Equality Act and Rail Staff.

[Llanigraham]

I asked for medical help which they took no notice of . Could have been the time of night.

Ultimately I have 6 months to bring a case in the county court but expect it to be settled by then , passenger focus thought it probably would be .

You have so far asked for:
Ambulance
Hotel room
Police.
Taxi
Private space.

I'm not surprised the staff were not helpful

 

[Llanigraham]

Very bad depression for 17 years managed by medication.

Sorry for your condition, but I get the impression you are making this an excuse.

and type two diabetes which make my blood sugar levels vary and usually I have a packet of sweet buiscuits on me but had already had them.

All diabetics I know carry an ample supply of sweets or glucose, not just a small amount.

When I am put under stress it can bring on a panic attack which means I feel faint and like I am about to collapse the main cause of the stress on the day was lack of communication , even the cab driver expressed surprise after picking me up about the wait,he also contacted the cab company back who confirmed no follow up call to find out about the delay was made.

I wonder how much following up of the situation you yourself did , and in what manner?

 

[GusB]

I have no knowledge of the area, nor do I know which cab firm was likely to be involved, but the driver may not necessarily have any way to find out how long people have been waiting.

Computer booking systems were fairly new when I was in the industry, and it was only the larger firms that had them, but it was possible for a job to be booked in and not picked up, especially if there were no free cars in the immediate vicinity. I recall one occasion when I had the MD of a well-known company screaming down the phone at me from deepest Surrey because we couldn't get any London cabbies to venture so far out of town to pick him up. I was regularly on the receiving end of abuse from the night controller of a TOC for similar reasons.

I am digressing somewhat, but it's clear that there was poor communication somewhere down the chain. Did the staff at the station advise the cab company that the situation was quite urgent? Perhaps the cab company were told, but didn't make enough of an effort to prioritise. Or perhaps the OP wasn't clear enough in explaining his situation to the staff at the station.

Either way, first point of call should be making a complaint to the TOC and let them investigate. If the delay was down to the cab company, the TOC will deal with it through whatever service level agreement they have.

At least the station had staff on hand.

 

[richw]

I have a blood sugar condition (admittedly not diabetes) which can give the impression of being drunk. However I am perfectly capable of saying "I might appear drunk, but I'm not. It's a health problem and I need either to lie down in a quiet place or I'll need an ambulance".

I find it slightly odd that the OP was capable of (seemingly) arguing the toss with staff, but not of explaining his condition in a calm manner.

And are we to assume that he's in the small minority of people who do not have mobile phones?

In which case he could have looked up a Premier Inn by himself.

Does he have the mental capacity to do the above by himself?

They have said so already? I thought that they wouldn't get involved until you had received unsatisfactory correspondence from the TOC.

And as for talk about county court, i'm a firm believer in giving a chance for wrongs to be righted.

I am amazed that Transport Focus (formerly called Passenger Focus) has offered advice to you so quickly. Was this verbal communication over the phone?

I'm amazed both the equality commission and passenger focus have given responses on Friday, the incident happened Thursday night, so both have turned around within Friday office hours.
The equality commission should be taken with a pinch of salt, as an organisation they are actually trying to get favourable treatment in many aspects of life, and regularly lose in court situations.

Are we not in danger of over-analysing this?

As I now understand it the OP arrived at Ely, where his train was terminated and reported his need for assistance to rail staff. Recognising the situation and trying to save the OP any more un-necessary difficulty the staff order a taxi to take them directly to their final destination (despite this prospectively costing their company £154). This being preferable to faffing around with another journey leg to Cambridge and the OP having to re-present himself there.
Sadly the taxi was delayed in turning up and for whatever reason the helpful staff failed to keep an eye on the situation. Perhaps there was a shift change or there were other issues to deal with in terms of the disruption to services.

All very regrettable but hardly evidence of a major breach of equality legislation.

Having been in charge of stations and dealing with stranded passengers late at night I can only confess to having had my own experience of well-meaning emergency transport arrangements not quite working out as hoped for and as advised to those involved.

Emergency transport is disjointed at best. Only duty station manager can authorise it. It has to be done centrally.
A friend is a contractor who provides emergency road transport, I was stood outside the station talking to him one day, and the station manager came out to him to let him know he had just phoned control to stand him down as no longer required. As a contractor he can't leave until control call him to authorise him leaving, it took control another 50 minutes to phone him to let him go, (he's the proprietor, sole trader so his mobile was the direct line from control). The station manager had made the call before coming out to speak, so potentially an hour from station manager calling control, to control calling the road transport.

