etickets to London Terminals

[Hadders]

I'm travelling from Stevenage to London tomorrow and have booked via Chiltern's website and selected an eticket. I selected Great Northern branded services between Stevenage and Kings Cross when I booked the tickets. The eticket has been issued from 'SVG' to 'KGX'. Had I have selected a paper ticket it would have been issued to 'London Terminals'.

As it happens this shouldn't be a problem for me tomorrow and I'm sure if I did take a Thameslink branded train to/from St Pancras there wouldn't be a problem. I'm not sure what would happen if I chose to travel to/from Moorgate or Liverpool Street which are also appropriate London Terminals.

Interestingly when I've booked etickets through my employers corporate travel provider (Capita) they are issued from 'SVG' to 'LON'. Why is an eticket for a journey from Stevenage to Kings Cross issued to 'KGX' by Chiltern and 'LON' by Capita? It doesn't happen with paper tickets so I'm unsure why it should happen with etickets.

Any views?

 

[alistairlees]

Incorrect implementation by the TIS provider for Chiltern.

 

[Hadders]

Incorrect implementation by the TIS provider for Chiltern.

I'm not surprised - it's not the best website....

 

[westv]

Do TOC eTickets work on the Kings X LU barriers the same as paper tickets?

 

[Haywain]

Do TOC eTickets work on the Kings X LU barriers the same as paper tickets?

No. They are not accepted by London Underground.

 

[fairlie]

I had this issue too and my journey involved arriving at one London Terminal and leaving from another (can't quite remember which two, I think Euston and Marylebone). It was fine but made me think I'd rather a paper ticket in future for London Terminals journeys.

 

[Paul Kelly]

I'm travelling from Stevenage to London tomorrow and have booked via Chiltern's website and selected an eticket. I selected Great Northern branded services between Stevenage and Kings Cross when I booked the tickets. The eticket has been issued from 'SVG' to 'KGX'. Had I have selected a paper ticket it would have been issued to 'London Terminals'.

Which fare was issued from SVG to KGX and which fare was it from SVG to LON? It might be relevant to diagnosing what the problem was.

 

[Hadders]

Which fare was issued from SVG to KGX and which fare was it from SVG to LON? It might be relevant to diagnosing what the problem was.

Anytime Day Return. Route ‘.’

The other interesting thing is that the Chiltern e-ticket gives the itinerary which to the uninitiated suggests that these are the trains I must use (they are GTR trains so we’re not talking compulsory reservations). The Capita version of the same ticket says ‘suggested itinerary)

 

[westv]

No. They are not accepted by London Underground.

You mean they are not accepted by the barriers? So you have to show it to a person?

 

[Hadders]

You mean they are not accepted by the barriers? So you have to show it to a person?

The paper tickets aren’t accepted by the barriers either and you have to ask to be let through manually if travelling to Moorgate.

I will have to try and use an e-ticket to Moorgate via Kings Cross St Pancras Underground.

 

[Wallsendmag]

No, eTicket ate not valid on TfL

 

[Paul Kelly]

Anytime Day Return. Route ‘.’

The other interesting thing is that the Chiltern e-ticket gives the itinerary which to the uninitiated suggests that these are the trains I must use (they are GTR trains so we’re not talking compulsory reservations). The Capita version of the same ticket says ‘suggested itinerary)

Thanks. I agree with what @alistairlees said above that it seems to be a bug in the ticket issuing system used by the Chiltern website, which I think is supplied by Silverrail (N.B. many other sites use Silverrail's journey planner, but I think only Chiltern uses their TIS).

 

[Hadders]

No, eTicket ate not valid on TfL

A ticket from Stevenage to London Terminals is valid on the Underground between Kings Cross and Moorgate. The medium on which the ticket is held should not matter.

I do suspect that the reality is a little different, but it shouldn’t be...

 

[alistairlees]

A ticket from Stevenage to London Terminals is valid on the Underground between Kings Cross and Moorgate. The medium on which the ticket is held should not matter.

I do suspect that the reality is a little different, but it shouldn’t be...

You could try it out for a bit of fun?

 

[Hadders]

I Probably will at some point!

 

[westv]

No, eTicket ate not valid on TfL

Are passengers buying tickets to Kings X told that before purchase?

 

[Wallsendmag]

Are passengers buying tickets to Kings X told that before purchase?

Is a ticket to Kings X valid on a tube?

 

[paul1609]

A ticket from Stevenage to London Terminals is valid on the Underground between Kings Cross and Moorgate. The medium on which the ticket is held should not matter.

I do suspect that the reality is a little different, but it shouldn’t be...

I think the medium thing only applies to national rail and that London Underground has no agreement at all to accept e tickets.

