Epsom Downs - Why so slow?

[Sad Sprinter]

One thing I've always wondered is why Epsom Downs trains are routed by the long, long circle to Victoria via West Croydon, when they could cut the corner and run via Mitcham. I'm assuming this is because of conflicts at Sutton Junction. Nevertheless, would there be much demand in running them via Mitcham or even fast to London Bridge via Norwood Junction?

 

[JonathanH]

One thing I've always wondered is why Epsom Downs trains are routed by the long, long circle to Victoria via West Croydon, when they could cut the corner and run via Mitcham. I'm assuming this is because of conflicts at Sutton Junction. Nevertheless, would there be much demand in running them via Mitcham or even fast to London Bridge via Norwood Junction?

Priority for the faster services is given to trains down the Epsom route which clearly go further out to Dorking and Horsham and have a greater catchment area. Even trains terminating at Epsom offer the opportunity for passengers to connect to South Western Railway services further south.

Obviously there is the conflict issue. However, I note that the fast trains on the London Bridge route run to Epsom, despite the need to use the crossover at Sutton.

I suspect you are overestimating the demand on the Epsom Downs line which doesn't really go anywhere. I'm sure plenty of people change at Sutton or West Croydon for other services.

In all reality, other destinations are deemed more worthy of the direct trains and Epsom Downs is just a long reversing siding that fits the timetable for the stoppers.

 

[Thebaz]

Back in the early 90s NSE did try running Epsom Downs services to/from Victoria via Carshalton but the service didn't last long before they reverted to the route via West Croydon. It was also only an hourly service back then.

The truth is the route is not very well patronised and frequency of faster services through Sutton has improved so much since those days it means that if you are coming from that direction you can easily change at Sutton and be at in London in 30mins or less. As it is now half-hourly instead of hourly it affords good opportunities for changing trains. I know quite a few people who live in that area also drive to Epsom, Sutton or Coulsdon to pick up a faster train.

 

[cle]

Are there not plans to upgrade that line - double tracking and more frequency? Although I suspect as a siding function, as mentioned, for more local services.
Do connections at Sutton work well for the more direct Victoria services? Or at West Croydon for the fast LB?

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Would have thought it would be quite nice to give that, and realistically those two platforms at Sutton, to LO. Let those trains go to Highbury and Dalston.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Are there not plans to upgrade that line - double tracking and more frequency? Although I suspect as a siding function, as mentioned, for more local services.
Do connections at Sutton work well for the more direct Victoria services? Or at West Croydon for the fast LB?

You can just change to the fast LB at Sutton as it won't make any overall difference to the journey and your more likely to get a seat.

No plans to double as far as I'm aware. And considering the financial situation, I doubt anything like that will happen anytime soon and that would be if there were plans, which there aren't. They have a 10 minute connection with the fast London Victoria service, and 5 minute connection with the fast London Bridge service at Sutton. Seems pretty decent to me to be honest.

 

[Thebaz]

You can just change to the fast LB at Sutton as it won't make any overall difference to the journey and your more likely to get a seat.

No plans to double as far as I'm aware. And considering the financial situation, I doubt anything like that will happen anytime soon and that would be if there were plans, which there aren't. They have a 10 minute connection with the fast London Victoria service, and 5 minute connection with the fast London Bridge service at Sutton. Seems pretty decent to me to be honest.

Yes good connection times at Sutton going towards London. Not so good coming back from LB - 20 minute wait IIRC. Anyway it was long enough last time I did it to make me go out and get a bus. Which is fine if you only want to go to Belmont.

 

[30907]

Are there not plans to upgrade that line - double tracking and more frequency?

Re-doubling out to Banstead would allow a 15 minute service - but as the line last enjoyed that (off-peak) in the early 60s I don't think it's likely.
The old Epsom Downs station was (like Tattenham Corner) laid out on a vast scale for racegoers (in fine weather only - no canopies!) and operationally was only useful as a stabling point.

 

[London Trains]

The branch is probably worth closing anyway as it has such low usage and is not at all useful for going to most the places it serves.

Belmont is served by around 16 buses per hour all from the bus stop directly outside of the station (and even more terminate at Sutton station which could be extended), most of which go straight down Brighton Road and take less than 10 minutes, so a 2tph train service that effectively requires a change at Sutton anyway is pointless. Banstead and Epsom Downs are both nowhere near the locations they serve.

The alignment from Sutton to Belmont could be used for a further extension of Tramlink if the Sutton extension ever happens, and this could then potentially be extended to the Royal Marsden Hospital and Banstead High Street on new alignments.

 

[Horizon22]

Would have thought it would be quite nice to give that, and realistically those two platforms at Sutton, to LO. Let those trains go to Highbury and Dalston.

As in merge the current W. Croydon terminators with the Southern Epsom Downs service? Could be a nice combination if the extra 25 minutes can be timetabled and planned.