Regarding The above point that Cambridge have plenty of 24 hour taxis, that's irrelevant unless they are a contractor. Also I know from experience a lot of taxis refuse private hire at night if they also have a Hackney as there's more money in picking up drunks.

 

[IanXC]

A friend is a contractor who provides emergency road transport, I was stood outside the station talking to him one day, and the station manager came out to him to let him know he had just phoned control to stand him down as no longer required. As a contractor he can't leave until control call him to authorise him leaving, it took control another 50 minutes to phone him to let him go, (he's the proprietor, sole trader so his mobile was the direct line from control). The station manager had made the call before coming out to speak, so potentially an hour from station manager calling control, to control calling the road transport.

I once had a lengthy chat with a taxi driver doing rail work, and he said there were two ways in which they got contracted, £x for up to 4 passengers to stations from their bases to location A, or £y for 4 hours hire of taxi and driver for whatever work.

If we assume the second option was in use, if there was more time already paid for then why would control stand the transport down? Coming out of disruption there is always the chance of another passenger presenting or of some unanticipated consequence, so surely it's only sensible to keep them on - after all it's paid for!

 

[KN1]

Taxi Ely to Cambridge (about 17 miles) is between 35 and 40 quid my wife does it all the time.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Does he have the mental capacity to do the above by himself?

Railway staff are not going to be trained in the Mental Capacity Act. But if he's able to remonstrate with railway staff, I'm sure he's more than capable of looking up a Premier Inn.

 

[route:oxford]

I'm amazed both the equality commission and passenger focus have given responses on Friday, the incident happened Thursday night, so both have turned around within Friday office hours.

It does seem a little unrealistic - especially the hottest Friday of the year before both the bank holiday weekend and half term week.

The Premier Inn demand is utterly bizarre too. They are paid in full at point of booking, so it would mean he is expecting a member of railway staff to take his comprehensive details, including address, date of birth, credit card number, three or four digit security code, his on-line secure-id code for "Verified by Visa" etc and make the booking on his behalf.

I simply can't see any goverment or pseudo goverment department claiming an organisation should leave a vulnerable man with mental health issues alone in a hotel room, particularly one at risk of hypoglycemia.

 

[Clip]

Waiting 80 mins before inquiring of the whereabouts of a taxi is a little strange too - Surely after 20 minutes the OP would've asked and maybe the staff had though they had already been picked up so didnt go out and check on him.

Still feels like something is missing from this story however as it still doesn't read right.

 

[BlueFox]

The Premier Inn demand is utterly bizarre too. They are paid in full at point of booking

You don't have to pay when you book, you can pay when you check in. But they still want your card details when you book.

 

[BlueFox]

Waiting 80 mins before inquiring of the whereabouts of a taxi is a little strange too - Surely after 20 minutes the OP would've asked and maybe the staff had though they had already been picked up so didnt go out and check on him.

That's not so easy if you're having a panic attack.

Having experienced them myself I think if I'd been in that situation even asking someone for somewhere to go, asking for a hotel etc would be too much, I'd just want to be left alone while I can concentrate on my breathing and staying calm, then deal with trying to get home once it's over.

 

[Surreytraveller]

The Premier Inn demand is utterly bizarre too. They are paid in full at point of booking,

If they have an account with someone not necessarily. An invoice would be sent.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Fairly sure you can pay on arrival if using the flexible rate.

 

[route:oxford]

If they have an account with someone not necessarily. An invoice would be sent.

Businesses can indeed have an account with Premier Inn.

https://businessaccount.premierinn.com/Secure/Login.aspx

The OP, who seems to have disappeared, has so far chosen not to disclose whether or not he holds a business account with Premier Inn.

Fairly sure you can pay on arrival if using the flexible rate.

All hotels have their official "rack rate".

Not forgetting of course that, according to their website, the nearest Premier Inn to Ely is in Newmarket or Cambridge - around 14 miles away.

 

[richw]

I once had a lengthy chat with a taxi driver doing rail work, and he said there were two ways in which they got contracted, £x for up to 4 passengers to stations from their bases to location A, or £y for 4 hours hire of taxi and driver for whatever work.

