Enthusiasts or Chavs?

[Jord]

Well, it is nice to see a different viewpoint on this debate. I still think some of the group's actions were dangerous, but I think some people did get a little too worked up about it.

At least no-one got hurt.

Well said 'me123'

Abit off topic now but still on about the chav thing, when i can drive in less than a year i want to get a car and do it up etc, (e.g. 17" alloys, lowering springs, exhaust, and some interior changes), in your views is this chavvy? i personally don't see how it is because no way could chavs afford to do this and normally when you start to drive and hit 18 i like to think i will be mature and act like an adult and some cars you see driving about that are done up are spot on and the drivers/owners are certainly not chavs. so tell me what your opinions are, either way though i will still do it

 

[WessexWarrior]

All (entirely accurate) criticisms of the danger and stupidity aside, did anyone else find their actions just plain... sad?

 

[Mintona]

Well said 'me123'

Abit off topic now but still on about the chav thing, when i can drive in less than a year i want to get a car and do it up etc, (e.g. 17" alloys, lowering springs, exhaust, and some interior changes), in your views is this chavvy? i personally don't see how it is because no way could chavs afford to do this and normally when you start to drive and hit 18 i like to think i will be mature and act like an adult and some cars you see driving about that are done up are spot on and the drivers/owners are certainly not chavs. so tell me what your opinions are, either way though i will still do it

It's not chavvy, is boy-racery, there is a difference. I don't see why anyone would ruin their car like that though :?

 

[rmt]

Well said 'me123'

Abit off topic now but still on about the chav thing, when i can drive in less than a year i want to get a car and do it up etc, (e.g. 17" alloys, lowering springs, exhaust, and some interior changes), in your views is this chavvy? i personally don't see how it is because no way could chavs afford to do this and normally when you start to drive and hit 18 i like to think i will be mature and act like an adult and some cars you see driving about that are done up are spot on and the drivers/owners are certainly not chavs. so tell me what your opinions are, either way though i will still do it

It is 'Barry'.

 

[Spaceflower]

Whats this obsession with chavs? If you wanna spend lotsa money doing your car up nice its up to you, mine is a pegeout 306 with a cool crack down the bumper, a rear dint and sexy scratches down the wings. At least i dont have to take the wheelie bin out by hand or get out my car to open gates.

The best part....its never let me down once, not bad for a 1993 model.

 

[Meld]

Right the point here in tieing VALEG in with chavs doesn't make any sense at all. This thread keeps going round in circles and not progressing. The actions lineside by VALEG are a disgrace - END OF -

All the safety implications and fears for staff are not without reason, as various members have posted. I wouldn't like to guess the number of Rail byelaws that are broken. This group have certainly stirred things up here and on other forums. The general consensus being that they are moronic idiots. As proved by posting these stupid videos on public boards.

When NR or the TOC's see these vids who will be to blame It is hoped that anyone that works for a TOC and is recognised should be instantly dismissed -



COMMENTS for PASU or any other VALEG member hiding in the wings

Can you, in all honesty support the groups actions. Actions like this could and most probably will give NR and the TOCs what they want - the reason to ban us off the network

Can you be happy with that

Can you live with the fact that you and your group of idiotic friends ruined the hobby for everyone????

and finally GROW UP AND ACT IN A SENSIBLE MANNER - YOUR CREDIBILITY IS ZERO - DON'T DRAG US ALL DOWN WITH YOU

 

[VTDan]

They havent ruined anything for you. You obviously have a small mind and are acting if it has completely ruined your life!

So I think it is you who needs to grow up!

 

[Spaceflower]

on and on...and an.....and on.....ariston.

 

[Meld]

on and on...and an.....and on.....ariston.

If thats the best anyone can come up with now - then its time the thread was locked. Its all the same ground here that has been covered on WNXX forums

 

[Bighat]

If thats the best anyone can come up with now - then its time the thread was locked. Its all the same ground here that has been covered on WNXX forums

And the same circular arguements also surfaced when some graffitti vandals got killed by a train a few months back.

