EU Rail data conference

[enginedin]

I know this is pretty niche, but the EU are holding a conference on how semantic (i.e. open) data can be better used within "railways": https://www.era.europa.eu/content/rail-data-forum-2024

It'd be interesting to see the kind of papers that come out of this conference, and whether there's anything that UK-based researchers can lobby the Department for Transport / Train Operating Companies for to improve tools, or access to data to create new tools. What I don't really understand is how the openness of UK data, leading to things like traintimes.org.uk and realtimetrains compares to the rest of Europe

 

[ainsworth74]

It'd be interesting to see the kind of papers that come out of this conference, and whether there's anything that UK-based researchers can lobby the Department for Transport / Train Operating Companies for to improve tools, or access to data to create new tools. What I don't really understand is how the openness of UK data, leading to things like traintimes.org.uk and realtimetrains compares to the rest of Europe

As far as I'm aware it's not a question of what we can learn from them, but what they can learn from us! One of the few things that I think the DfT/ORR (or whoever is behind it) has gotten right is that there is a lot of open data available. For instance, to my knowledge, no-one else has things like brfares.com exposing the minutia of the fares data, or the various mapping services which have signal maps up to and including live signal aspects.

 

[enginedin]

no-one else has things like brfares.com exposing the minutia of the fares data

arguably because no other EU Country has such a complicated fare system that they need that amount of open data

 

[ainsworth74]

arguably because no other EU Country has such a complicated fare system that they need that amount of open data

Sure that's perhaps part of it but I don't think that a) simplicty is an argument to conceal the data (unless its so simple you only have two fares, a single and a return!) nor b) can argue that when it comes to open data its European railways that in general seem to be behind us! What's the near constant refrain on here? "Is there an equivalent of RTT in country x?"

 

[najaB]

As far as I'm aware it's not a question of what we can learn from them, but what they can learn from us!

I dare say that there are still things that we can learn from them - there's always thing to learn, even if it's just what not to do!

 

[bahnause]

Not in the EU, but SBB offers a lot of open data to the public. Rolling stock, ticket machines, station equipment, opening times, graphic timetables and more. Including guidelines for the API. If you need it, you can get the coordinates for every single stopping point board on the SBB network.

Open Data Portal

 

[Fragezeichnen]

Sure that's perhaps part of it but I don't think that a) simplicty is an argument to conceal the data (unless its so simple you only have two fares, a single and a return!) nor b) can argue that when it comes to open data its European railways that in general seem to be behind us! What's the near constant refrain on here? "Is there an equivalent of RTT in country x?"

For better or worse, the UK is the only country which has completely torn down their incumbent state rail operator. Amongst companies like SNCF or DB "it's our railway and we'll decide what you deserve to know about it" is the dominant attitude.
Whatever they might say for marketing purposes, they lobby with all their might against any attempt to introduce integration and data sharing. After all, it benefits say DB as the incumbent quasi-monopoly, if DB is the only site that you can book DB tickets at the best price, and the only place you can find out if your train is running on time.

In an ideal world the EU would mandate that every railway transport operator must:

• publish up to date machine-readable timetable data for via a common platform which can be accessed by anyone
• allow any third party to book tickets via an programming interface including all discounts and special offers available on the operator's own site

There is nothing about this that wouldn't benefit the consumer. But it's not likely happen. Supposedly the front runner for next EU Transport Comissioner comes from an Island with no railways...

 

[bahnause]

For better or worse, the UK is the only country which has completely torn down their incumbent state rail operator. Amongst companies like SNCF or DB "it's our railway and we'll decide what you deserve to know about it" is the dominant attitude.
Whatever they might say for marketing purposes, they lobby with all their might against any attempt to introduce integration and data sharing. After all, it benefits say DB as the incumbent quasi-monopoly, if DB is the only site that you can book DB tickets at the best price, and the only place you can find out if your train is running on time.

DB has an API for Real Time Information and does allow third party agencies to sell DB Tickets.

 

[SargeNpton]

In an ideal world the EU would mandate that every railway transport operator must:

• publish up to date machine-readable timetable data for via a common platform which can be accessed by anyone
• allow any third party to book tickets via an programming interface including all discounts and special offers available on the operator's own site

There is nothing about this that wouldn't benefit the consumer. But it's not likely happen. Supposedly the front runner for next EU Transport Comissioner comes from an Island with no railways...

For that first one a database called MERITS already exists, owned by UIC (see link below). It falls down on the stated aim though as not all countries provide information to it.

MERITS database – UIC - International union of railways

MERITS (Multiple East-West Railways Integrated Timetable Storage) is a database, owned by UIC, containing the integrated timetable data of many European countries, comprising a few hundred railway…

uic.org

 

[takno]

For that first one a database called MERITS already exists, owned by UIC (see link below). It falls down on the stated aim though as not all countries provide information to it.

MERITS database – UIC - International union of railways

MERITS (Multiple East-West Railways Integrated Timetable Storage) is a database, owned by UIC, containing the integrated timetable data of many European countries, comprising a few hundred railway…

uic.org

I suspect that a more important way it falls down is by having a €50k fee to access the data. That's not exactly accessible by anyone.

 

[SargeNpton]

I suspect that a more important way it falls down is by having a €50k fee to access the data. That's not exactly accessible by anyone.

Well, the common dataset is there, accessible by all the contributing rail operators and by all of the major online retailers. That it's not Open Data in the strict sense of the word is the drawback - but it's a UIC initiative not the EU.