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Epsom / Cuffley rezoned

frankmoh

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TfL just seems to give favourable zones to its own stations. Kempton Park and Watford High Street are similar in length from their starting terminal, but only one of these is in a zone.

Makes me wonder what zones Watford West and Croxley Green would be in if they were still open today.
 
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themeone

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It just seems ridiculous that in the course of the 3 minute journey from Ewell East (Zone 6) to Epsom you can jump 4 zones.
 

marshlinker

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Indeed though there are numerous cases where Zone 6 goes beyond Greater London:
  • Thames Ditton and Hampton Court - which primarily serve an attraction within Greater London (Hampton Court) and presumably are deemed to have sufficient capacity to handle the ‘railheading’ that being in Zone 6 generates
  • Stoneleigh, Ewell East and Ewell West
  • Moor Park - albeit this is dual zoned with Zone 7
  • Elstree & Borehamwood
  • the eastern end of the Central line - here Zone 4 mostly goes to the boundary of Greater London, with Zone 6 stretching well into Essex. In fact, Roding Valley, Chigwell and Grange Hill are all in Essex yet are still in Zone 4!
  • Whyteleaf, Upper Warlingham, Whyteleaf South and Caterham
  • Chipstead, Kingswood, Tadworth and Tattenham Corner
  • Banstead and Epsom Downs
The last Zone 4 station on a particular line varies from being as much as 11.9 miles from Charing Cross (Grange Hill) to as little as 7.8 miles (Meridian Water). Meanwhile the last Zone 6 station varies from as much as 16.6 miles (Harold Wood) to as little as 11 miles (Surbiton, in mainline or Guildford direction).

So as you say, there isn’t much geographical consistency - 11 miles from Charing Cross could equally put you in Essex yet in Zone 4 (Grange Hill), or in Greater London but in Zone 6 (Surbiton).
Maybe a trivia topic but i believe that Knockholt on the SE Mainline is the furthest zone 6 station from Charing Cross 16m 44 chains by rail and about 21 miles by the shortest road journey. The station itself is in Greater London but you have to pass through Kent to get to it. Knockholt village itself successfully campaigned to re join Kent after it was initially swallowed up by the london Borough of Bromley.
 

Benjwri

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TfL just seems to give favourable zones to its own stations. Kempton Park and Watford High Street are similar in length from their starting terminal, but only one of these is in a zone.

Makes me wonder what zones Watford West and Croxley Green would be in if they were still open today.
Likely because it’s not up to just TfL when it isn’t their own station. PAYG prices changing for NR services would need approval from the TOCs and importantly RDG.
 

Kilopylae

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Likely because it’s not up to just TfL when it isn’t their own station. PAYG prices changing for NR services would need approval from the TOCs and importantly RDG.
Yes - accusing TfL of favouritism when it's the TOCs that demand inflated fares be charged for their own stations is a serious misreading.
 

aron2smith

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It just seems ridiculous that in the course of the 3 minute journey from Ewell East (Zone 6) to Epsom you can jump 4 zones.
Not quite as extreme but on fast services, you can get from Cheshunt - zone 8 to Tottenham Hale - zone 3 in 8 or 9 minutes. Nearly every station on the way is in a different zone too.

The zone jump between Crews Hill and Crews Hill also bothers me.
 

MikeWh

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The zone jump between Crews Hill and Crews Hill also bothers me.
Presumably you mean Cuffley. I wouldn't read too much into zones beyond 6. Zones 7-9 are mainly for TfL services Anything over 9 is purely to allow Oyster to work. The fares are all set at the behest of the TOC which owns the flows.

When the ability to provide discounted fares on contactless happens the concept of zones beyond 9 will probably disappear.
 

aron2smith

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Presumably you mean Cuffley. I wouldn't read too much into zones beyond 6. Zones 7-9 are mainly for TfL services Anything over 9 is purely to allow Oyster to work. The fares are all set at the behest of the TOC which owns the flows.

