Enviro 400 New Design

[sonic2009]

Personally, i think they have nicked the lights from a Caetano Levante, but it does look rather upgraded!

Thoughts?


http://www.alexander-dennis.com/news/the-all-new-enviro400-designed-by-the-industry-for-the-industry/

The all-new Enviro400 – designed by the industry for the industry

The all-new Enviro400 – designed by the industry for the industry
– Lighter, more fuel efficient and more seats
– Radical new heating and ventilation
– Patented quick release system that
reduces glass replacement from three hours to three minutes

 

[Mojo]

Notice they say "all in pursuit of the industry’s Holy Grail, the rattle-proof bus." Not holding out much faith based on other ADL products...

 

[GaryMcEwan]

It wouldn't be an Enviro without the usual rattles though...

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It wouldn't be an Enviro without the usual rattles though...

True, and it is a subjective thing, but I rather like it! That said, see what it looks like in the flesh.

 

[Class 33]

Yep I like the look of them. And dual doors too! Could do with some of these for Bristol, especially on the cross-city services with the dual doors speeding up loading/unloading times.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Yep I like the look of them. And dual doors too! Could do with some of these for Bristol, especially on the cross-city services with the dual doors speeding up loading/unloading times.

Dual door will probably be for London. Do any other operators outside of London operate with dual doors?

 

[robertclark125]

I'd say evolution, as opposed to revolution. The changes are noticeable, yet subtle as well.

 

[Class 33]

Dual door will probably be for London. Do any other operators outside of London operate with dual doors?

Well, the only operators I'm aware of outside of London that have SOME dual door buses are Wessex Connect in Bristol. They have a few dual door double deckers.

I don't know why most operators don't seem to be keen on dual door buses. First Bristol got some ex-London dual door Gemini's a year or so back. But upon arrival they converted all these buses to remove the middle exit doors! Can't really understand the logic behind that. As Dual door buses are very helpful in speeding up loading/unloading times at busy bus stops, such as Haymarket and Horsefair on Bristol services 75 & 76.

 

[overthewater]

The simple fact is the buses need to be light weight, and reduced fuel consumption. Even First are after this now...

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Well, the only operators I'm aware of outside of London that have SOME dual door buses are Wessex Connect in Bristol. They have a few dual door double deckers.

I don't know why most operators don't seem to be keen on dual door buses. First Bristol got some ex-London dual door Gemini's a year or so back. But upon arrival they converted all these buses to remove the middle exit doors! Can't really understand the logic behind that. As Dual door buses are very helpful in speeding up loading/unloading times at busy bus stops, such as Haymarket and Horsefair on Bristol services 75 & 76.

Some very logical reasons why:

• Additional cost of maintenance
• Reduction in seating capacity (4-6 seats)
• Confusion of passengers
• Design of bus stops
• Risk of fare dodgers

There have been some instances where dual doored vehicles have come out of London and retained their doors though not necessarily used (e.g. First Olympians in Cornwall).

Go Ahead did receive some dual door Enviros for UniLink services or something in Southampton, IIRC

 

[radamfi]

I'm hard pushed to think of any country other than the UK outside London where two (or more) door buses aren't the norm.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

McGill's has ex Stagecoach London Tridents and ex First Bendies with the doors retained but not in use...

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'm hard pushed to think of any country other than the UK outside London where two (or more) door buses aren't the norm.

True but then again, double deck buses are not common outside the UK. And what about our inability (seemingly) to operate bendis! At least we get decent seat cushions (urban 90 seats excepted) whilst many European cities seem to have little or no padding

 

[radamfi]

True but then again, double deck buses are not common outside the UK. And what about our inability (seemingly) to operate bendis! At least we get decent seat cushions (urban 90 seats excepted) whilst many European cities seem to have little or no padding

Where double deckers do operate outside the UK, e.g. Berlin, Hong Kong, Singapore, they still generally have two or more doors.

