Equipment on buffet/restaurant cars

[ryan125hst]

I have recently become fascinated with the buffet and restaurant cars on trains. I find it remarkable that very good food can be prepared for over one hundred people in some cases, all with an hour and a half in a narrow galley the length of half a carriage!

I have been searching the internet to try to find more information about them, photographs ect, but there is very little out there, particularly of trains in the UK. Even for trains abroad, there isn't much to go on. I decided that the best thing to do was to ask on here, as I’m sure some of you work in the kitchens or serving the food to passengers.

What I want to know:

• What equipment have you got on-board? (number of ovens, fridges ect.)
• How much is prepared on-board, and how much is prepared in a catering facility (like on aircraft)?
• How much storage space have you got for food and drinks- it must be very limited?

I amazing that a galley smaller than the kitchen we have in our homes is used to serve meals (silver service in some cases) to so many people, yet on programs such as Masterchef, the kitchens used are huge!

Below is a list that I would like to know the above for, with regards to the kitchen, and the buffet area:

• Mark 1 RBR's
• East Coast HST
• East Coast IC 225
• Virgin Pendolino
• Virgin Voyager
• East Midlands Trains Class 222
• Caledonian Sleeper Lounge car (I presume the Night Riviera is similar to TFRB's on HST's as they use Mark 3 coaches).
• Eurostar

And the following trains that have more limited catering facilities:

• Cross Country HST's (I presume the Voyager's are the same as Virgin's)
• Hull Trains Class 180's

Finally, what about trains that just have a trolley, such as the Class 185's? How do they prepare hot drinks?

Photos would be welcome if you have any!

I'm sorry if I seem to have asked for a lot at once.

Thank You

ryan125hst

 

[ainsworth74]

• How much is prepared on-board, and how much is prepared in a catering facility (like on aircraft)?

On East Coast if you're on a service with a chef then the first class breakfast is prepared fresh otherwise it's a reheat job in the oven, the evening meal is also I believe freshly prepared (or at least parts of it are). Pretty much everything else on board is a reheat job though I think things like the bacon toastie are put together fresh on board.

Pullman dining/travelling chef services on FGW, WAG Express meals and EMTs breakfast services are all freshly prepared on board. I'm unsure beyond that how much if freshly made.

Below is a list that I would like to know the above for, with regards to the kitchen, and the buffet area:

• Virgin Voyager

There's a microwave (actually it's probably a microwave/oven) in the space behind he cab in the first class vehicle and I imagine a couple of fridges.

• Caledonian Sleeper Lounge car (I presume the Night Riviera is similar to TFRB's on HST's as they use Mark 3 coaches).

Actually I think that the kitchen space on the Night Riviera is not comparable to a HST TRFB, it might have been at one time but these days I think they have a few fridges, a boiling vessel for hot water and a few ovens to heat up the food. A TRFB on an HST would have more equipment than that.

And the following trains that have more limited catering facilities:

• Hull Trains Class 180's

A microwave/oven in the first class galley (which is next to the wheelchair space) and a microwave/oven in the micro-buffet.

Finally, what about trains that just have a trolley, such as the Class 185's? How do they prepare hot drinks?

I assume that the trolley is loaded with boiling hot water at Rail Gourmet (York or Manchester for TPE I believe) and that it's simply kept warm in thermos type unit on board the trolley. I believe that it can be plugged in to the train's power supply to enable a heating element to be used to keep it warm and this is located in a cabinet in the first class section, but I might be wrong on this last point.

 

[scotsman]

I assume that the trolley is loaded with boiling hot water at Rail Gourmet (York or Manchester for TPE I believe) and that it's simply kept warm in thermos type unit on board the trolley. I believe that it can be plugged in to the train's power supply to enable a heating element to be used to keep it warm and this is located in a cabinet in the first class section, but I might be wrong on this last point.

Catering on fTPE services is handled by Skytrac - they have numerous bases throughout the network, the ones I know of are Manchester Piccadilly, Manchester Airport, Edinburgh Waverley, and Glasgow Central. The trolley has boiling water loaded, and it cannot be heated by a plug socket on the train - the cabinets in First are merely storage units for the Catering Host.

I wish I could tell you about Mark 1 RBRs, but I don't cook for SRPS!

 

[ainsworth74]

Catering on fTPE services is handled by Skytrac

It is? I've seen trolleys coming out of Rail Gourmet facilities at York on boarding TPE services. Do they perhaps sub-contract some of the work to RG?

The trolley has boiling water loaded, and it cannot be heated by a plug socket on the train - the cabinets in First are merely storage units for the Catering Host.

