Epsom / Cuffley rezoned

[Edvid]

As per MikeWh's fare finder Epsom and Cuffley (both GTR stations) have been transferred from Zone 9 to Zone 10. This means the previous unadvertised validity of Z1-9 Travelcards at those stations no longer applies and their "outside fare zones" label on the TfL Rail & Tube Map is now consistent with that of other stations in the double-digit Oyster zones.

 

[Kilopylae]

As per MikeWh's fare finder Epsom and Cuffley (both GTR stations) have been transferred from Zone 9 to Zone 10. This means the previous unadvertised validity of Z1-9 Travelcards at those stations no longer applies and their "outside fare zones" label on the TfL Rail & Tube Map is now consistent with that of other stations in the double-digit Oyster zones.

This is also being discussed on Mike's forums: https://oysterfares.com/topic/zonal-status-of-epsom/

 

[MikeWh]

This is what happens when you're waiting for the answer to an edge case scenario before publishing an article. The full story will be very soon.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Sure, but this feel like aother one of TfL's 'shoot first, ask questions later' approach to getting charges put on cards. This may explain why my US relations ended up paying so much on their Apple last summer so will look at the full article with great interest!

 

[MikeWh]

This may explain why my US relations ended up paying so much on their Apple last summer so will look at the full article with great interest!

That may also be down to an issue with Apple Pay Express Mode. You can read about that here: https://oysterfares.com/use-apple-pay-express-transit-feature-you-must-read-this/ and please do comment if it looks likely. Journey history is available for 12 months for contactless cards and devices registered on the TfL website.

TfL's 'shoot first, ask questions later' approach to getting charges put on cards.

The changes for stations accepting Oyster outside zone 9 are being driven by the TOCs rather than TfL.

 

[Sonic1234]

TfL's 'shoot first, ask questions later' approach to getting charges put on cards

What Oyster and Contactless (to a greater degree) has created is a system where customers do not know, and do not consider in general what a journey costs. While there are published fares, most people have no idea what they are and just receive an aggregated charge on a bank statement they never check. TfL has made public transport more like travelling by car from an awareness of the costs perspective.

This is what Project Oval is all about - getting around the shock of "how much????" and instead just tapping the magic card.

How many Londoners or visitors would know what is meant by "TfL scale", "NR scale" or "mixed mode"? Less than 1%?

 

[AY1975]

My initial thought was that this change happened with the March fares revision, but if you look up Waterloo or Victoria to Epsom or Moorgate to Cuffley on brfares.com, it still quotes the same Oyster/contactless fares for at least the last few fare periods, i.e. the current period (1st March-4th July) and the previous three periods (7th September-6th December, 7th Dec-12th Jan and 13th Jan-28th Feb). This would suggest that this change may have been made some time ago but has only just come to light.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Noting all of the above, why does the TfL's own website still seem to suggest that Cuffley Rail station is in Zone 9?

Cuffley Rail Station

Live arrivals for Cuffley Rail Station stop.

tfl.gov.uk

Extract...

Cuffley Rail Station
(Zone 9)

 

[81A]

Noting all of the above, why does the TfL's own website still seem to suggest that Cuffley Rail station is in Zone 9?

Cuffley Rail Station

Live arrivals for Cuffley Rail Station stop.

tfl.gov.uk

Extract...

Given this, what would the position if one were to turn up at Cuffley with a zones 1-9 magstripe day travel card? Presumably impossible to enforce any additional charge?

 

[Sonic1234]

Given this, what would the position if one were to turn up at Cuffley with a zones 1-9 magstripe day travel card? Presumably impossible to enforce any additional charge?

Almost certainly nothing, it's ungated.

More interesting would be to turn up at gated Epsom with one. Probably the OnTrak gateline assistant wouldn't have a clue and wave you through.

 

[frankmoh]

How many Londoners or visitors would know what is meant by "TfL scale", "NR scale" or "mixed mode"? Less than 1%?

It took me a very long time to learn that a Zone 1-4 journey from a Southeastern station cost more than a Zone 1-4 journey from a Chiltern station. And this is coming from someone who likes trains!

