England's new three-tier lockdown system

[Skimpot flyer]

Dr Vernon Coleman posted a video on YouTube months ago claiming research had shown coronavirus transmission could be cut by 50% when only one foot is in contact with the ground, and the government were, therefore, mandating hopping on one leg when in public spaces.
A joke, obviously, but if Fearguson or SAGE suggested it, I’m not 100% confident it wouldn’t be the next emergency measure introduced...

But people drinking lager in large quantities are less likely to observe physical distancing, which is generally recognized as effective against viral spread.

people wearing face coverings in large quantities are less likely to observe physical distancing as they mentally feel confident that they are completely protected

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Oct 2020 ==

What about food shops during this "total shutdown"?

Would they be closed, and if so how do you propose that people get enough food to eat?

And what about the effect on the businesses that are closed and people's mental health, or does that not concern you?

I wasn’t the one advocating lockdowns - the person I replied to mentioned the subject.
I am opposed to the current stupidity, and think further restrictions are a terrible idea

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Oct 2020 ==

Couldn't agree more.

Nicola Sturgeon is one of the worst.

Fancy "allowing" pubs in the Central Belt of Scotland to open until 6pm, but not letting them serve any alcohol.

You could almost believe it was April Fools Day.

As if the virus cares whether you are drinking Tennents Lager or orange juice and lemonade. (The risk of transmission is the same)

Nobody has pointed out that all pubs are now staying open 60 minutes later than they were last week. The fact that the clocks on the wall have been tampered with is surely a Public Health scandal ???

 

[birchesgreen]

Be careful about putting ideas into people's heads, there are some amongst us who'd go for a full two week lockdown despite the carnage it would cause at supermarkets. Hell someone even suggested compulsory random checks of your food stores to ensure people had two weeks worth of supplies at all times!

I doubt even Hancock is desperate enough to turn to me for advice!

 

[duncanp]

But people drinking lager in large quantities are less likely to observe physical distancing, which is generally recognized as effective against viral spread.

True, but you would have to drink a lot of lager to get so drunk that you are not going to observe physical distancing.

In any case, everyone has to be seated at a separate table, and staff can intervene if customers are not observing the rules, and refuse to serve them any more drinks if they don't comply.

The truth is that this absolute nonsense enables Mrs Sturgeon to claim that she has re-opened pubs in the Central Belt of Scotland, when in fact the conditions are so restrictive that they might as well stay closed, which I suspect many of them will be.

 

[ChrisC]

The complete shambles of a situation in Nottinghamshire continues and gets worse.
It has just been announced that now the whole of Nottinghamshire is to move into Tier 3. This is to happen for the whole county from Friday. This means a 24 hour delay for those areas which were already planning to go into Tier 3 tomorrow. There still are no final details released about what restrictions will be in place. How can businesses plan ahead when things change so quickly? All those businesses in Nottingham which thought they would be closed from tomorrow, and have made plans including staffing for this, could have stayed open for another day.

 

[MikeWM]

Apparently Bristol is to be 'Tier 1 plus', whatever that is supposed to mean.

So we now have 1, 1 plus, 2, possibly 2b, 3 (with differing restrictions in different places), and possibly 4 to come.

For a system whose point was 'consistency' and 'simplification'.

Words fail me.

 

[duncanp]

Apparently Bristol is to be 'Tier 1 plus', whatever that is supposed to mean.

So we now have 1, 1 plus, 2, possibly 2b, 3 (with differing restrictions in different places), and possibly 4 to come.

For a system whose point was 'consistency' and 'simplification'.

Words fail me.

So that is six different levels, one more than Scotland.

Mrs Sturgeon will be furious, and no doubt introduce a seventh level of restriction in Scotland, whereby any pub in the Central Belt that serves alcohol is immediately demolished and the bar staff summarily executed.

 

[Trackman]

Apparently Bristol is to be 'Tier 1 plus', whatever that is supposed to mean.

So we now have 1, 1 plus, 2, possibly 2b, 3 (with differing restrictions in different places), and possibly 4 to come.

For a system whose point was 'consistency' and 'simplification'.

Words fail me.

Just heard about it on the news.
I really, really do despair on the handling of the whole thing.

 

[DB]

People get 2 weeks supplies beforehand, with help for those who can't. There wouldn't be any deliveries from couriers for 2 weeks. Basically it would be xmas day for 2 weeks.

I didn't say it would be something that should be done just that would have more effect than the usual lockdown they try which has so many holes in it to be pointless and just causes economic damage for little benefit.

And what will that achieve? Kick the can down the road by two weeks. So what? It'll then just start spreading again (it's prime time of year for this, of course). Suppressing it is simply not viable and trying to do so serves no useful purpose but causes massive damage to society.

 

[adc82140]

People get 2 weeks supplies beforehand, with help for those who can't. There wouldn't be any deliveries from couriers for 2 weeks. Basically it would be xmas day for 2 weeks.

I didn't say it would be something that should be done just that would have more effect than the usual lockdown they try which has so many holes in it to be pointless and just causes economic damage for little benefit.