If we assume the second option was in use, if there was more time already paid for then why would control stand the transport down? Coming out of disruption there is always the chance of another passenger presenting or of some unanticipated consequence, so surely it's only sensible to keep them on - after all it's paid for!

£50 and hour or £1.60 a mile whichever greatest is the going rate in Devon and cornwall, minimum 3 hours pay. So minimum pay is £150. The day he was stood down when I was with him, he earnt £150 for the 4 mile round trip from his depot to the station.

 

[DarloRich]

I have had plenty of training in the equalities act - i will simply say the op is mistaken in his understanding and application of that act. This is creating unreasonable expectations

 

[185]

Hell, where did this thread appear from?!! As my company doc wrote recently "the equalities act 2010 without question applies to this employee" my word, I'm having some time off and demanding a three hour working day

 

[Geeves]

deleted

 

[Llanigraham]

I have had plenty of training in the equalities act - i will simply say the op is mistaken in his understanding and application of that act. This is creating unreasonable expectations

Quite!
And not uncommon.

 

[yorkie]

The only issue I can see here is that in between the ordering and waiting of the taxi the staff were being threatened with the police being called, having the equalities act fired at them late at night and then being told said passenger demanded a premier Inn. Its not really surprising that once the taxi was ordered the passenger was left to his own devices? It certainly does not sound like the staff were given much respect.

Maybe, but unless there is something missing, I am unsure that would explain it.

Richard1960 appears to be stating that the taxi was ordered, with an ETA of 20 minutes, without any problems.

There appears to have been no communication for 70 minutes, which is a very long time. I think both parties should share some of the blame for leaving it so long without communicating, unless there are some circumstances to explain this long period of neither party communicating with the other.

It's unclear which party then initiated the discussion after 70 minutes, but that was the point at which we are told he had a panic attack and asked for an ambulance or a premier inn.

Without knowing exactly what was said, it is difficult to comment, however based purely on what has been posted, it does sound like mistakes were made on both sides.

But I do not see any evidence - based on the information provided - that a breach of the Equality Act took place.

 

[Geeves]

Deleted my post Yorkie. You are right.

 

[BestWestern]

I have reflected on why police attendance was threatened but if they had felt really threatened they would have done it.

Promising me a cab in 20-25 mins and after and hour a and ten mins I was still there with NO explanation of the delay at all , in fact no communication as to why ,hopefully an enquirey will also dicscover why they did not keep me informed and just sitting there.

Playing Devil's Advocate here for a moment, that first sentence reads to me a little as an admission that you might have given them cause to feel police attendance was needed? In reference to the second paragraph, did you attempt to ask where the taxi was or why it was delayed at all?

Could it be possible that, having understandably become frustrated at the lengthy delay, and by now becoming panicked and perhaps a little agitated, you might have approached the staff in a manner which they may have received as threatening or aggressive? Was there significant disruption happening - other passengers to deal with, other delayed services, lots of other things going on keeping them very busy?

I sympathise with your condition, and I can see how the situation would be challenging. I would, though, also offer the viewpoint that railway staff can only act upon what they see, particularly in the midst of disruption and delays when everybody is fed up and they all want immediate solutions right this second. Staff are not medical professionals, and aren't in a position to assume that any and every person who behaves in a threatening manner might have an illness. The vast majority of such people are just bad tempered for whatever reason, and threats and abuse are routine for a lot of staff. That is particularly true of station staff, who tend to bear the brunt. There's also the 'human condition', which dictates that once somebody has presented themselves in a certain way and 'got your back up', if you will, it's not easy to immediately alter one's perspective if that person retrospectively offers an explanation.

I think submitting a complaint as you have done is probably the best way forward.

 

[island]

I'm very unconvinced that anything here constitutes any violation of the Equality Act. I agree with most of the posts above which say the same, and in particular that the OP hasn't helped himself by his attitude. There is at most a minor customer services failure caused by the taxi taking an undue amount of time to arrive.

[/B]

Well I felt my diginity was in question making me have to stand in front of other passengers having a melt down due to illness with no help offered .

Which is covered by the equality act.

This was post 11pm but even the cab driver could not understand why on earth they had not followed through with getting me a cab at Cambridge as he said there are loads of 24 hour cabs there.

