EU, Immigration and UKIP

[Antman]

No it's not. You think Rochester is "overpopulated". How many people would need to be booted out before it stops being "overpopulated"? 100? 1000? 1,000,000? Everyone?

It depends on a whole range of issues, housing availability, transport provision, road networks etc etc, every area is different and it's up to the people that live there to decide whether it is overpopulated or not. I have no particular opinion on Rochester, I don't know the area well enough, but last nights result suggests that a lot of residents do feel the area is overpopulated.

 

[AM9]

It depends on a whole range of issues, housing availability, transport provision, road networks etc etc, every area is different and it's up to the people that live there to decide whether it is overpopulated or not. I have no particular opinion on Rochester, I don't know the area well enough, but last nights result suggests that a lot of residents do feel the area is overpopulated.

Probably influenced by who is being asked and the type of 'other residents' that they see around the area.

 

[EM2]

I have no particular opinion on Rochester, I don't know the area well enough, but last nights result suggests that a lot of residents do feel the area is overpopulated.

Change 'Rochester' in the question to 'Thanet' then.

 

[Butts]

I note despite the vast publicity generated by The Rochester By Election the Turnout was only just over 50%.

Whatever the outcome this was a sad day for Democracy

 

[gordonthemoron]

actually 50% is quite good for a byelection

 

[Butts]

actually 50% is quite good for a byelection

Well it shouldn't be - it's disgraceful particularly when you consider the importance of this particular contest.

 

[Tetchytyke]

it's disgraceful particularly when you consider the importance of this particular contest.

What importance?

I know the media are having a big circle-jerk about it and how it proves UKIP has "arrived". But really it changes nothing. It doesn't change the Government, the coalition will carry on as before. This election has no importance whatsoever.

Despite all the publicity, turnout was down by almost a quarter on the 2010 election.

 

[Butts]

What importance?
I know the media are having a big circle-jerk about it and how it proves UKIP has "arrived". But really it changes nothing. It doesn't change the Government, the coalition will carry on as before. This election has no importance whatsoever.

Despite all the publicity, turnout was down by almost a quarter on the 2010 election.

Electing a Member of Parliament.

 

[ExRes]

Despite all the publicity, turnout was down by almost a quarter on the 2010 election.

And that figure from 2010 underlines that people in this country get exactly what they deserve, 64.9% is disgraceful although, I assume, those other 35.1% won't have complained about anything at all since then

As I said earlier, even when the 'whole country' was supposedly up in arms at the way Maggie Thatcher was running things, over 20% of the electorate sat at home and couldn't be bothered to vote

 

[Butts]

And that figure from 2010 underlines that people in this country get exactly what they deserve, 64.9% is disgraceful although, I assume, those other 35.1% won't have complained about anything at all since then

As I said earlier, even when the 'whole country' was supposedly up in arms at the way Maggie Thatcher was running things, over 20% of the electorate sat at home and couldn't be bothered to vote

The whole country was not up in arms or she would not have won 3 General Elections in a row

Certain elements were, but insufficient to boot her out.

 

[ExRes]

The whole country was not up in arms or she would not have won 3 General Elections in a row

Certain elements were, but insufficient to boot her out.

That's what always makes me laugh, try finding someone with the balls to say "yes, I think Maggie was a good PM", if you can then you've done well, all this 'coming out of the closet' lark must be nothing compared to admitting to being a Maggie supporter

 

[Antman]

That's what always makes me laugh, try finding someone with the balls to say "yes, I think Maggie was a good PM", if you can then you've done well, all this 'coming out of the closet' lark must be nothing compared to admitting to being a Maggie supporter

I have actually heard a few people say that, or something similar and they're from a working class background. I don't entirely agree with them but I don't think she was that bad, look at the state the country was in before she came into office

 

[TheJRB]

Well it shouldn't be - it's disgraceful particularly when you consider the importance of this particular contest.

What importance?

I know the media are having a big circle-jerk about it and how it proves UKIP has "arrived". But really it changes nothing. It doesn't change the Government, the coalition will carry on as before. This election has no importance whatsoever.

Despite all the publicity, turnout was down by almost a quarter on the 2010 election.

I agree the result of this byelection is only the re-election of an MP but I personally always find it disappointing that people show so little regard for politics. I may be as far away from being a UKIP supporter as is possible, but I have to agree with Mark Reckless in what he said about taking a fair and democratic political society for granted. It is our responsibility to vote and something we should do if nothing else as out of respect for those who have fought to keep our political system as democratic as it can realistically be. 50% is sadly a low number and far from what it should be.