When the ability to provide discounted fares on contactless happens the concept of zones beyond 9 will probably disappear.
However it sounds very likely Cuffley and the rest of that line will be devolved to TFL in time and maybe not so long away. When that happens, Cuffley will exclusively be served by London Overground, so that would impact what zone it is in surely?

That line currently charges national rail fares, considerably more expensive than TFL's own fares too.
 

MikeWh

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However it sounds very likely Cuffley and the rest of that line will be devolved to TFL in time and maybe not so long away. When that happens, Cuffley will exclusively be served by London Overground, so that would impact what zone it is in surely?

That line currently charges national rail fares, considerably more expensive than TFL's own fares too.
Not necessarily. There are no zones on the Elizabeth line west of West Drayton. There may be a change to fares as far as Hadley Wood/Crews Hill, although that was not immediately the case for the GA lines out of Liverpool Street when Overground took over them.
 

Hadders

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However it sounds very likely Cuffley and the rest of that line will be devolved to TFL in time and maybe not so long away. When that happens, Cuffley will exclusively be served by London Overground, so that would impact what zone it is in surely?

That line currently charges national rail fares, considerably more expensive than TFL's own fares too.
I doubt you'll see any fares decreases if TfL take the line over.
 

lucas01789

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Just to piggyback slightly, I wonder if any of you could advise this non-Londoner on the cheapest journey? We'll be travelling to Wimbledon overground on Saturday morning from Epsom railway station. At the end of the day's play, we'll be travelling back from Southfields tube to St.Pancras for our onward journey back to the East Midlands. I'm a bit confused about price-caps when paying contactless v buying tickets for the Epsom-Wimbledon journey (there are two of us and we have a Two Together railcard)

a)Is it cheaper to pay contactless for both journeys? (does the price-cap even apply?) or
b) Should we buy tickets using the TT railcard for the Epsom-Wimbledon leg and then use contactless for Southfield-St.Pancras?

For those of us who don't live in London it's difficult to get your head around the fare zones and price-caps sometimes!
 

Hadders

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Epsom to Wimbledon with a Two Together Railcard costs £2.45 for an Off Peak Day Singly
Contectless from Southfields to Kings Cross St Pancras costs £3.30 Off Peak

Note that Epsom to Wimbledon using contactless is £3.70 so whether you buy a traditional ticket with your railcard or use contactless the saving is small.
 

Watershed

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Just to piggyback slightly, I wonder if any of you could advise this non-Londoner on the cheapest journey? We'll be travelling to Wimbledon overground on Saturday morning from Epsom railway station. At the end of the day's play, we'll be travelling back from Southfields tube to St.Pancras for our onward journey back to the East Midlands. I'm a bit confused about price-caps when paying contactless v buying tickets for the Epsom-Wimbledon journey (there are two of us and we have a Two Together railcard)

a)Is it cheaper to pay contactless for both journeys? (does the price-cap even apply?) or
b) Should we buy tickets using the TT railcard for the Epsom-Wimbledon leg and then use contactless for Southfield-St.Pancras?

For those of us who don't live in London it's difficult to get your head around the fare zones and price-caps sometimes!
An Epsom to Underground Zones 1-3 Off-Peak Day Single routed "via Wimbledon Park" would be valid for the journeys intended and would, AFAIK, be the cheapest option given you have a Two Together Railcard. This would cost £4.50 each.

Capping applied to all contactless journeys, but the caps for most combinations of Zones / locations (including Epsom) are generally so high that you're not going to reach it by making two journeys. You usually have to make at least three journeys to reach it.
 

Haywain

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An Epsom to Underground Zones 1-3 Off-Peak Day Single routed "via Wimbledon Park" would be valid for the journeys intended
It is valid for Epsom to St Pancras but I think the OP might encounter difficulty with break of journey and resumption at Southfields.
 

Watershed

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It is valid for Epsom to St Pancras but I think the OP might encounter difficulty with break of journey and resumption at Southfields.
I doubt there would be any difficulty breaking their journey at Wimbledon. At Southfields it should just work the barrier and if not, it is not exactly controversial to enter at an Underground Zone 3 station to use a ticket with Underground Zones 1-3 printed on it.
 

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