Jordy
Established Member
Herdster, no need to resort to personal insults it was only an opinion. Lets not turn this into an argument
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England V Germany
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Jordy
Established Member
Yes but the arguing point still stands, calling someone a looser isn't likely to go down particularly well.
I do not like or enjoy football, but, as a sports coach, I do find some aspects of high-profile games interesting. In this tournament, it is noticeable that very few of the players who ply their trade in the premiership are doing well (or how many are, in fact, injured). This cannot be because of the number of games played, which is about the same as that in Germany. Now, from a coaching point of view, I wonder if too much emphasis is being placed on athletic muscularity, being able to ride and make tackles, rather than balance, and speed. When the muscle is bulked up it is easier to become injured, and it is more affected by changes in altitude. But, playing a "Premiership" style may well be exciting if done well, but does not match the more continental, "balance" style. Terry and Rooney are both "blood and thunder" players (albeit skillful) and were played out of all four games - I mention those two only as the higher profile ones, as all the others were as bad.
I also wonder how divisive having an ex-captain who was obviously wandering round telling anyone who would listen that he was the real captain would be? And an affronted machismo such as JT's is always less effective than a calm control.
I also wonder how divisive having an ex-captain who was obviously wandering round telling anyone who would listen that he was the real captain would be? And an affronted machismo such as JT's is always less effective than a calm control.
Oh forget it , obviously a humourless day today.
I do indeed have an opinion on the England situation . The players are a bunch of over paid prima donnas who shouldn't even be getting paid for representing their country , the honour should be enough. It is only going to get worse unless the bubble bursts and a major Premier team goes bust . In a way i actually hope this happens even if it is my beloved Liverpool . The situation is totally unsustainable , wages of £120,000 per week is outragous when you consider the poverty i have seen in some parts of the world.
I do indeed have an opinion on the England situation . The players are a bunch of over paid prima donnas who shouldn't even be getting paid for representing their country , the honour should be enough. It is only going to get worse unless the bubble bursts and a major Premier team goes bust . In a way i actually hope this happens even if it is my beloved Liverpool . The situation is totally unsustainable , wages of £120,000 per week is outragous when you consider the poverty i have seen in some parts of the world.
313103
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Well the result today wasn't what i expected, although i was expecting England to lose. With regard the issue of goal line technology it would be good to use it football is the sport where it isn't used.
As an aside if your watching the Mexico v Argentina game you will see another reason why it should be used, Tevez first goal was clearly offside and the TV screens in the stadium played the goal being scored, this showed the offside and that infuriated the Mexicans who immediately surrounded the fourth official.
I hope my spelling and pronunciation is correct apologies if it is not, i do not have a cse let alone a degree in English.
Oh yes and by the way it is a football related thread within a railway forum, people have other hobbies outside of trains.
As an aside if your watching the Mexico v Argentina game you will see another reason why it should be used, Tevez first goal was clearly offside and the TV screens in the stadium played the goal being scored, this showed the offside and that infuriated the Mexicans who immediately surrounded the fourth official.
I hope my spelling and pronunciation is correct apologies if it is not, i do not have a cse let alone a degree in English.
Oh yes and by the way it is a football related thread within a railway forum, people have other hobbies outside of trains.
Geezertronic
Established Member
The decision not to award the Lampard goal was truely terrible and one that will cost the officials their position for the remainder of the World Cup and I hope Sepp Blatter has rotton egg on his ugly anti-English (and anti-Irish for that matter) face 
I only saw replays of the Klose goal a couple of times but surely he was offside when the Keeper kicked the ball?
Either way, England were crap as they have been all World Cup and Germany were better. Why on earth would you bring Heskey on when we need to score goals? He shouldn't be allowed to even wash the England kit let alone wear it. Where was Peter Crouch when we needed goals?
I'm just glad it was not 5-1, we've still got that memory (in a game that Heskey scored!?!?!).
I only saw replays of the Klose goal a couple of times but surely he was offside when the Keeper kicked the ball?