 

[Hadders]

There's a common gateline at Moorgate between the Underground and National Rail so could be an interesting conversation if were to board at Moorgate and travel to Kings Cross St Pancras.

 

[westv]

I think the medium thing only applies to national rail and that London Underground has no agreement at all to accept e tickets.

Where does it say that only paper tickets to Kings X are valid to Moorgate/Old Street?

 

[Wallsendmag]

Where does it say that only paper tickets to Kings X are valid to Moorgate/Old Street?

CCST Tickets to Kings Cross are not valid to Moorgate/Old Street. CCST tickets issued to London Terminals on a route into Kings Cross are though. A specific but important difference. LNER Advance are specifically priced toLondon Kings Cross rather than London Terminals.

 

[Hadders]

CCST Tickets to Kings Cross are not valid to Moorgate/Old Street. CCST tickets issued to London Terminals on a route into Kings Cross are though. A specific but important difference. LNER Advance are specifically priced toLondon Kings Cross rather than London Terminals.

But is an e-ticket from Stevenage to London Terminals valid on the Underground from Kings Cross to Moorgate? It certainly should be, and I doubt the relevant inter-available process specifically mentions that only CCST can be used. Such e-ticket would definitely be valid to Moorgate by changing at Finsbury Park and there is a common (LUL managed) gateline at Moorgate. Kings Cross Underground would be different by CCST tickets no longer work there and you have to be asked to be let through manually.

 

[paul1609]

But is an e-ticket from Stevenage to London Terminals valid on the Underground from Kings Cross to Moorgate? It certainly should be, and I doubt the relevant inter-available process specifically mentions that only CCST can be used. Such e-ticket would definitely be valid to Moorgate by changing at Finsbury Park and there is a common (LUL managed) gateline at Moorgate. Kings Cross Underground would be different by CCST tickets no longer work there and you have to be asked to be let through manually.

As an independent operator it's up to London Underground what national rail tickets they accept and they've made it pretty clear they don't accept national rail e tickets. Nothing in the national rail terms and conditions will override that if you want interavalability you can't use an e ticket. Its up to the retailer to make that clear.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Like this ?

 

[yorkie]

I also agree with @alistairlees .

To quote Roger Ford of Modern Railways in October 2005:

What counts is the message, not the medium

If your friendly local TOC wants proof of the validity of the [product] it is up to the managers to provide the [relevant] staff with readers

This still holds true today.

The validity is not altered in any way; if any train companies have incorrect information stated on their website, they should remove these. Any incorrect information posted on a website does not alter the legal / contractual position (I know this because I've had conversations with solicitors and barristers on this very subject!)

 

[mmh]

Like this ?
View attachment 83449

That's poor design. What is a barcode ticket? It wasn't in the choices offered to me. The warning should be attached to the ticket type it refers to, not hovering at the bottom attached to the box of unavailable options.

 

[westv]

CCST Tickets to Kings Cross are not valid to Moorgate/Old Street. CCST tickets issued to London Terminals on a route into Kings Cross are though. A specific but important difference. LNER Advance are specifically priced toLondon Kings Cross rather than London Terminals.

I meant someone travelling to Kings X.

 

[yorkie]

That's poor design. What is a barcode ticket? It wasn't in the choices offered to me. The warning should be attached to the ticket type it refers to, not hovering at the bottom attached to the box of unavailable options.

The warning is not lawful in my opinion; if the rail industry wishes to (or is required to) avoid a situation in which LU gateline staff are inspecting e-tickets, then they would need to avoid selling e-tickets for any journey that may pass through an LU gateline.

Once a ticket has been issued, the validity of the fare/product held on that ticket cannot be altered due to the medium, so if a particular medium is to be avoided at particular locations then the medium can be excluded as a fulfilment method for any relevant fares. Whether this is practicable or not, I have my doubts. Certainly at times disruption and scheduled engineering work it isn't.

LU are contractually required to honour valid fares, and cannot refuse to honour any fare that is valid. If they wish to complain about the medium in which any ticket has been issued, that is a rail industry dispute and of no concern to the customer.

Sadly the rail industry lacks knowledge of relevant areas of law. Sooner or later there's going to be a big case against a TOC and that may cause the entire industry to wake up. Until then, I fully expect the rail industry not to heed my warnings!

 

[Starmill]

That's poor design. What is a barcode ticket? It wasn't in the choices offered to me. The warning should be attached to the ticket type it refers to, not hovering at the bottom attached to the box of unavailable options.

You beat me to it. I'm not sure I've ever seen such a poor user interface - and I've seen some howlers.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Sep 2020 ==

As an independent operator it's up to London Underground what national rail tickets they accept and they've made it pretty clear they don't accept national rail e tickets.

Have you got a particular source for this? Lots of tickets with barcodes are valid on London Underground. Manchester to Kenton for example.