Obviously 'Europe' is a big place and there are many different makes and models but if there is a 'standard' European bus it would have to be the Citaro. As we know, Citaros exist in the UK too although relatively small in number due to their high cost. I can't say I've noticed that much difference in Citaro seating between UK Citaros or continental ones. As an aside, I'm sure I read recently that the new version of the Citaro will not be available as an artic in RHD, which is presumably a direct result of the stigmatisation of artics in the UK.

On another forum I read, there is a member who is regularly scathing about seat cushioning on modern buses. He would much rather travel on an Olympian with bench seating. Is there actually a regulation which bans traditional bench seating? Dublin Bus still has lots of UK built modern double deckers with bench seating.

 

[hassaanhc]

Well, the only operators I'm aware of outside of London that have SOME dual door buses are Wessex Connect in Bristol. They have a few dual door double deckers.

I don't know why most operators don't seem to be keen on dual door buses. First Bristol got some ex-London dual door Gemini's a year or so back. But upon arrival they converted all these buses to remove the middle exit doors! Can't really understand the logic behind that. As Dual door buses are very helpful in speeding up loading/unloading times at busy bus stops, such as Haymarket and Horsefair on Bristol services 75 & 76.

Stagecoach in Cambridge have some dual door E400s for the Park & Ride services
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

On another forum I read, there is a member who is regularly scathing about seat cushioning on modern buses. He would much rather travel on an Olympian with bench seating. Is there actually a regulation which bans traditional bench seating? Dublin Bus still has lots of UK built modern double deckers with bench seating.

Don't get the issue, most modern buses still have seats with good padding

 

[fgwrich]

Notice they say "all in pursuit of the industry’s Holy Grail, the rattle-proof bus." Not holding out much faith based on other ADL products...

This is ADL afterall! I must admit, whilst I've never really been a fan of anything produced by Alexander (since the Royale) or Transbus and subsequently ADL, the more I look at that design, the more i'm staring to like this one! And I'm glad they've finally dropped that annoying curve at the bottom up the upper deck front window - it's from the Singapore export vehicles. The only area I would improve still though is that 'forehead' upperdeck windscreen, as having travelled on the current generation E400 and previous but similar designs from ELC/Optare, curved windscreens can make the interior rather warm!

I'd say evolution, as opposed to revolution. The changes are noticeable, yet subtle as well.

Funny that you should say that, as it almost reminds me of the MCV designs.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/London_Central_VM1_BJ11_XGZ_2.jpg

 

[starrymarkb]

It does make the Gemini front look rather ancient now.

As for rattles I guess it comes from being built to a price. Would operators be willing to pay a bit more for a better built bus?

 

[Class 33]

On another forum I read, there is a member who is regularly scathing about seat cushioning on modern buses. He would much rather travel on an Olympian with bench seating. Is there actually a regulation which bans traditional bench seating? Dublin Bus still has lots of UK built modern double deckers with bench seating.

Don't get the issue, most modern buses still have seats with good padding

You made it look as though I posted that quote. That wasn't me, that was radamfi.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

In some places a dual door bus might be able to get the front doors to a raised kerb but the middle doors might well be away from the kerb. Modern full length buses of all manufacturers seem to be too long for current bus lay-bys.

 

[hassaanhc]

You made it look as though I posted that quote. That wasn't me, that was radamfi.

Changed it, no idea what happened

 

[starrymarkb]

That's probably because the minimum specs for laybys are too small, there are some new car parks where the spaces are too small to hold a car! Wonder how many coachpark spaces can accommodate a 15m tri axle coach?

Interesting even small streets and villages in Geneva were being served by both single artics and bi-artics. There were keep clear markings at stops so vehicles could dock with kerbs raised to give level boarding at all of the vehicles 4 or 5 sets of doors (rather then just a short section for one door). Also in the UK the wall of the shelter is on the edge of the curb in most cases, which would block the second door.