 

[MrJeeves]

I still struggle to understand the TfL PAYG scales today...!

 

[Leogilbert007]

It took me a very long time to learn that a Zone 1-4 journey from a Southeastern station cost more than a Zone 1-4 journey from a Chiltern station. And this is coming from someone who likes trains!

wait, would someone mind elaborating on this, please?

 

[Watershed]

wait, would someone mind elaborating on this, please?

There are different 'fare scales' depending on the routes your journey is deemed to use. Fare scales for National Rail routes where the operators were forced to accept Oyster in 2010 (e.g. Southeastern) are higher than those for those who voluntarily accepted it earlier (e.g. Chiltern).

This means a Z1-4 journey doesn't have a fixed cost which applies across all of London. It varies depending on the applicable fare scale.

There's a full explanation on @MikeWh 's site:

Fares Guide & Tables – Oyster Fares Central

oysterfares.com

 

[Leogilbert007]

There are different 'fare scales' depending on the routes your journey is deemed to use. Fare scales for National Rail routes where the operators were forced to accept Oyster in 2010 (e.g. Southeastern) are higher than those for those who voluntarily accepted it earlier (e.g. Chiltern).

This means a Z1-4 journey doesn't have a fixed cost which applies across all of London. It varies depending on the applicable fare scale.

There's a full explanation on @MikeWh 's site:

Fares Guide & Tables – Oyster Fares Central

oysterfares.com

oh, this is interesting; I knew about TfL versus NR fare scales, but not about differences within the NR fare scale. Thanks!

 

[frankmoh]

There are different 'fare scales' depending on the routes your journey is deemed to use. Fare scales for National Rail routes where the operators were forced to accept Oyster in 2010 (e.g. Southeastern) are higher than those for those who voluntarily accepted it earlier (e.g. Chiltern).

This means a Z1-4 journey doesn't have a fixed cost which applies across all of London. It varies depending on the applicable fare scale.

There's a full explanation on @MikeWh 's site:

Fares Guide & Tables – Oyster Fares Central

oysterfares.com

These fare scales don't seem very fair, do they?

 

[Sonic1234]

oh, this is interesting; I knew about TfL versus NR fare scales, but not about differences within the NR fare scale. Thanks!

Then sometimes you can get a TfL fare but use NR services - the stations in South London served by NR and Overground are good for this. TfL are good at assuming you take the cheapest route, sometimes you travel through a zone you don't pay for too.

These fare scales don't seem very fair, do they?

Not at all. Daily capping makes it a bit fairer if you travel a few times in the day (particularly mixed-mode journeys soon reach the cap), and the cap is the same regardless of modes used. But the whole thing works because people don't know what they are paying, aren't that bothered about it and few people outside of this forum or Money Saving Expert ever check.

 

[Hadders]

Not at all. Daily capping makes it a bit fairer if you travel a few times in the day (particularly mixed-mode journeys soon reach the cap), and the cap is the same regardless of modes used. But the whole thing works because people don't know what they are paying, aren't that bothered about it and few people outside of this forum or Money Saving Expert ever check.

No fares system is perfect but before PAYG I don't recall fares being any cheaper, relatively speaking.

 

[JonathanH]

No fares system is perfect but before PAYG I don't recall fares being any cheaper, relatively speaking.

PAYG in 2010 did increase significantly the price of some "mixed mode" journeys, and made travel more expensive in the evening peak.

 

[MikeWh]

did increase significantly the price of some "mixed mode" journeys

Did it? If I wanted to travel into London and on the Underground I either had to get a U-Zone ticket or pay separately on the tube. The mixed mode simply made the process automatic.

 

[Edvid]

Changes to Oyster Capping Beyond Zone 9 (inc Epsom and Cuffley) – Oyster Fares Central

oysterfares.com

Summary quoted below.

What’s Changed?​

First off, Epsom and Cuffley have been moved into zone 10. This means that Oyster cards will initially apply higher caps. They will eventually be reduced to the intended level relevant to the travelcard prices from the two stations.