I know you're only playing devil's advocate, but I'm sure that the population would not tolerate having to live off canned or dried food for a fortnight. And before anyone mentions wartime, that was as a result of an enemy flinging bombs at us, not the actions of our own government.

 

[Crossover]

Apparently Bristol is to be 'Tier 1 plus', whatever that is supposed to mean.

So we now have 1, 1 plus, 2, possibly 2b, 3 (with differing restrictions in different places), and possibly 4 to come.

For a system whose point was 'consistency' and 'simplification'.

Words fail me.

Has someone from the railway industry had a hand in this - I mean, we all know how well 'simplification' worked in the railway/ticketing!

 

[MikeWM]

Has someone from the railway industry had a hand in this - I mean, we all know how well 'simplification' worked in the railway/ticketing!

Yes, the similarities are quite striking, now you mention it!

 

[ChrisC]

I really thought that the three tiers were a good idea. I expected them to be standardised, at least throughout England, so that we knew exactly what was included in each tier. With all these local variations the tiers are just meaningless and things now seem even more complicated than before. Businesses should not be left waiting to find out how moving into a different tier will effect them, if the tiers were standardised we would all know exactly what to expect, whether we agreed with it or not.

I have been very compliant with the rules right from the beginning, and although I have never caused a fuss and been vocal, I have been quite annoyed and disappointed when I have witnessed others blatantly ignoring the rules. I’m afraid when I look at how things are currently being handled in Nottinghamshire I’m just so fed up with it all and feel like giving up trying to keep up with it all. It’s only the fact that I am in regular contact with my elderly mother that means I have to continue to be very careful what I do and where I go. I can understand why some very elderly people are just getting on with their lives feeling that they haven’t got much time left anyway. I’m only in my early 60’s but feel that this has been a completely wasted year and even at my time of life I don’t want to waste many more.

 

[birchesgreen]

I know you're only playing devil's advocate, but I'm sure that the population would not tolerate having to live off canned or dried food for a fortnight. And before anyone mentions wartime, that was as a result of an enemy flinging bombs at us, not the actions of our own government.

Sitting around the camp fire eating beans on end for days, what could go wrong?

 

[kristiang85]

Covid rules: Confusion as social clubs serve alcohol in tier 3 areas

But government says social clubs cannot sell alcohol on site unless served with a substantial meal.

www.bbc.co.uk

This just gets more and more convoluted.

An apparent loophole in government rules has caused confusion over whether social clubs are subject to tier three Covid restrictions on serving alcohol.

In areas placed in tier three, pubs and bars must close unless they are serving substantial meals.

But some social clubs are continuing to serve alcohol to members without a substantial meal after their local councils told them it was permitted.

The Department for Health and Social Care has been contacted for comment.

There are thousands of members clubs across England, including conservative clubs, working men's clubs and sports clubs.

Councils in Wirral, Preston and Fylde have all advised their local social clubs that the discrepancy exists because they hold club premises certificates and not premises licences.

 

[Class 33]

SAGE's modus operandi has become very clear to me, kick the problem down the road with a succession of lockdowns until either a vaccine becomes available or the virus reaches the vast majority of us, then claim that it would have been worse based on their dodgy modelling. Frankly a PM & their cabinet worth even a bit of their salt should be putting this lot back into the back room & stop their publicity drive.

I wonder if rubbing shoulders with the Eatonian twits in power has given them ambitions to join the lucrative after-dinner speech circuits?

I'm absolutely sick of SAGE and their constant pestering for a national lockdown as soon as possible. And they're at it again this afternoon. Can't they just shut up??

1627 update from Sky News.....

England should have circuit breaker 'as soon as possible' - SAGE member

Member of independent SAGE, Dr Gabriel Scally says England should have a circuit-breaker lockdown 'as soon as possible for at least two weeks, preferably four to six weeks' to give the government a chance to "revamp" the test and trace system.

A full national lockdown preferably for 4 to 6 weeks??!! No thoughts atall from them to the catastrophic effect this will have on many many business, and many many people's livelihoods and mental health. NO, NO, NO, NO!!! It just can't happen.

 

[kristiang85]

Does SAGE have any health economists on board? I just can't believe they come up with this stuff without thinking of the ramifications.

Luckily Boris seems to be ignoring them... so far.

 

[greyman42]

I think and many people do, that for England we need to go back to as close to March 23rd for 2 or 3 weeks.

This 2 or 3 weeks is constantly brought up by people. Would the lockdown be for 2 weeks or 3 weeks, which one is it?

 

[Domh245]

That's independent SAGE you've quoted there, ie the people who are too extreme even for the Government.

 

[philjo]

Apparently Bristol is to be 'Tier 1 plus', whatever that is supposed to mean.

So we now have 1, 1 plus, 2, possibly 2b, 3 (with differing restrictions in different places), and possibly 4 to come.

For a system whose point was 'consistency' and 'simplification'.

Words fail me.

BBC radio reporting that The Government have rejected the tier 1 plus proposal for Bristol on the basis there are only 3 tiers in England. It was also mentioned that North Yorkshire may soon be heading into tier 2.