With the need to provide a wheelchair space, single deck buses have become longer, but infrastructure still assumes a standard single deck.

 

[Polo Mint]

It looks rather good, and I agree it does have an MVC styling to it. Also it looks to have a bit of Wrightbus styling to it, particular around the headlights.

I am a fan of the old bench style seating, but it was annoying as people were splaid out across them and took over more cushion than people sat next to them.

 

[sonic2009]

I wonder if NXWM will see any of these new Enviro 400s? As i do believe they have signed a major contract with Alexander Dennis for the next few years.

 

[kevjs]

Dual door will probably be for London. Do any other operators outside of London operate with dual doors?

NCT's Unilink 4 Bendy buses. No idea if they are still in use though, I never see anyone get off them! (I used to get off the rear doors plenty of times when they were on Lime Line Go2 56).

Some of the motley crew of buses and operators serving the University of Nottingham also have/had dual door buses too.

 

[hassaanhc]

NCT's Unilink 4 Bendy buses. No idea if they are still in use though, I never see anyone get off them! (I used to get off the rear doors plenty of times when they were on Lime Line Go2 56).

Some of the motley crew of buses and operators serving the University of Nottingham also have/had dual door buses too.

When I went to the NTU open day on one of those in 2012 the rear doors were in use (although it was running non stop between Nottingham Station and Clifton Campus. Sadly I didn't get the grades to go to that uni :P

 

[Blindtraveler]

Afraid I'll never get frothed up about the junk ADL build, there cheep for a reason and now other companies are concentrating on weight and fule too I hope the market becomes more competative
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
whats the new heating and ventilation malarky all about?

 

[Be3G]

‘Lighter, more fuel efficient and more seats’ has me concerned – the E400 already has too many seats!

OK OK, you probably want me to justify that comment. Two of my three local London bus routes use the E400, and both of them serve multiple supermarkets and/or retail parks. On the old buses, there were nice big flat surfaces over the front wheels where people could place their purchases – and they were nearly always used as such. (About the only time they weren't was at the end of the school day when kids used them as seats instead, until the driver noticed and moaned.) Once they were replaced with the E400 though, you see people struggling on with multiple bags of shopping and not having anywhere to put it. All there is is that little shelf behind the seats above the front left wheel.

This problem is probably particularly noticeable where I live because it's quite a poor area with low levels of car ownership. Still, the removal of useful storage space is a definite trend I'm seeing on each new type of bus I encounter in London, so I wonder if the squash-in-as-many-seats-as-possible attitude is becoming a bit of an industry-wide problem.

 

[vicbury]

Not too sure about the look of this, but I'll wait til I see it in the flesh. Wonder if it'll be as bouncy as the current Enviro 400s. One good thing is that they haven't followed the trend for smaller windows - the new Geminis look horribly claustrophobic!

 

[dmncf]

Not too sure about the look of this, but I'll wait til I see it in the flesh. Wonder if it'll be as bouncy as the current Enviro 400s. One good thing is that they haven't followed the trend for smaller windows - the new Geminis look horribly claustrophobic!

From the outside the Wright Gemini 3 body certainly looks claustrophobic upstairs, but my experience of travelling inside Go-Ahead London's V6 is that I didn't feel any different on the inside of the bus. So in my opinion Wright have saved weight without any impact on passenger comfort.

Something that does surprise me about the Wright Gemini 3 body, such as is carried by V6, is that it appears to have some black-coloured glossy areas at its rear, which I would guess is back-painted glass and I would assume is as heavy as a window. Perhaps I'm wrong and the material is something much lighter.

 

[winston270twm]

I wonder if NXWM will see any of these new Enviro 400s? As i do believe they have signed a major contract with Alexander Dennis for the next few years.

Almost definitely!

The first 100 new ADL buses are due this year with deliveries due to commence from June. I suspect any E400's due within the next couple of months may be of the current design, with production switching to the new E400 later in 2014?

I've not seen anything to say when the new E400 will start production.