You may recall that a few weeks ago I reported that all Oyster cards are now put through the back-office system, and if any overcharges have been made due to the different method of calculating caps on the fly then credits are queued to be refunded when the card is next used. See this article for more details about how it works. I should have guessed at the time that there was more to it than just a few adjustments. Now it’s clear what that was, it’s to adjust higher caps down to a level desired by the train company, without being tied to rigid zonal caps. It also applies to all Oyster cards now, from zip 5-10 upwards. These changes all came into effect in December 2025, but without any publicity.

 

[aron2smith]

A bit ridiculous if this is the case, it's level with Cheshunt in zone 8 and even that is too high a zone for the distance from Central London. Both should be in zone 6 really, certainly no higher than 7. At some point, the London zones should be adjusted to make them more consistent by distance, maybe even reduce the number of fare zones altogether and finally align National Rail PAYG fares with TFL's.

 

[Haywain]

A bit ridiculous if this is the case, it's level with Cheshunt in zone 8 and even that is too high a zone for the distance from Central London. Both should be in zone 6 really, certainly no higher than 7. At some point, the London zones should be adjusted to make them more consistent by distance, maybe even reduce the number of fare zones altogether and finally align National Rail PAYG fares with TFL's.

I believe the edge of zone 6 is, in general terms, at the edge of Greater London rather than a distance from anywhere.

 

[marshlinker]

I believe the edge of zone 6 is, in general terms, at the edge of Greater London rather than a distance from anywhere.

You're right, but the case for Epsom not being in Zone 6 is undermined by Epsom Downs, Tattenham Corner, Hampton Court, Caterham & both Ewells all being in Surrey.

 

[Watershed]

I believe the edge of zone 6 is, in general terms, at the edge of Greater London rather than a distance from anywhere.

Indeed though there are numerous cases where Zone 6 goes beyond Greater London:

• Thames Ditton and Hampton Court - which primarily serve an attraction within Greater London (Hampton Court) and presumably are deemed to have sufficient capacity to handle the ‘railheading’ that being in Zone 6 generates
• Stoneleigh, Ewell East and Ewell West
• Moor Park - albeit this is dual zoned with Zone 7
• Elstree & Borehamwood
• the eastern end of the Central line - here Zone 4 mostly goes to the boundary of Greater London, with Zone 6 stretching well into Essex. In fact, Roding Valley, Chigwell and Grange Hill are all in Essex yet are still in Zone 4!
• Whyteleaf, Upper Warlingham, Whyteleaf South and Caterham
• Chipstead, Kingswood, Tadworth and Tattenham Corner
• Banstead and Epsom Downs

The last Zone 4 station on a particular line varies from being as much as 11.9 miles from Charing Cross (Grange Hill) to as little as 7.8 miles (Meridian Water). Meanwhile the last Zone 6 station varies from as much as 16.6 miles (Harold Wood) to as little as 11 miles (Surbiton, in mainline or Guildford direction).

So as you say, there isn’t much geographical consistency - 11 miles from Charing Cross could equally put you in Essex yet in Zone 4 (Grange Hill), or in Greater London but in Zone 6 (Surbiton).

 

[frankmoh]

A bit ridiculous if this is the case, it's level with Cheshunt in zone 8 and even that is too high a zone for the distance from Central London. Both should be in zone 6 really, certainly no higher than 7. At some point, the London zones should be adjusted to make them more consistent by distance, maybe even reduce the number of fare zones altogether and finally align National Rail PAYG fares with TFL's.

Chigwell is in Zone 4 and is in Essex. I could go on a very long rant about why this upsets me but I will keep it biref.

Crews Hill (zone 6) is 11.5 miles away from King's Cross and is located within London. Chigwell (zone 4) is 11.7 miles away (via Woodford) from Liverpool Street and is outside of London.

Fare zones being based on distance is a complete lie nowadays, but if they did actually change it then my local station's fare zone would become further out and that's not good.

 

[Kilopylae]

TfL has made public transport more like travelling by car from an awareness of the costs perspective.