Either way, England were crap as they have been all World Cup and Germany were better. Why on earth would you bring Heskey on when we need to score goals? He shouldn't be allowed to even wash the England kit let alone wear it. Where was Peter Crouch when we needed goals?
I'm just glad it was not 5-1, we've still got that memory (in a game that Heskey scored!?!?!).
CarterUSM
Established Member
As far as I know, you cannot be offside from a goal kick.
Geezertronic
Established Member
CarterUSM
Established Member
I cannot believe not one England player even got a touch of the ball at that goal.
Think Upson commented after the match that it hung in the air far longer than a normal ball would, and changed direction as well. So we can thank those wonderful people at Loughborough University for making such a wonderful ball!
Ivo
Established Member
That GK goal was a one-off. It is very rare for a 'keeper to get an assist!
gordonthemoron
Established Member
after germany scored the first 2 goals, England seemed to come alive a bit and actually scored 1 or was it 2 goals. However, they were dreadful in the second half
Dreadful seems a touch kind. I#ve now watched the game twice, and England appeared worse on the second viewing. Their control was second rate, passing poor and movement practically non existent.
I have reluctantyl concluded that these so called world class players (Terry, Lampard, Rooney, Gerrard) are deficient in basic skills compared to other those in other countries. I believe that the fact they are mostly surrounded by imported players when playing for their clubs makes them appear better than they are when playing in the Premiership.
One final point, I really can't understand how Glen Johnson, Aaron Lennon, Matthew Upson, Emile Heskey and Gareth Barry are considered to be competent international players.
I have reluctantyl concluded that these so called world class players (Terry, Lampard, Rooney, Gerrard) are deficient in basic skills compared to other those in other countries. I believe that the fact they are mostly surrounded by imported players when playing for their clubs makes them appear better than they are when playing in the Premiership.
One final point, I really can't understand how Glen Johnson, Aaron Lennon, Matthew Upson, Emile Heskey and Gareth Barry are considered to be competent international players.
Geezertronic
Established Member
At the end of the day, who would you replace them with? A Manager can only work with the players he has available to him.
Saying that, playing Gerrard on the left was (and will forever be) a big mistake. The fact is that IMO Gerrard and Lampard should not play together in a standard 4-4-2 formation, a 4-4-1-1 formation yes (with two wide players) or even a 4-5-1 ...
That's the trouble. There simply isn't the choice of English players now that there was 30 or even 20 years ago.
Gerrard is not a left sided player. It's an old adage though, that the best individuals don't always make the best team. too many managers have tried to find ways of picking both Lampard and Gerrard which haven't worked!
What I find interesting is the misery created by the reult of the game vs Germany amongst substantial amounts of the UK population of whom
1. The majority of which have not seen those selected for England play*.
2. The majority of which are not supporters of the England team**.
3. The majority of which did not watch the match***.
* Watching PL players play requires attendance at a football match as opposed to staring at a television. At the risk of labouring the point, watching telly is not the same as watching a football match. The majority of the miserables will have watched few, if any, PL matches. Thus they have little idea of the merits of those concerned.
** Supporting a football team requires a financial and/or vocal contribution. Neither of which involves a television. It is an abuse of language to suggest otherwise. Only a trivial percentage of that crew will have turned up at Wembley or wherever to support "their" team.
*** They were merely staring at a television. If they were supporters they would have been in Saffy.
So we have a multitude of "supporters" who are complete fakes. Pathetic bunch of self-delusionists. I ought to feel sympathy for those who have such mental problems but I do not.
Having said that, I continue to be mystified as to why a bunch of useful or better PL players performed so badly. Not that I have much of an angle, I did rather hope that they would advance to the final.
1. The majority of which have not seen those selected for England play*.
2. The majority of which are not supporters of the England team**.
3. The majority of which did not watch the match***.
* Watching PL players play requires attendance at a football match as opposed to staring at a television. At the risk of labouring the point, watching telly is not the same as watching a football match. The majority of the miserables will have watched few, if any, PL matches. Thus they have little idea of the merits of those concerned.