Yeah I thought it was probably just for storage but then again it might not have been (and it would perhaps be logical to have that kind of hook up). Thanks for clearing that up

 

[marks87]

• Caledonian Sleeper Lounge car

A microwave, some fridges and a couple of work surfaces for final prep. It's pretty basic, really, although what comes out of it isn't all that bad.

 

[scotsman]

It is? I've seen trolleys coming out of Rail Gourmet facilities at York on boarding TPE services. Do they perhaps sub-contract some of the work to RG?

Probably just shared facilities - RG's base in Edinburgh is somewhere in the ScotRail sleeper crew/TrainCare depot, I get treated to a nice wait outside it while my mate dumps his trolley and clocks off!

This same mate has worked Man Pic to Scarborough, so I seriously doubt RG do anything any more for TPE

 

[SS4]

Judging by the quality of tea very few have kettles . Urn tea just doesn't taste the same!

 

[ainsworth74]

Probably just shared facilities

This same mate has worked Man Pic to Scarborough, so I seriously doubt RG do anything any more for TPE

Fair enough. Co-operation on the railway? Who'd have thought it

 

[Crossover]

The TPEs are preloaded hot water. I had pondered if it was instant water heater but a trolley girl a few fellow travellers and myself were talking to a bit back dispelled that as she had missed getting off at Leeds on a Hull working the week or so before (trolley at wrong end of train) and the water went cold

 

[KingBBoogaloo]

IIRC the catering on the Scottish TPE services are part of a separate contract to the rest.

Rail Gourmet do provide the trolleys on the true trans-Pennine services, as already mentioned from bases at York and Piccadilly. In fact the staff on-board with the trolleys are Rail Gourmet staff in First uniforms. As for the hot water, it is supplied in earns which can be plugged in to keep the water hot.

 

[BestWestern]

Rail Gourmet do provide the trolleys on the true trans-Pennine services, as already mentioned from bases at York and Piccadilly. In fact the staff on-board with the trolleys are Rail Gourmet staff in First uniforms. As for the hot water, it is supplied in earns which can be plugged in to keep the water hot.

The same set-up as FGW's 'West' services then (I appreciate the OP didn't ask about those, but it's sort of relevant!). The South Wales/Gt Malvern to South Coast runs convey a trolley courtesy of the wonderful (cough) RailGourmet, who also dress their staff in FGW uniform. The trolleys themselves simply have an insulated urn aboard, meaning that the quality of any hot drinks purchased slowly reduces throughout the journey They are plugged in at base camp to warm the water.

 

[ryan125hst]

Thanks for your responses so far! I can't believe that one of the most basic forms of catering, the trolley, is causing the most discussion! How is the water expected to stay hot for (time between leaving RailGourmet and being taken off the train after service)? How are sandwiches kept cool, or aren't they?

ainsworth74: When you say prepared fresh, how much of it is ready? Are the vegetables peeled onboard for example? Is the meat already cooked into portions? When you say microwaves, are these all combi microwaves with convection ovens? In the case of Hull Trains and the Caledonian Sleeper, how are they able to serve so many passengers with just one microwave? It must be a bit of a challange!

BestWestern: Don't worry about it. I was trying to think of examples of as many different levels of catering as I could. I don't mind if other TOC's and services are mentioned.

I was watching the East Coast promotion video on You Tube yesterday (the one from May 2011) and there were several shots of the kitchen. it appears that there were two ovens (I think i've heard on here that they are steam ovens. Why is this?) and a grill. Do they have hobs and microwaves as well? How much storage space for food and drinks do they have?

 

[dog box]

Although equipment varies throughout the classes of buffet on in use with FGW basically the full size buffets have 2 display chiller units, 2 demountabledisplay fridge modules , Stills hot water boiler, merrychef oven, blodgett oven ,4 ring hotplate, conventional oven, eye level toaster unit, rowlands rutlett sandwich toaster . demountable equipment and fridge module

 

[6Gman]

Remarkably the BR MkI Kitchen Cars (80000 number range) were built with ovens fuelled by anthracite!

 

[Crossover]

The "best" (well, funniest) bit of catering I witnessed was on a SWT 444 back in the heatwave weekend in May this year.

In the front coach, the trolley reached us probably 45 mins after leaving Waterloo.

One of the guys near me asks for some wine (IIRC) and for some ice with it. The trolley guy sticks the beaker in the bag of "ice" and it comes out full of chilled water and 2 tiny bits of ice. By the time he had drained off the water, it was pointless really! The whole thing wouldn't have looked out with added goldfish, to be honest!

 

[ryan125hst]

Remarkably the BR MkI Kitchen Cars (80000 number range) were built with ovens fuelled by anthracite!