Unlike Ely where most are not 24 hour which is why they had trouble sourcing one..

You go on and on about dignity, but looking at what the Equality Act actually says, "dignity" appears once in the Act as follows:

A person (A) harasses another (B) if—
(a) A engages in unwanted conduct related to a relevant protected characteristic, and
(b) the conduct has the purpose or effect of—
(i) violating B's dignity, or
(ii) creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for B.

The train company has not engaged in conduct (unwanted or otherwise) related to any disability – not that it's clear the OP has a disability, as opposed to an illness – and as such the Equality Act isn't engaged. Change the record.

You don't have to pay when you book, you can pay when you check in. But they still want your card details when you book.

Depends on the rate you book.

 

[cjmillsnun]

You go on and on about dignity, but looking at what the Equality Act actually says, "dignity" appears once in the Act as follows:

The train company has not engaged in conduct (unwanted or otherwise) related to any disability – not that it's clear the OP has a disability, as opposed to an illness – and as such the Equality Act isn't engaged. Change the record.

Whilst I do not think the OP was treated overly unfairly, you are wrong in stating just a disability. A relevant protected characteristic is not just a disability, it can be an illness (mental or physical), race, religion, gender, orientation and age amongst others.

The OP states he has illnesses, one physical (type 2 diabetes) and mental (anxiety and depression). Both of which are protected characteristics.

 

[island]

I'm afraid you're wrong there. Relevant protected characteristics are:

(5)The relevant protected characteristics are—
age;
disability;
gender reassignment;
race;
religion or belief;
sex;
sexual orientation.

"Illness" is notable by its absence.

 

[cjmillsnun]

OK but his anxiety and depression DOES count as a disability...

You’re disabled under the Equality Act 2010 if you have a physical or mental impairment that has a ‘substantial’ and ‘long-term’ negative effect on your ability to do normal daily activities.

And yes, mental illness counts. I have Bipolar disorder and technically have a disability.

 

[island]

Nothing actually turns on whether the OP has a disability or not – and not all illnesses will constitute disabilities in any event. To the extent the TOC has engaged in unwanted conduct towards the OP, it was because the OP wanted to be conveyed to a later station, and not because the OP had a disability.

 

[tony_mac]

I'm afraid you're wrong there. Relevant protected characteristics are:

"Illness" is notable by its absence.

any impairment that has a ‘substantial’ and ‘long-term’ negative effect on your ability to do normal daily activities. (long term usually meaning over a year - substantial is open to a lot of interpretation).
e.g., type 1 diabetes probably would count, type 2 probably not ( Metroline Travel Ltd v Stoute )

 

[markydh]

In any rate, the OP is protected under the Equality Act 2010 by his longstanding mental health diagnosis. And just to dispel one misconception, the act isn't about being treated *equally* to others, but about being treated in a way that is appropriate to the individual that doesn't contravene their rights as underpinned by the act. So, for example, a baker couldn't refuse to make a cake with a gay message on the basis that they refuse any message that goes against their religion. They wouldn't be able to argue that they are treated everyone equally because sexuality is a protected characteristic. I have a mental health condition and am covered by the act. I've also served time as a disability officer with my union. I cannot say one way or another if the OP has been treated in a way that contravenes the act but I just wanted to dispel a myth.

 

[Deafdoggie]

In any rate, the OP is protected under the Equality Act 2010 by his longstanding mental health diagnosis. And just to dispel one misconception, the act isn't about being treated *equally* to others, but about being treated in a way that is appropriate to the individual that doesn't contravene their rights as underpinned by the act. So, for example, a baker couldn't refuse to make a cake with a gay message on the basis that they refuse any message that goes against their religion. They wouldn't be able to argue that they are treated everyone equally because sexuality is a protected characteristic. I have a mental health condition and am covered by the act. I've also served time as a disability officer with my union. I cannot say one way or another if the OP has been treated in a way that contravenes the act but I just wanted to dispel a myth.

Not quite...it is called the equality act for a reason! The baker example you used is often thrown around, and the reason they have to, is because the people wanting the cake have to be treated equally. They are not getting something noone else can have, but equally, they are not getting preferential treatment. They are just getting equality. You do have to make reasonable adjustments to give them equality, but a hotel room is not reasonable.