** Supporting a football team requires a financial and/or vocal contribution. Neither of which involves a television. It is an abuse of language to suggest otherwise. Only a trivial percentage of that crew will have turned up at Wembley or wherever to support "their" team.
*** They were merely staring at a television. If they were supporters they would have been in Saffy.
So we have a multitude of "supporters" who are complete fakes. Pathetic bunch of self-delusionists. I ought to feel sympathy for those who have such mental problems but I do not.
Having said that, I continue to be mystified as to why a bunch of useful or better PL players performed so badly. Not that I have much of an angle, I did rather hope that they would advance to the final.
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Donny Dave
Established Member
I'll speak for myself here, not for anyone else on the forum ....
1. I can not afford to go watch a premier league team. In fact, now that Hull Sh*tty have been relegated, the nearest premier league teams to me are those in Manchester. PS. I may not have seen an England international play, but I was at Glanford Park when a certain Brazilian striker played one of his last games for Manchester City last season
2. I am a loud and proud supporter of Scunthorpe United. While I can't afford to goto every match, I do make an effort to get to at least 1 match a month at Glanford Park. I have also been to support Scunthorpe United at the old Wembley when they won promotion from League 2 in 1999. Have you ever been to Wembley?
3. I dispute you wording on this point. Watching a match involves seeing it live no matter what medium is involved, be it on television or at the ground.
Was you in South Africa to cheer on the team? I wasn't, for the reason that I can not afford to.
The only England fans that went to South Africa to cheer on the team where those lucky enough to get 4 or more weeks off work, and had several thousand pounds available to pay for air fares, hotels in various parts of South Africa, transport costs over there as well as spending money.
Here's a few questions for Alex ....
1. How many Premier League games to you goto each season, and where?
2. Do you ever goto Wembley to watch England?
3. Do you ever watch matches on television?
4. Do you ever travel abroad to watch England?
If any of your answers are the following ....
1. None
2. No
3. Yes
4. No
Then your a damn hypocrite, no matter how you try to bluster your way through it ....
1. I can not afford to go watch a premier league team. In fact, now that Hull Sh*tty have been relegated, the nearest premier league teams to me are those in Manchester. PS. I may not have seen an England international play, but I was at Glanford Park when a certain Brazilian striker played one of his last games for Manchester City last season
2. I am a loud and proud supporter of Scunthorpe United. While I can't afford to goto every match, I do make an effort to get to at least 1 match a month at Glanford Park. I have also been to support Scunthorpe United at the old Wembley when they won promotion from League 2 in 1999. Have you ever been to Wembley?
3. I dispute you wording on this point. Watching a match involves seeing it live no matter what medium is involved, be it on television or at the ground.
Was you in South Africa to cheer on the team? I wasn't, for the reason that I can not afford to.
The only England fans that went to South Africa to cheer on the team where those lucky enough to get 4 or more weeks off work, and had several thousand pounds available to pay for air fares, hotels in various parts of South Africa, transport costs over there as well as spending money.
Here's a few questions for Alex ....
1. How many Premier League games to you goto each season, and where?
2. Do you ever goto Wembley to watch England?
3. Do you ever watch matches on television?
4. Do you ever travel abroad to watch England?
If any of your answers are the following ....
1. None
2. No
3. Yes
4. No
Then your a damn hypocrite, no matter how you try to bluster your way through it ....
Alex, your post and harsh words remind me very much of those rugby union fans in Wales who see themselves as better than others because they deem themselves to be more committed to the sport just because they can afford the time and the money to travel to matches.
The fact remains that the national rugby team in Wales, and the national football team in England, both involve a large element of casual support. It's insulting to those people who want to support the national side yet cannot, for whatever reason, regularly attend PL matches in person. Calling such fans fakes, pathetic and delusional reveals far more about your own mind set than those you refer to, and does you no credit.