Coronavirus: North Yorkshire tier one status 'hanging by a thread'

A decision on tougher restrictions for North Yorkshire could be made within days.

www.bbc.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Oct 2020 ==

Latest update -Nottinghamshire will also have 9pm curfew for alcohol sales in shops.

Covid-19: Nottinghamshire tier 3 to feature 9pm alcohol rule

Alcohol cannot be sold after 9pm in shops under tier three rules, and various businesses must shut.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[DB]

North Yorkshire? Right. So what happens in Scarborough or Harrogate is relevant to Hawes or Skipton or Richmond is it?

Doing it on the basis of government areas is nonsense when it's a masssive area (largest English county), and is sparsely populated - what's happening in the only two larger towns, Harrrogate and Scarborough, could have an impact on places many miles away.

 

[DannyMich2018]

This 2 or 3 weeks is constantly brought up by people. Would the lockdown be for 2 weeks or 3 weeks, which one is it?

Ireland, Northern Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Germany, Italy, France are all now or will be going into further restrictions/Lockdowns, it's a case of England needs to follow, we are already having 200+plus daily deaths and 20, 000 new cases daily, yes many hospitals are not at capacity (at the minute) and the Nightingales will help to relieve the pressure-to enable the NHS to still be open for non-Covid care we need to go further now so we can have at least some Christmas. Of course no one wants this but it's a case of we need it otherwise the NHS will struggle this winter.

 

[DB]

Ireland, Northern Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Germany, Italy, France are all now or will be going into further restrictions/Lockdowns, it's a case of England needs to follow, we are already having 200+plus daily deaths and 20, 000 new cases daily, yes many hospitals are not at capacity (at the minute) and the Nightingales will help to relieve the pressure-to enable the NHS to still be open for non-Covid care we need to go further now so we can have at least some Christmas. Of course no one wants this but it's a case of we need it otherwise the NHS will struggle this winter.

The NHS strugles every winter due to being under-funded for years.

We absolutely do not "need" to follow - it is massively damaging to society and is as futile as trying to prevent the tide from coming it.

 

[Yew]

Ireland, Northern Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Germany, Italy, France are all now or will be going into further restrictions/Lockdowns, it's a case of England needs to follow, we are already having 200+plus daily deaths and 20, 000 new cases daily, yes many hospitals are not at capacity (at the minute) and the Nightingales will help to relieve the pressure-to enable the NHS to still be open for non-Covid care we need to go further now so we can have at least some Christmas. Of course no one wants this but it's a case of we need it otherwise the NHS will struggle this winter.

I'd forgotten that lockdowns are perfect techniques, with no downsides or collateral damage at all. How much suffering are you willing to cause on your deluded quest to 'control' a respiratory illness.

 

[Darandio]

Ireland, Northern Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Germany, Italy, France are all now or will be going into further restrictions/Lockdowns, it's a case of England needs to follow, we are already having 200+plus daily deaths and 20, 000 new cases daily, yes many hospitals are not at capacity (at the minute) and the Nightingales will help to relieve the pressure-to enable the NHS to still be open for non-Covid care we need to go further now so we can have at least some Christmas. Of course no one wants this but it's a case of we need it otherwise the NHS will struggle this winter.

One question. Then what?

 

[birchesgreen]

Lockdown now would probably cause civil war

 

[Darandio]

Lockdown now would probably cause civil war

I suppose war is an upgrade from the unrest that people have been constantly predicting for 7 months now.

 

[DB]

I suppose war is an upgrade from the unrest that people have been constantly predicting for 7 months now.

CLearly CIvil War is an over-statement, but there will be abreaking point sooner or later - it's already happening in Italy.

 

[MalaiseForever]

Is anybody seriously following the restrictions in the tiers?

 

[Romsey]

So that is six different levels, one more than Scotland.

Mrs Sturgeon will be furious, and no doubt introduce a seventh level of restriction in Scotland, whereby any pub in the Central Belt that serves alcohol is immediately demolished and the bar staff summarily executed.

Just a question, have you been looking at the "Scarfolk" website?

Scarfolk Council

Scarfolk is a town in North West England that did not progress beyond 1979. Instead, the entire decade of the 1970s loops ad infinitum. Here in Scarfolk, pagan rituals blend seamlessly with science; hauntology is a compulsory subject at school, and everyone must be in bed by 8pm because they are...

scarfolk.blogspot.com

 

[adc82140]

Ireland, Northern Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Germany, Italy, France are all now or will be going into further restrictions/Lockdowns, it's a case of England needs to follow, we are already having 200+plus daily deaths and 20, 000 new cases daily, yes many hospitals are not at capacity (at the minute) and the Nightingales will help to relieve the pressure-to enable the NHS to still be open for non-Covid care we need to go further now so we can have at least some Christmas. Of course no one wants this but it's a case of we need it otherwise the NHS will struggle this winter.

Twice as many people died of other viral respiratory illnesses than died with Covid yesterday. Should we lock down twice as hard because of those?