Then there was the moron 'skiing' down an escalator!

Unfortunately, whilst the majority of the membership abhor and ctiticise this hooligan behaviour, there are those who either think it is 'cool', or worse, make stupid (supportive) remarks, just for the hell of it; and by so doing actually encourage them in their dangerous, sometimes illegal, and certainly, antisocial, behaviour.

If ever there was an arguement for PERMANENT bans, this surely is it!

The bottom lines is we will, as a group (of enthusiasts), finish up being 'tarred with the same brush'. If you enjoy and value your hobby, ostracise these idiots. They are exhibitionists in the worse sense of the word. Do NOT give them succour by showing any kind of support, no matter how tacit!

 

[Spaceflower]

It is yourself, who, upon continuing to post on this thread, is in the very next breath is trying to close it.

and on it will probably go,..................................

Right the point here in tieing VALEG in with chavs doesn't make any sense at all. This thread keeps going round in circles and not progressing. The actions lineside by VALEG are a disgrace - END OF -

...but no such luck, you feel compelled to add more and more dont you

 

[Ascot]

Right the point here in tieing VALEG in with chavs doesn't make any sense at all. This thread keeps going round in circles and not progressing. The actions lineside by VALEG are a disgrace - END OF -

Sitting around at a train station in the freezing cold doing nothing all day can also be called a disgrace to the human race...

There harmless just out enjoying themselves, if trains the thing that does it for them then let it be. I'm sure you'd rather have them brickin ya house but until then leave it.

They seem people you can have a laugh and a joke with if they don't mess about on my train or put a threat to anyone then there is no real problem.

You both sit around on the platforms taking pictures of a train, some talk common and some of you talk posh and "oh this train is better than that oh you cannot like this train because is is made in the 1990s" both as bad as each other taking pictures and clotting the platforms up when you try and look to see if all the doors are shut so i really can't see a leg to stand on for ya.

Dangerous is jumping in front of the trains, blocking guards and drivers views, brickin trains. What there doing is enjoyin themselves, if you don't like it re brand yaself from Train Spotter.

 

[FusionRail]

yeh i see what Ascot means.. i must admit some of their antics were kind of 'funny' in a different sence [obviously not to the driver/people offended by them], but atleast they wernt causing damage

 

[Meld]

Having been around the scene since the mid 70's - I have seen a lot of happenings and to be honest the behavior we are seeing today makes me sick. The forums around being full of crap about VALEG.

Having a laugh and a joke is one thing, but using obscenities at a piece of machinery is another. To me no train nowadays is better than any other. Years ago when trains were trains and locos were locos we all had our pet likes n dislikes, we didn't carry on like this though. Light banter between the various groups WAS fun and it was banter.


Dangerous is standing the wrong side of the yellow line or too close to the platform edge when a high speed service approaches. Dont think drivers carry fresh underwear with them. One mistake and someones under the train - gone - total disruption to services in the area and inconvenience for rail users.

Mind you in the other hand I don't fancy the thought of trundling along at 25mph all day either
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They havent ruined anything for you. You obviously have a small mind and are acting if it has completely ruined your life!

So I think it is you who needs to grow up!

Its funny but at my age - I'd like to think I know better when it comes to behaving in public. No it hasn't ruined my life but whats right is right and wrong's wrong and they are definately the latter.

How ironic would it be if you flattened one of them this Saturday at Northallerton

 

[VTDan]

I would get out n kick their head in for being so stupid No. It would ruin my life.

I understand completely what you're saying about their behaviour, and both your views on it. However I have spoken to them about Saturday and have agreed they'll keep sensible, but continue to have fun.

Yes I will find out if the promise is kept

 

[Spaceflower]

What like its not common to hurl obscenities at pieces of machinery?

thats how the russians start their nuclear subs
how the flying scotsman broke the record
how i get to work on time
etc,etc

 

[devon_metro]

My view is that i don't want to be labelled as somebody with the same interest as them. Not the best impression when I would consider myself a fairly normal freelance photographer. I don't lump loads of kit round me, wear anoraks (!!) or take down numbers. We all have different ways of going about our hobby, its like another day of the week for me, and I think most people dislike the image given out by these planks.