How on earth do you expect a supporter in Carlisle or Plymouth to travel to matches at the other end of the country just so they can earn your respect? Suyrely it;s better that they support and attend their local teams? Why can;t they go to Home Park every week or so and support England on the TV, and by buying a replica shirt?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'll speak for myself here, not for anyone else on the forum ....
1. I can not afford to go watch a premier league team. In fact, now that Hull Sh*tty have been relegated, the nearest premier league teams to me are those in Manchester. PS. I may not have seen an England international play, but I was at Glanford Park when a certain Brazilian striker played one of his last games for Manchester City last season
2. I am a loud and proud supporter of Scunthorpe United. While I can't afford to goto every match, I do make an effort to get to at least 1 match a month at Glanford Park. I have also been to support Scunthorpe United at the old Wembley when they won promotion from League 2 in 1999. Have you ever been to Wembley?
3. I dispute you wording on this point. Watching a match involves seeing it live no matter what medium is involved, be it on television or at the ground.
Was you in South Africa to cheer on the team? I wasn't, for the reason that I can not afford to.
The only England fans that went to South Africa to cheer on the team where those lucky enough to get 4 or more weeks off work, and had several thousand pounds available to pay for air fares, hotels in various parts of South Africa, transport costs over there as well as spending money.
Here's a few questions for Alex ....
1. How many Premier League games to you goto each season, and where?
2. Do you ever goto Wembley to watch England?
3. Do you ever watch matches on television?
4. Do you ever travel abroad to watch England?
If any of your answers are the following ....
1. None
2. No
3. Yes
4. No
Then your a damn hypocrite, no matter how you try to bluster your way through it ....
I couldn;t agree more!
90019
Established Member
So you go to watch every single game England play in person? Including going abroad to watch?
If so, I'm curious what job you have that gives enough holidays to allow this and also pays well enough to do so as well.
David has a few questions for me
1. How many Premier League games to you goto each season, and where?
33 out of 38 PL matches at rather too many locations to list here. Additionally 10 out of 12 CL matches again at many places along with 2 out of 2 FAC matches.
2. Do you ever goto Wembley to watch England?
No. I'm not an England supporter.
3. Do you ever watch matches on television?
Not entire matches. I do watch a heavily fast forwarded version of Match of the Day most weekends of the season. Perhaps 20 minutes of a typical 75 minute programme.
4. Do you ever travel abroad to watch England?
See 2.
Dunno quite why people seem to have assumed that I'm an England supporter.
Nothing in my original post to say that.
1. How many Premier League games to you goto each season, and where?
33 out of 38 PL matches at rather too many locations to list here. Additionally 10 out of 12 CL matches again at many places along with 2 out of 2 FAC matches.
2. Do you ever goto Wembley to watch England?
No. I'm not an England supporter.
3. Do you ever watch matches on television?
Not entire matches. I do watch a heavily fast forwarded version of Match of the Day most weekends of the season. Perhaps 20 minutes of a typical 75 minute programme.
4. Do you ever travel abroad to watch England?
See 2.
Dunno quite why people seem to have assumed that I'm an England supporter.
Nothing in my original post to say that.
It doesn't matter whether you are an England supporter or not. Your comments were still uncalled for and worng.
You do not have to attend x amount of live matches in any sport to support your national team.
Inf act, there are many people who call themselves supporters when their national side is playing, who cannot and will not go and see the pampered, overpaid, so called stars because they would rather be playing themselves, coaching, refeereing, or watching another team rather than wasting their time and cash putting even more money into hands of millionaires via their debt ridden Premier League clubs.
You do not have to attend x amount of live matches in any sport to support your national team.
Inf act, there are many people who call themselves supporters when their national side is playing, who cannot and will not go and see the pampered, overpaid, so called stars because they would rather be playing themselves, coaching, refeereing, or watching another team rather than wasting their time and cash putting even more money into hands of millionaires via their debt ridden Premier League clubs.