This is a very astute observation; I'll probably borrow this!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jun 2026 ==

Indeed though there are numerous cases where Zone 6 goes beyond Greater London:

• Thames Ditton and Hampton Court - which primarily serve an attraction within Greater London (Hampton Court) and presumably are deemed to have sufficient capacity to handle the ‘railheading’ that being in Zone 6 generates
• Stoneleigh, Ewell East and Ewell West
• Moor Park - albeit this is dual zoned with Zone 7
• Elstree & Borehamwood
• the eastern end of the Central line - here Zone 4 mostly goes to the boundary of Greater London, with Zone 6 stretching well into Essex. In fact, Roding Valley, Chigwell and Grange Hill are all in Essex yet are still in Zone 4!
• Whyteleaf, Upper Warlingham, Whyteleaf South and Caterham
• Chipstead, Kingswood, Tadworth and Tattenham Corner
• Banstead and Epsom Downs

It seems to me like there are two main centres of the anomaly - the very long-standing protrusion of the Central line quite deep into Essex and the south-western suburbs of London where the Greater London boundary is, as it were, impossible to see on a satellite map. Places like Thames Ditton are more obviously "defined out of" the natural shape of Greater London than towns like Cheshunt.

 

[MikeWh]

Here we go again. Most of these have reasons which people may or may not agree with.

Stoneleigh, Ewell East and Ewell West

Greater London protrudes significantly into Surrey at nearby Chessington so those stations soften the blow on the lines to Epsom.

Moor Park

The one which I don't really understand. Was zone 6 before becoming dual zoned so that people didn't need 6 to go between Watford and Amersham.

Elstree & Borehamwood

Part of the catchment area is within Greater London and the previous station is in zone 4.

the eastern end of the Central line - here Zone 4 mostly goes to the boundary of Greater London, with Zone 6 stretching well into Essex. In fact, Roding Valley, Chigwell and Grange Hill are all in Essex yet are still in Zone 4!

Two factors at work here. Zone 4 was expanded in both directions to include the whole Hainault loop, thus simplifying the fare structure and encouraging usage. And Essex gobbles up quite a bit of what possibly should be Greater London. See also the next comment for Epping.

Whyteleaf, Upper Warlingham, Whyteleaf South and Caterham

Chipstead, Kingswood, Tadworth and Tattenham Corner

Banstead and Epsom Downs

Thames Ditton and Hampton Court

All these are branch lines which end up to a few miles outside Greater London. Because they are branches there is no issue with longer distance fares being skewed and potentially offering even more splitting opportunities.

 

[Kilopylae]

All these are branch lines which end up to a few miles outside Greater London. Because they are branches there is no issue with longer distance fares being skewed and potentially offering even more splitting opportunities.

This makes good sense, thanks.

 

[Watershed]

Here we go again. Most of these have reasons which people may or may not agree with.

Greater London protrudes significantly into Surrey at nearby Chessington so those stations soften the blow on the lines to Epsom.

The one which I don't really understand. Was zone 6 before becoming dual zoned so that people didn't need 6 to go between Watford and Amersham.

Part of the catchment area is within Greater London and the previous station is in zone 4.

Two factors at work here. Zone 4 was expanded in both directions to include the whole Hainault loop, thus simplifying the fare structure and encouraging usage. And Essex gobbles up quite a bit of what possibly should be Greater London. See also the next comment for Epping.

All these are branch lines which end up to a few miles outside Greater London. Because they are branches there is no issue with longer distance fares being skewed and potentially offering even more splitting opportunities.

Oh absolutely, I’m not saying these places shouldn‘t be in Zone 6. More that it is anomalous in terms of distance that places such as Ashford (Surrey), Sunbury, and particularly Esher aren’t in Zone 6, when you can head a similar distance into Essex on the Central line, or into Hertfordshire on the Met line, and still be within Zone 6.

Charging Zone 8 fares for Swanley also seems rather mean considering the westbound ends of the platforms are less than 200 yards outside the Greater London boundary. Similarly (albeit ‘only’ Zone 7) with Waltham Cross and Kempton Park (un-zoned).