Now in another respect, it will be interesting to see what the other ~15% of people who are likely to vote in Rochester & Strood in May will do. Reckless's majority is far from big enough to guarantee re-election in a few months time.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

That's what always makes me laugh, try finding someone with the balls to say "yes, I think Maggie was a good PM", if you can then you've done well, all this 'coming out of the closet' lark must be nothing compared to admitting to being a Maggie supporter

If only 'Not the Nine O'clock News' was still going, I imagine there'd be quite a good idea for a sketch in there...

 

[EM2]

That's what always makes me laugh, try finding someone with the balls to say "yes, I think Maggie was a good PM", if you can then you've done well, all this 'coming out of the closet' lark must be nothing compared to admitting to being a Maggie supporter

Go to any Conservative safe seat in Hampshire, Surrey or Kent and you'll find plenty.

 

[fowler9]

At the end of the day should we vote what we think is best for ourselves or what we think is best for the country? It all gets very complicated.

 

[ExRes]

Go to any Conservative safe seat in Hampshire, Surrey or Kent and you'll find plenty.

I also know a fair number of London and Home Counties residents who go purple, swear and spit a fair bit at the mention of her name

 

[RichmondCommu]

As a paid up Labour Party member I think it would be extremely foolish to simply dismiss the recent UKIP successes as being down to constituents voting for a popular MP.

I hate to say this but the working classes (including White Van Man) gave up on Labour a long time a go and for the most part have stopped voting. Until yesterday. I would suggest it was the Tory vote that stayed away yesterday rather than anything else.

 

[ainsworth74]

At the end of the day should we vote what we think is best for ourselves or what we think is best for the country? It all gets very complicated.

You should vote for who you want to represent your constituency in Parliament.

I find it somewhat worrying that the media are increasingly, it seems, trying to persuade people that in 2015 we'll be voting on who should be PM when in reality no-one in that election will be!

 

[Butts]

You should vote for who you want to represent your constituency in Parliament.

I find it somewhat worrying that the media are increasingly, it seems, trying to persuade people that in 2015 we'll be voting on who should be PM when in reality no-one in that election will be!

With the prospect of a "geek" assuming the Great Office of State are you surprised

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

You should vote for who you want to represent your constituency in Parliament.

I find it somewhat worrying that the media are increasingly, it seems, trying to persuade people that in 2015 we'll be voting on who should be PM when in reality no-one in that election will be!

I have felt that for sometime, it almost seems as if we have had a kind of presidential choice for quite a few elections, and the media, as you state, are whipping it up. I thought that the issue was especially prominent when Blair resigned and Brown took over, with many in the media calling for an immediate election because Brown hadn't a mandate.....but he had, as the elected leader of the Labour party who had won the 2005 election. The media didn't let up on this issue.

 

[Tetchytyke]

And that figure from 2010 underlines that people in this country get exactly what they deserve, 64.9% is disgraceful although, I assume, those other 35.1% won't have complained about anything at all since then

You fall into the trap, like too many politicos, of thinking that low turnout is the same as apathy.

What is the point of going to vote when every single option on the ballot paper is as odious as the last?

As for our voting system, the fact that each vote is split on a local level is a big barrier to engagement and turnout. I'd rather stab myself in the eyes with a fork than vote Conservative, yet the majority they hold in my area means my vote has no say on a national level. Where I used to live in Newcastle was the exact opposite, with Labour having a huge majority (and I wouldn't ever vote for them either). If you're a minority voter in a majority area you may as well stay at home, your vote makes absolutely no difference.

I care very much about my world and my country, but the options at the ballot paper are depressing. I still go and vote, but I don't blame people who don't. Bring in a "none of the above" option on the paper and you'll see turnout rise.

 

[Jonny]

Well, as for in or out then I can only really think of the benefit from the EU of free movement of goods making it harder to cream in the revenue from "treasure island". Free movement of people on the other hand is not quite good, exaggerating an already overheating residential accommodation situation as well as the embarrassing situation of drunks (who tend to be British) in the Mediterranean resorts.

This comes from the guy who regularly shops online across Europe (where it's cheaper) but hasn't exerted his right of free movement for over nine years.