Lampshade
Established Member
The World Cup 98 squad had a good chance and indeed should have beaten Argentina but it's been downhill from there 
kilonewton
Member
Having been at the match, I should be in a good position to comment on whether or not the ref should have see that the ball was over the line, but as England were so bad leading up to the second German goal, i decided that I'd take the opportunity to skip the half time crowds and get my round in at the bar. As FIFA insisted on only serving Budweiser in plastic cups poured from individual bottles / cans, by the time I returned to my seat to discover that I had missed both goals, the one scored and the one not given. My mate said that he saw it was well over from our seats.
I am not an England fan, I was in SA supporting Australia but when we got knocked out (dubious red cards....) my TST meant we had tickets for Germany England. At least the beer after the match was of a better quality!
I am not an England fan, I was in SA supporting Australia but when we got knocked out (dubious red cards....) my TST meant we had tickets for Germany England. At least the beer after the match was of a better quality!
Donny Dave
Established Member
I've just had a thought about the German team ....
Anyone else noticed that a few of them are not actually German?
4. Dennis Aogo - Nigerian
5. Serdar Tasci - Turkish
6. Sami Khedira - Tunisian
8. Mesut Ozil - Turkish
10. Lukas Podulski - Polish
15. Piotr Trochowski - Polish
19. Cacau - Brazilian
20. Jerome Boateng - Ghana (his brother is Kevin Prince Boateng, a Ghana international).
21. Marco Marin - Bosnian
23. Mario Gomez - Spanish
Maybe it's Germany that has the immigration problem, and not the UK
Anyone else noticed that a few of them are not actually German?
4. Dennis Aogo - Nigerian
5. Serdar Tasci - Turkish
6. Sami Khedira - Tunisian
8. Mesut Ozil - Turkish
10. Lukas Podulski - Polish
15. Piotr Trochowski - Polish
19. Cacau - Brazilian
20. Jerome Boateng - Ghana (his brother is Kevin Prince Boateng, a Ghana international).
21. Marco Marin - Bosnian
23. Mario Gomez - Spanish
Maybe it's Germany that has the immigration problem, and not the UK
Ivo
Established Member
The Boateng one is just ridiculous. Ghana are out now (lost on penalties to Uruguay in dramatic circumstances), but can you imagine if they and Germany reached the Final? Two brothers lining up against each other in the World Cup Final!
One way to get a family medal I suppose :roll:
They could also have had Owen Hargreaves, if (a) he had opted to play for them and not England - bad call, Owen - and (b) he was fit...
One way to get a family medal I suppose :roll:
They could also have had Owen Hargreaves, if (a) he had opted to play for them and not England - bad call, Owen - and (b) he was fit...
Geezertronic
Established Member
I've just had a thought about the German team ....
Anyone else noticed that a few of them are not actually German?
4. Dennis Aogo - Nigerian
5. Serdar Tasci - Turkish
6. Sami Khedira - Tunisian
8. Mesut Ozil - Turkish
10. Lukas Podulski - Polish
15. Piotr Trochowski - Polish
19. Cacau - Brazilian
20. Jerome Boateng - Ghana (his brother is Kevin Prince Boateng, a Ghana international).
21. Marco Marin - Bosnian
23. Mario Gomez - Spanish
Maybe it's Germany that has the immigration problem, and not the UK
Don't forget Miroslav Klose who was also born in Poland. There's plenty of examples of dual nationality and sportspeople not representing their countries of birth over the years.
my opinions on England, technology
the england team ARE NOT payed to play for england its entirely voluntary, maybe it shows they are all for money and dont care if theres no money involved they dont give 100%,
on technology what about rugby approach, having a referee watching monitor with replays available to his choice and angle, this involves no more than the tv cameras, and a microphone set as is already all available so not much extra cost involved!
the england team ARE NOT payed to play for england its entirely voluntary, maybe it shows they are all for money and dont care if theres no money involved they dont give 100%,
on technology what about rugby approach, having a referee watching monitor with replays available to his choice and angle, this involves no more than the tv cameras, and a microphone set as is already all available so not much extra cost involved!
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