the late 60's to France and Spain, and all had were those time limited passports you bought at the P.O, which stopped when we joined the EU, as for the exchnage rate, true its not too good at the mo, but certainly not the worst i remeber going to Holland must have been 10 years ago now, 99p to the Euro ! (even worse at the Port!)

The bit I've bolded is wrong - both factually and in its implication of blaming the EU. The one-year passport (the British Visitor's Passport) was discontinued on 1 Jan 1996; we joined the then EEC in 1973 - 23 years earlier! As far as I can tell, discontinuing the BVP had nothing to do with the EU, but was because it didn't meet modern security standards.

This quote from someone on yahoo is a bit exaggerated but sums up the point rather poetically:

I never had a (12 month) British visitors passport myself although I remember mum & dad having one. I'm not surprised they were phased out. Any tom dick or harry could have forged one with ease on their kitchen table with a piece of card and pack of crayons. It wasn't a very sophisticated document. If I remember correctly you could have one issued on the day at a main post office with minimal identity and security checks.

It'd be nice if we could debate the EU without people continually implying that the EU is responsible for all sorts of (allegedly) bad things that are actually nothing to do with the EU.

 

[Howardh]

The bit I've bolded is wrong - both factually and in its implication of blaming the EU. The one-year passport (the British Visitor's Passport) was discontinued on 1 Jan 1996; we joined the then EEC in 1973 - 23 years earlier! As far as I can tell, discontinuing the BVP had nothing to do with the EU, but was because it didn't meet modern security standards.

This quote from someone on yahoo is a bit exaggerated but sums up the point rather poetically:



It'd be nice if we could debate the EU without people continually implying that the EU is responsible for all sorts of (allegedly) bad things that are actually nothing to do with the EU.

R/e Passports; if memory serves in the 1980's my old man and lady had a day trip to France using their driving licences as *passports* - they were caravanning in the south of the UK and fancied a day trip. Add to that the licences didn't even have photographs.

Can anyone confirm that in those years ID was all that was required - or is my memory playing - what's the word - ??