Epsom Reversals and Oyster

[Feathers44]

We took a trip to Epsom yesterday and I finally worked out that all platforms are signalled for running into London. Up until now, I'd been led to believe that the Southern terminators went into and out of a siding to move between the Down and Up platforms for the reversal. Is this not the case? Do they simply reverse form Platform 1?

(I assume that SWT peak terminators have to reverse from platform 2 since I'm not sure how easy a siding in-and-out would be from there.)

As an aside, we saw the usual group getting PF'd at the barriers as we walked through. Oyster was advertised as being available from Epsom 'from September 15' when it was announced last year but I haven't heard anything further.

 

[swt_passenger]

We took a trip to Epsom yesterday and I finally worked out that all platforms are signalled for running into London. Up until now, I'd been led to believe that the Southern terminators went into and out of a siding to move between the Down and Up platforms for the reversal. Is this not the case? Do they simply reverse form Platform 1?

(I assume that SWT peak terminators have to reverse from platform 2 since I'm not sure how easy a siding in-and-out would be from there.)

A day's services on realtimetrains should show what is planned to happen:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/EPS/2015/11/13/0600-2000?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

At a first run through SW terminators do appear to reverse from platform 2.

There are quite a number of SN train moves via sidings:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...15/11/13/0600-2000?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[tsr]

Most Southern terminators either turn back from Platform 1 or head into the sidings and then come back to the same platform after a Southbound through train has departed. Epsom has a slightly unusual layout and it's a bit of a case of making the best of an awkward situation. Southern services would not use Platform 2/4 in most scenarios, as Southern train crew don't sign via Raynes Park for obvious reasons. You can enter any of the platforms from Ashtead and then turn back and shunt into the sidings, allowing terminations from the South. This is quite rare for 2/4 - and shunts for Northbound trains terminating in general.

As for Oyster... it must be, along with Redhill/Gatwick Airport, one of the stations in the area where people most often mistakenly think you can use Oyster/contactless. Unlike Gatwick Airport services, I have not heard any definite information regarding the date of any rollout. It is especially embarrassing that the posters at the entrance to the station say you can use Oyster (if you look very closely) but the signs further in have to contradict those. TfL accept Oyster on buses as far as Dorking so the whole consistency is pretty bad as situations go. I would prefer it if people were not issued PFs, and indeed I try to educate passengers where I can, but there are no conductors on most Southern services to check tickets and warn people. IIRC most of the SWT guards in the area are non-commercial. The official stance on PFs and the like still stands and my preference does not mean to say that it is legally wrong. It just all feels very unfortunate.

 

[Feathers44]

Most Southern terminators either turn back from Platform 1 or head into the sidings and then come back to the same platform after a Southbound through train has departed. Epsom has a slightly unusual layout and it's a bit of a case of making the best of an awkward situation. Southern services would not use Platform 2/4 in most scenarios, as Southern train crew don't sign via Raynes Park for obvious reasons. You can enter any of the platforms from Ashtead and then turn back and shunt into the sidings, allowing terminations from the South. This is quite rare for 2/4 - and shunts for Northbound trains terminating in general.

As for Oyster... it must be, along with Redhill/Gatwick Airport, one of the stations in the area where people most often mistakenly think you can use Oyster/contactless. Unlike Gatwick Airport services, I have not heard any definite information regarding the date of any rollout. It is especially embarrassing that the posters at the entrance to the station say you can use Oyster (if you look very closely) but the signs further in have to contradict those. TfL accept Oyster on buses as far as Dorking so the whole consistency is pretty bad as situations go. I would prefer it if people were not issued PFs, and indeed I try to educate passengers where I can, but there are no conductors on most Southern services to check tickets and warn people. IIRC most of the SWT guards in the area are non-commercial. The official stance on PFs and the like still stands and my preference does not mean to say that it is legally wrong. It just all feels very unfortunate.

Many thanks for the information (although I'd be hard pressed to know why it matters to me, it just does!). I'd always imagined a Plat 1-Siding-Plat 3 shunt for reversals as on the odd occasions I've checked the national rail site I'd seen all Southern departures from 3. Checking realtimetrains clearly should have occurred to me.

On the Oyster front, SWT have an automated announcement about valididty just befoire Ewell West but I don't know how effective this is. I'd always imagined that the lack of Oyster acceptance was the reason for the barriers at Epsom, providing a bit of a PF honeypot. I am, of course, old and cynical like that.

Interestingly, on the one occasion my wife tried to Oyster into Epsom a few years ago, she was advised (and allowed) to return to Ewell West and sort things out from there. I thank whichever member of Southern staff isuued that advice!

 

[tsr]

Many thanks for the information (although I'd be hard pressed to know why it matters to me, it just does!). I'd always imagined a Plat 1-Siding-Plat 3 shunt for reversals as on the odd occasions I've checked the national rail site I'd seen all Southern departures from 3. Checking realtimetrains clearly should have occurred to me.

On the Oyster front, SWT have an automated announcement about valididty just befoire Ewell West but I don't know how effective this is. I'd always imagined that the lack of Oyster acceptance was the reason for the barriers at Epsom, providing a bit of a PF honeypot. I am, of course, old and cynical like that.

Interestingly, on the one occasion my wife tried to Oyster into Epsom a few years ago, she was advised (and allowed) to return to Ewell West and sort things out from there. I thank whichever member of Southern staff isuued that advice!

There's a fair bit of fare evasion due to unbarriered / part-time barriered stations elsewhere anyway, so having barriers at the major destinations in the area such as Epsom does make sense to try to spoil the chances of some of the casual offenders of this nature. This is harder to deal with than finding Oyster mistakes, which are also swept into the same catch-all that the ticket barriers should provide anyway. Obviously barriers can be a good thing as they can be used to prevent Oyster users from accidentally entering the station. There are many people who think that because a standalone reader - be it a Southern key reader, an Oyster reader or something else - doesn't work with their Oyster card, they can simply walk past and try again later (or forget it), so barriers can work effectively against this too. The main issue with that is that Oyster cards shouldn't work at Epsom yet anyway, but because someone who must have been completely colour blind decided that ITSO/key card only readers should be yellow as well, you can quite easily be tricked into thinking they take Oyster when they don't.

 

[Feathers44]

but because someone who must have been completely colour blind decided that ITSO/key card only readers should be yellow as well, you can quite easily be tricked into thinking they take Oyster when they don't.

Yes, I stilll have to double check the graphics on those things when I go through them even though I'm travelling on paper. It's a pretty inconsiderate colour choice in my view.