 

[JonG]

I think most people dislike the image given out by these planks.

people like that bring the rail enthusiast community into disrepute & give it a bad name.

 

[VTDan]

people like that bring the rail enthusiast community into disrepute & give it a bad name.

Oh shutup! No they dont!

 

[RJ]

Oh shutup! No they dont!

Who are you kidding?

 

[Ascot]

people like that bring the rail enthusiast community into disrepute & give it a bad name.

Trainspotting a bad name? Ever been in to a station mess room?

I hear alot of things from all sorts of people and EVERYONE here has been (old enough) for a drink, had a laugh, we all do it our own ways, us teens don't drink with our lil finger out etc... we have our own life, we do things safely though as we have not got a death wish, if those teen spotters wanna then let them, they don't tell you to stop pesterin railway staff do they?

Now all can agree on that.

 

[Bonemaster]

Those individuals give every enthusiast a bad name end of, they are a danger to themselves, the railway, and the reputation of every rail enthusiast.

They show little remorse for there actions, and see it as a bit of fun.

We can talk about the what if scenarios until the cows come home but it didnt happen. (This time anyway).

These individuals are obviously proud of there bad behavior as they had the small mindedness to show the world on youtube.

I feel for every driver they have concerned, after all those were not 'hello' toots they were get the hell away from the platform toots, these guys give as much disgrace to the railways as the idiot who put his camera next to the track as a Voyager passed and the idiotic behavior behavior of certain individuals at Nuneaton that led to myself getting interrogated by the station manager as she was concerned about 'young' enthusiasts on the station

I know that this kind of behavior gives the over tight security guards and platform staff every excuse that they want to remove us from the stations.

 

[Ascot]

Those individuals give every enthusiast a bad name end of, they are a danger to themselves, the railway, and the reputation of every rail enthusiast.

They show little remorse for there actions, and see it as a bit of fun.

We can talk about the what if scenarios until the cows come home but it didnt happen. (This time anyway).

These individuals are obviously proud of there bad behavior as they had the small mindedness to show the world on youtube.

I feel for every driver they have concerned, after all those were not 'hello' toots they were get the hell away from the platform toots, these guys give as much disgrace to the railways as the idiot who put his camera next to the track as a Voyager passed and the idiotic behavior behavior of certain individuals at Nuneaton that led to myself getting interrogated by the station manager as she was concerned about 'young' enthusiasts on the station

I know that this kind of behavior gives the over tight security guards and platform staff every excuse that they want to remove us from the stations.

These lads didn't do no harm though, only thing people think is oh where's the anorak and beard and big book of numbers....

Stickin your head out of a train window is more bad than that and there's signs saying you shouldn't but you all still do it.

 

[Bonemaster]

These lads didn't do no harm though, only thing people think is oh where's the anorak and beard and big book of numbers....

Stickin your head out of a train window is more bad than that and there's signs saying you shouldn't but you all still do it.

These lads didnt do any harm to themselves this time. They have caused 18 pages of mainly condemnation on this forum and god knows how many on other forums. Just because it bucks a stereotype does not mean it is acceptable. Just imagine what the passengers thought on the station, if it has changed there opinions on railway safety, traveling by train, or on the railway enthusiast community. Trust me you dont need an injury to do harm.

The fact that the stereotype is a beard and a big book of numbers by no means makes it a decent and considerate form of behavior, I'm not saying dont have fun, but act within the boundaries that you would expect other to act in the same area, if there were a load of chavs waving a union jack, shouting and swearing, and sticking there arms out at passing trains to get a toot on the horn, dare I say it in there opinion only having fun we would all be (those involved included) up in uproar criticising how antisocial stations are and intimidating these chavs make the station to passengers. In these terms sticking your head out of the window is much less bad than the actions of these few tools

And after all trains do not run for us to enjoy them they run for passengers, and provide employment for the staff.