 

[Butts]

You fall into the trap, like too many politicos, of thinking that low turnout is the same as apathy.

What is the point of going to vote when every single option on the ballot paper is as odious as the last?

As for our voting system, the fact that each vote is split on a local level is a big barrier to engagement and turnout. I'd rather stab myself in the eyes with a fork than vote Conservative, yet the majority they hold in my area means my vote has no say on a national level. Where I used to live in Newcastle was the exact opposite, with Labour having a huge majority (and I wouldn't ever vote for them either). If you're a minority voter in a majority area you may as well stay at home, your vote makes absolutely no difference.

I care very much about my world and my country, but the options at the ballot paper are depressing. I still go and vote, but I don't blame people who don't. Bring in a "none of the above" option on the paper and you'll see turnout rise.

What you need is a system like they have for the Scottish Parliamentary Elections. I vote Conservative in a largely Labour area but my vote goes towards the "top up list" where further MSP's are elected from.

 

[radamfi]

What you need is a system like they have for the Scottish Parliamentary Elections. I vote Conservative in a largely Labour area but my vote goes towards the "top up list" where further MSP's are elected from.

Your party is the biggest barrier against a proportional voting system for Westminster. Do they lobby for First Past the Post for the Scottish elections? Also, English council elections have the same problem.

 

[NSEFAN]

Perhaps moving to a system of actual coalitions (such as in Germany) is what's required, rather than the master/slave relationship we currently have in power.

 

[TheJRB]

You fall into the trap, like too many politicos, of thinking that low turnout is the same as apathy.

What is the point of going to vote when every single option on the ballot paper is as odious as the last?

As for our voting system, the fact that each vote is split on a local level is a big barrier to engagement and turnout. I'd rather stab myself in the eyes with a fork than vote Conservative, yet the majority they hold in my area means my vote has no say on a national level. Where I used to live in Newcastle was the exact opposite, with Labour having a huge majority (and I wouldn't ever vote for them either). If you're a minority voter in a majority area you may as well stay at home, your vote makes absolutely no difference.

I care very much about my world and my country, but the options at the ballot paper are depressing. I still go and vote, but I don't blame people who don't. Bring in a "none of the above" option on the paper and you'll see turnout rise.

I see your point but I, like you, will vote even though the fact that my local constituency is a safe seat for a party I wouldn't be inclined to vote for. FPTP clearly favours the large parties and it can be tempting to vote tactically (indeed I think I would vote Conservative to keep out UKIP if I had too).

Now as for the EU elections, it was much nicer to know that your individual vote had proper influence over the outcome of the local result. The criticism that the ballot paper was too complicated was utter rubbish. In fact it was easier than an FPTP vote as you just had to select a party; what could be simpler!

 

[AM9]

.... I care very much about my world and my country, but the options at the ballot paper are depressing. I still go and vote, but I don't blame people who don't. Bring in a "none of the above" option on the paper and you'll see turnout rise.

But we do have a 'none of the other' option on our ballot papers. Every voter is entitled to 'spoil' (as in render it invalid in the count of votes) their ballot paper if they choose, - it's their vote.
Now that may seem to be a waste of time. But in the UK, every spoilt paper is counted and the total number declared by the returning officer. Traditionally, spoiled ballot paper rates have been around the 3% mark, but more recently, there has been a notable increase in the number of intentionally spoiled papers. This clearly indicates that unlike those voters who were too lazy to go to the polling station, paper spoilers were prepared to use the opportunity to make a serious point.
If the number of spoilt papers rises significantly, the pressure for government to act will eventually become irresistable.

 

[Butts]

Your party is the biggest barrier against a proportional voting system for Westminster. Do they lobby for First Past the Post for the Scottish elections? Also, English council elections have the same problem.

I am not a "Party Clone" and I agree with you that they should support a fairer system for Westminster Elections. Whoever comes up with a good idea I don't automatically discount it due to it's source - be it Labour, Liberal , Tory , SNP or in the case of Plaid Cymru The Living Wage which I thoroughly endorse.

If more people were less tribal things would happen a lot faster.

 

[Oswyntail]

Surely the problem is not the voting system, but the fact that the chosen representatives do not represent their constituents. No amount of PR will change that. But if all votes in Parliament were "Free votes" (i.e abolish whipping), with who voted which way published, there would be a lot more pressure on the MPs to vote as their constituents required.