I've had to look that up as I didn't know what it was! Aren't most Mark 1 kitchens fitted with gas appliances? Saying that, I've heard of some that we're fitted with large dynamo's and batteries and were powered by electricity (or were these Gresley coaches?). Either way, it would have been a bit of a problem if the train stopped and the batteries were flat.

 

[John55]

Remarkably the BR MkI Kitchen Cars (80000 number range) were built with ovens fuelled by anthracite!

Until very recent times the electrical supply on railway coaches was very poor and not particularly reliable. Until the advent of Electric Train Supply (ETS) which only came in generally about 1970 with air conditioned stock the source of electrical power was a belt driven dynamo which charged a battery and supplied power to lights and any other equipment.

This had the interesting effect of making the brightness of the train lighting at least partly dependent on the speed of the train. The ovens in the Kitchen would also suffer in the same way if electrically powered.

Until quite recent times (1960s) Kitchens used gas powered ovens (or forms of coal) except on the Southern were from the start of "Express" stock in the early 1930s the PULs, PANs, BELs, CORs EMUs had MG sets to provide a plentiful stable 110v electrical supply for ovens and fridges.

 

[matchmaker]

Remarkably the BR MkI Kitchen Cars (80000 number range) were built with ovens fuelled by anthracite!

I think that LNER kitchen cars used propane for cooking. LMS kitchen cars used compressed gas (oil gas?) for cooking AND lighting, with the exception of a small group which had a diesel generator and were all electric.

 

[ryan125hst]

One question i've always had is how do they keep the fridges running overnight? When a HST is stabled, for example, and the engines are off, there would be no 3 phase power for the carriages would there? Do they plug it into a shore supply?

 

[shedman]

One question i've always had is how do they keep the fridges running overnight? When a HST is stabled, for example, and the engines are off, there would be no 3 phase power for the carriages would there? Do they plug it into a shore supply?

In theory they do plug them in but in practice not always. MTUs must be kept on shore because they won't start from cold. Nothing perishable is kept in the fridges (pop and chocolate) when a set is stood down for a while so its not uncommon for them to not be plugged in. The EMT modular maintenance set is only plugged in during the day and on a night is just sat in the yard

 

[AndrewP]

Catering is an amazing subject especially for confined areas such as trains.

The main determinant of quality is the quality of the base ingredient and even if a reheat model is used the results can be excellent (business and first class on long haul flights for example).

The other thing that needs to be done is tailor the offer to the time of day and time people will be on the train.

Its a while since I've had bad catering on the rails (although I do avoid Grand Central's sandwiches)

 

[RPI]

On the FGW Pullmans everything (including veg peeling/prep) is done on the train between Plymouth and Exeter, i'm not entirely sure whether the prep for the down working is done on the up working though as they always seem quicker to serve up on the down than on the up. likewise with the travelling chef services but there isn't really much prep to do on those trains.

 

[mirodo]

You might be interested in Appendix D from this post which is the East Coast staff handbook detailing how the various food offerings should be cooked.

Direct link to the document: http://railforums.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=10722&d=1331822981

 

[ryan125hst]

You might be interested in Appendix D from this post which is the East Coast staff handbook detailing how the various food offerings should be cooked.

Direct link to the document: http://railforums.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=10722&d=1331822981

Thank You. It's interesting that many menu items have a chef prepared and a CSA prepared item. When do they use which method?

 

[ainsworth74]

Thank You. It's interesting that many menu items have a chef prepared and a CSA prepared item. When do they use which method?

On breakfast services it varies some have chefs some don't. The All Day services are all CSA prepared. Evening Meal services are all chef prepared. Obviously some items are available on both types of service but the specific service type determines if it's CSA or Chef.

 

[ryan125hst]

I didn't know what CSA meant at first, but I have just realised that it means customer service assistant (Correct?)

Presumably they just warm it up and plate it up, compared to the chefs who do more preparation?

 

[ainsworth74]

Presumably they just warm it up and plate it up, compared to the chefs who do more preparation?

This is my understanding.

 

[ryan125hst]

Has anyone got any photographs of the kitchen and buffet areas? There are very few online.

 

[shedman]

If I knew how to upload pictures I would!

 

[ainsworth74]

If I knew how to upload pictures I would!

You'll want to click 'Go Advanced' next to 'Post Quick Reply'. Then (take a look at the image I've attached with highlighted boxes for a visual) scroll down click 'Manage Attachments' in the new window that opens click 'Choose File' then browse like you would normally to wherever the picture is, select it, hit open then 'Upload'. Keep doing that until all the images you want are uploaded then type your post as normal and hit 'Submit Reply' as normal.