 

[Ascot]

These lads didnt do any harm to themselves this time. They have caused 18 pages of mainly condemnation on this forum and god knows how many on other forums. Just because it bucks a stereotype does not mean it is acceptable. Just imagine what the passengers thought on the station, if it has changed there opinions on railway safety, traveling by train, or on the railway enthusiast community. Trust me you dont need an injury to do harm.

The fact that the stereotype is a beard and a big book of numbers by no means makes it a decent and considerate form of behavior, I'm not saying dont have fun, but act within the boundaries that you would expect other to act in the same area, if there were a load of chavs waving a union jack, shouting and swearing, and sticking there arms out at passing trains to get a toot on the horn, dare I say it in there opinion only having fun we would all be (those involved included) up in uproar criticising how antisocial stations are and intimidating these chavs make the station to passengers. In these terms sticking your head out of the window is much less bad than the actions of these few tools

And after all trains do not run for us to enjoy them they run for passengers, and provide employment for the staff.

SO if they didn't do it this time what's the whole point of this then?

They are reasonable to know what to do.

To any passenger the reaction is sad to anyone taking pictures as they are prob out going shopping havin a laugh and enjoying it... 2 sides i guess to every argument and have to have each half to make the 1.

 

[Bonemaster]

SO if they didn't do it this time what's the whole point of this then?

They are reasonable to know what to do.

To any passenger the reaction is sad to anyone taking pictures as they are prob out going shopping havin a laugh and enjoying it... 2 sides i guess to every argument and have to have each half to make the 1.

I'm sorry I don't see that no physical damage done means nothing done wrong. It is a ludicrous argument.

If I go and play chicken on the M6 and dont get injured am I reasonable to know what to do i.e. avoid the cars, because I would only be doing it for fun, and have I not done anything wrong, as I was able to make a decision over what is and what is not safe in my opinion.

 

[Ascot]

I'm sorry I don't see that no physical damage done means nothing done wrong. It is a ludicrous argument.

If I go and play chicken on the M6 and dont get injured am I reasonable to know what to do i.e. avoid the cars, because I would only be doing it for fun, and have I not done anything wrong, as I was able to make a decision over what is and what is not safe in my opinion.

There was none at all, nothing could of happened, to me it just looked like a bunch of train spotters out enjoying what they do best, don't matter what clothes they ware or the posture of their back, still looks the same...

What's Chicken got to do if they wasn't playing chicken?

 

[Bonemaster]

There was none at all, nothing could of happened, to me it just looked like a bunch of train spotters out enjoying what they do best, don't matter what clothes they ware or the posture of their back, still looks the same...

What's Chicken got to do if they wasn't playing chicken?

It was an example of similar behaviour without a train involved silly me

Enjoyment of ones own past-times should not come at the cost of anybody else's enjoyment

 

[VTDan]

These lads didnt do any harm to themselves this time. They have caused 18 pages of mainly condemnation on this forum and god knows how many on other forums. Just because it bucks a stereotype does not mean it is acceptable. Just imagine what the passengers thought on the station, if it has changed there opinions on railway safety, traveling by train, or on the railway enthusiast community. Trust me you dont need an injury to do harm.

The fact that the stereotype is a beard and a big book of numbers by no means makes it a decent and considerate form of behavior, I'm not saying dont have fun, but act within the boundaries that you would expect other to act in the same area, if there were a load of chavs waving a union jack, shouting and swearing, and sticking there arms out at passing trains to get a toot on the horn, dare I say it in there opinion only having fun we would all be (those involved included) up in uproar criticising how antisocial stations are and intimidating these chavs make the station to passengers. In these terms sticking your head out of the window is much less bad than the actions of these few tools

And after all trains do not run for us to enjoy them they run for passengers, and provide employment for the staff.

They've caused all this because you're so sad and are acting like they broke the fookin law!

Honestly you'd have thought it was a crime. What dont you understand about having fun...? They're not out there to cause harm!

 

[Mojo]

This thread is now at seven pages, and I feel has been discussed enough now, especially now we just seem to be trading insults (deleted posts) and repeating ourselves. It is now locked.